Value of: Make a Trade with Nashville

[Mazatt]

Perhaps we could move Subban for Kessel and then Turris to you guys for Hamonic/Stone. Would you consider Hamonic available in such deal? These two moves could probably save us enough cap space to sign Duchene (didn't check, but it's close).

I think if we're getting Turris and Stone is remotely wanted by the Preds then he would be moved for him. I'm not sure after two rough years Turris has enough value to get Hamonic from the Flames, but Stone, if he's just a stop gap, would fit in with just one year left on his deal iirc.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I think if we're getting Turris and Stone is remotely wanted by the Preds then he would be moved for him. I'm not sure after two rough years Turris has enough value to get Hamonic from the Flames, but Stone, if he's just a stop gap, would fit in with just one year left on his deal iirc.

To me, I don't think Stone is enough of a step up from our existing bottom-pair stop gaps. I freely confess that I am no expert on Stone or anything. But for $3.5M... while he is probably better than Irwin or Weber, I'm not sure we couldn't sign some leftover veteran UFA for less than $3.5M, like we did with Dan Hamhuis last year, who would serve our purposes equally well. Unless my pro scouts were absolutely raving about Stone, I'd frankly rather trade Turris somewhere for a 4th round pick or something that brought no cap hit back.

 

[Gh24]

What do you have in mind with the prospect/Pick would Michael McLeoud be of interest ?

Quick checkup indicates he needs to shoot more, so a younger version of Johansen? Speedy center with size sounds perfect, but thinking it through, I just realized that if we're unable to sign any of the high profile UFAs then the only logical reason to move Subban would be for a top6 winger, not futures. And if we manage to sign Duchene, McLeod would be stuck behind him and Johansen for several years (Johansen has 5 years remaining if I recall), which would probably be a bit of a waste don't you think. At first I was a bit excited about the idea, but then realized it's probably not gonna work.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

The biggest reason we Preds fans are eager to move Subban/Ellis is that Fabbro is making them expendable in near future. I don't think we should rely on the kid yet, so we could use a stopgap solution on the right side. Someone we could pair with Josi, someone who could be counted to handle the heavy lifting in the defensive zone, someone who we can push to 3rd pair whenever Fabbro is ready to take over. I wouldn't mind paying a 3rd pair dman 4M for a year or two while Fabbro is still on his ELC, but those four years on Severson's contract are a deal-breaker.

Besides, we'd only save just over 2M with this trade (Severson 4.17M + Woods 2.75M = rounded down 6.9M), so this proposal didn't address that issue too well either. Replace Woods with a prospect or another pick and it would make sense if it wasn't for Fabbro and what I described above.

I don't think Severson's years would necessarily be a deal-breaker - I mean, for all we know Fabbro never will live up to our hopes. But at the same time, I think those years mean we have to value him a little less than his value on paper might be, because if we trade Subban we are therefore keeping Ellis, and probably protecting Ekholm/Josi/Ellis for the expansion draft, with the hoped for likelihood of Fabbro also pushing into a protection slot. A lot can change in just 2 years. But even so, it means that when we look at Severson, his term and age are not quite as significant to us as one might otherwise expect, because we wouldn't really be anticipating that we get anything beyond the next 2 seasons out of him.

As for me, I like the speed and what Wood could bring for us on the forecheck. I know he is coming off a year where maybe the shine wore off somewhat for him - I don't follow the Devils closely enough to understand the particulars, maybe he is a little undisciplined or otherwise got into the doghouse because I see him thrown into a lot of trade proposals lately! So maybe I am just a little outdated on my Wood thinking, but I wouldn't mind seeing him instead of a softer less involved player like Jarnkrok on our 3rd/4th line LW, say. The version of Wood I'm thinking of would be more attractive to me than a prospect or pick because I think he could help us right away. I'm more interested in that immediate impact than waiting to see if a guy like McLeod could make the team or not. But like I said, maybe the picture in my head of what Wood can do is a little outdated. If he was a much faster albeit less ornery version of Austin Watson, say, I think that'd be useful in our bottom-6. We need some more players playing balls-out more often, I think.

 

[Mazatt]

To me, I don't think Stone is enough of a step up from our existing bottom-pair stop gaps. I freely confess that I am no expert on Stone or anything. But for $3.5M... while he is probably better than Irwin or Weber, I'm not sure we couldn't sign some leftover veteran UFA for less than $3.5M, like we did with Dan Hamhuis last year, who would serve our purposes equally well. Unless my pro scouts were absolutely raving about Stone, I'd frankly rather trade Turris somewhere for a 4th round pick or something that brought no cap hit back.

Fair enough. I think Stone is definitely a bit above average compared to other stop gap d-men. I was thinking more that because Stone is only around for one more year that offsets getting rid of Turris who has the money/term over him. I also think there'd be a way for the Flames to try and sweeten the deal if they wanted Turris enough, say with like a pick.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Fair enough. I think Stone is definitely a bit above average compared to other stop gap d-men. I was thinking more that because Stone is only around for one more year that offsets getting rid of Turris who has the money/term over him. I also think there'd be a way for the Flames to try and sweeten the deal if they wanted Turris enough, say with like a pick.

