Sportsnet: MacArthur sounds off on former coach Carlyle

[Pi]

Just as long as Leafs fans remember that our top-6 LW was buried on the last team Carlyle coached. "How bad must he have been playing that the Carlyle would play Jason Blake ahead of him". I'm a fan of Carlyle's, I like what he's doing with this team, but he's not excused from criticism. Neither is Bozak, nor Grabovski. But within that web of activity, Grabovski got shafted and Bozak enjoyed a free ride. Whatever, as long as the guy more important than any one of them (Phil Kessel) is re-signed, I'm happy, even if choosing Bozak over Grabovski had something to do with it

Sorry that I don't blame Carlyle for not playing Lupul in the top six when he was coming off an injury.

Carlyle made a mistake but it's very hard to blame him for that. Lupul was an RW but Anaheim had Ryan and Selanne there, they had Perry on LW on the first line and Blake on the other. It's already tough to come back from an infection/back injury and now Lupul wanted to play LW to stay in the top 6. Carlyle made a judgement call and got it wrong. Did he not admit he was wrong?

At least Lupul was trying to make a comeback from injury to the top 6. What excuse did Grabovski have?

He was given EVERY chance to succeed to start the season but he just couldn't put it together.

People say Grabovski wasn't put in a role to succeed...Don't we want our top two centers to be good defensively? Bozak is better defensively than Grabovski and he puts up about 10 points less than him. I'll take that.

 

[hockeyes]

Doesn't the fact that he came back after a being a healthy scratch in the playoffs and scored 2 goals kind of confirms Carlyle was right?

"His style sucks, it worked on me but that doesn't matter"

I cheered for this guy when I seen him in a pre-season game but now I couldn't care less about him. Grabo I understand, he was given a very short stick, played with effort and made his comments at a very emotional time. In this case there is no emotion left about the situation (at least there shouldn't be if you pretend to be a professional) so no respect for that.

Sounds more like he was upset he wasn't given more minutes despite not earning them. The good news for him though is the lack of depth on Ottawa guarantees more ice time regardless of how hard he plays.

 

[Kessely Snipes]

Not going to lie, lost a bit of respect for Mac after reading that. No reason for him to disclose that. He was pushed down by players playing better. Simple as that.

 

[mikebel111*]

Carlyle forced Grabo into a role he shouldn't have been in and set him up for a bad season.

wrong. He was the 2nd line centre for a lot of the season. Than he didn't perform so randy changed his role. why didn't grabo perform as 2nd line C? grabo can only blame himself. he put grabo in a shutdown role after grabo failed as 2nd line C.

 

[TheProspector]

I think we're getting an indication on why Clarke has played for 4 teams in the past 6 years.

 

[hockeymistress]

Chiming in from Anaheim, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I saw this coach a long time.

It seems like some players would be in his "doghouse," (like Lupul, Bobby Ryan).

Others were his "pets" and could do no wrong (Getzlaf).

Players that were in the doghouse were put into roles that were not fit for them (almost with spite?), or they hated, and they underperformed as a result or sulked, and were further punished with even less ice time. Hence, even more underperforming. Downward spiral. Rinse repeat.

Players not in his doghouse were rewarded with more ice time and the positions they excelled at. The team started to get divided. Veterans were exempt from doghouse/non doghouse.

No one could figure out how certain players got into the doghouse. Maybe they "dogged it" in practices, gave him attitude, whatever. But one thing is - once in the doghouse, there was NO way out.

He was very foul and irritable and the press did not like him.

 

[mikebel111*]

I always liked Mac. I think Carlyle needs to work on some things of his own. The list of players whose value have been destroyed by Carlyle is growing and it's going to catch up to the Leafs

no it's not. grabo and mac didn't perform.
but yeah randy should be fired

 

[Crispy Crust]

Sorry that I don't blame Carlyle for not playing Lupul in the top six when he was coming off an injury.

Carlyle made a mistake but it's very hard to blame him for that. Lupul was an RW but Anaheim had Ryan and Selanne there, they had Perry on LW on the first line and Blake on the other. It's already tough to come back from an infection/back injury and now Lupul wanted to play LW to stay in the top 6. Carlyle made a judgement call and got it wrong. Did he not admit he was wrong?

At least Lupul was trying to make a comeback from injury to the top 6. What excuse did Grabovski have?

He was given EVERY chance to succeed to start the season but he just couldn't put it together.

People say Grabovski wasn't put in a role to succeed...Don't we want our top two centers to be good defensively? Bozak is better defensively than Grabovski and he puts up about 10 points less than him. I'll take that.

That's not true at all.

 

[ULF_55]

Chiming in from Anaheim, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I saw this coach a long time.

It seems like some players would be in his "doghouse," (like Lupul, Bobby Ryan).

Others were his "pets" and could do no wrong (Getzlaf).

Players that were in the doghouse were put into roles that were not fit for them (almost with spite?), or they hated, and they underperformed as a result or sulked, and were further punished with even less ice time. Hence, even more underperforming. Downward spiral. Rinse repeat.

Players not in his doghouse were rewarded with more ice time and the positions they excelled at. The team started to get divided. Veterans were exempt from doghouse/non doghouse.

No one could figure out how certain players got into the doghouse. Maybe they "dogged it" in practices, gave him attitude, whatever. But one thing is - once in the doghouse, there was NO way out.

He was very foul and irritable and the press did not like him.

Well, he wasn't fired because he was doing a good job.

 

[Pi]

Randy Carlyle:

2nd highest playoff win percentage amongst active coaches (Only Babcock is better).
9th highest in points per game in the regular season. Considering that 16 teams make the playoffs and Carlyle outside of 1-2 seasons has coached teams with average defense, that's remarkable.

So with all due respect...forgive me if I think that our coach knows what he's doing. I don't agree with everything he does (like stupidly playing Kostka and Holzer above Liles/Gardiner) but I don't see how HE is to blame because some players can't succeed under him. That's their fault, not his.

If MacArthur doesn't like being told of the mistakes he makes every time he comes to bench...here's a very bright idea: DON'T MAKE MISTAKES or at least try to limit your mistakes.

 

[hockeygeek]

wrong. He was the 2nd line centre for a lot of the season. Than he didn't perform so randy changed his role. why didn't grabo perform as 2nd line C? grabo can only blame himself. he put grabo in a shutdown role after grabo failed as 2nd