Agreed, I would still do it if taking that 1-year cap hit back was the only way - i.e. if no other team out there wanted to take Turris for the 4th. At least as you say it would clear us for the remaining years. But the only reason we trade Turris is because we signed Duchene. And to fit Duchene for this upcoming season we need to clear around $4M in cap space. Turris for Stone only frees up $2.5M for the coming year. So we'd have other work to do. Which might be the best we can do. But a solution that gives us the whole $4M would be more attractive.

 

[Gh24]

I mean, for all we know Fabbro never will live up to our hopes.

Then we protect 7+3 leaving him out. I don't see a big issue here. We still have 3 good or very good defenders in our top4.

The true problem in this scenario occurs if he DOES live up to the expectations. 7+3 or 4+4......If Granlund extends it means he wants to settle down with his family and Poile as a family man wants to protect him. He also has Johansen, Forsberg and Arvidsson. If we haven't signed Duchene, then it's probably whoever we traded Subban for who is left out unprotected. Kessel perhaps? He has another year left at that point, so it's not a big issue losing him. We're gonna lose a defenseman anyway and we need more offense, so what's the difference if it's Subban or Kessel that gets picked. I'm certain Subban is left unprotected if he remains a Pred until the expansion. But if we DO sign Duchene, does he leave one of the forwards out or one of the top4 (assuming Fabbro lives up to his expectations, we would again be left with three good or very good defenders).

I f***ing hate this expansion draft.....

 

[Mazatt]

Agreed, I would still do it if taking that 1-year cap hit back was the only way - i.e. if no other team out there wanted to take Turris for the 4th. At least as you say it would clear us for the remaining years. But the only reason we trade Turris is because we signed Duchene. And to fit Duchene for this upcoming season we need to clear around $4M in cap space. Turris for Stone only frees up $2.5M for the coming year. So we'd have other work to do. Which might be the best we can do. But a solution that gives us the whole $4M would be more attractive.

If need be I'm sure there could be a way where the salary evens out. For example something like Turris and Jarnkrok for Stone and Jankowski. That would probably even up the salaries, though that would probably necessitate the Flames moving a Neal out salary-wise, they still get Turris with the assumption that he bounces back with the Flames.

 

[Gh24]

Agreed, I would still do it if taking that 1-year cap hit back was the only way - i.e. if no other team out there wanted to take Turris for the 4th. At least as you say it would clear us for the remaining years. But the only reason we trade Turris is because we signed Duchene. And to fit Duchene for this upcoming season we need to clear around $4M in cap space. Turris for Stone only frees up $2.5M for the coming year. So we'd have other work to do. Which might be the best we can do. But a solution that gives us the whole $4M would be more attractive.

The reason we'd trade for Stone is that we have traded Subban (or Ellis.......) for a forward. Perhaps that trade covers the rest of the needed cap space

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

The reason we'd trade for Stone is that we have traded Subban (or Ellis.......) for a forward. Perhaps that trade covers the rest of the needed cap space

Perhaps. Let's trade Ellis for Mantha, then. Then it's all covered. No wait, the only reason we want Mantha is some magical WC chemsitry with Turris. Argh. It has to be a game of multidimensional dominoes. And the timing of draft-free agency - trading complicates everything.

Here is what I would like Mr.Poile to accomplish today, for my own personal peace of mind: trade Turris to Columbus for the early right to negotiate with Duchene. Sign Duchene for 8 years. Now we have no cap issue whatsoever and can think freely on the pros and cons of swapping a defenseman for a scoring winger, before the draft and before other teams have capped themselves out in free agency. (Sorry Columbus!)

 

[Gh24]

And after all this Poile trades Bonino for a 4th and signs Duchene. We have our stopgap solution in Subban and Ellis themselves and we revisit the problem next summer after we see how things go with Fabbro and Granlund most of all.

 

[GeauxPreds1]

And after all this Poile trades Bonino for a 4th and signs Duchene. We have our stopgap solution in Subban and Ellis themselves and we revisit the problem next summer after we see how things go with Fabbro and Granlund most of all.

I think when poile was talking changes I think 1 of the top 4 will most like be traded with the addition of someone in free agency. I would most definitely do Ellis for mantha. He would be a proven top 6 with a chance to become even better. 6'5 24 year old that just scored 25 goals in Detroit, yea I would make that trade. Give him a 5 year 23.75 million dollar contract. Saves 1.5 million and gives up a pretty good young guy.
I'm still on the trade Bonino for a pick and sign Sissons to a 2 million a year deal to take his spot. Saves 4.1 million for Duchene and gives turris a year to redeem himself and up his trade value.

 

[Outofbodyinhungary]

Quick checkup indicates he needs to shoot more, so a younger version of Johansen? Speedy center with size sounds perfect, but thinking it through, I just realized that if we're unable to sign any of the high profile UFAs then the only logical reason to move Subban would be for a top6 winger, not futures. And if we manage to sign Duchene, McLeod would be stuck behind him and Johansen for several years (Johansen has 5 years remaining if I recall), which would probably be a bit of a waste don't you think. At first I was a bit excited about the idea, but then realized it's probably not gonna work.

McLeod is a bust there is no way we should trade for him. Not to mention he’s a perennial underachiever.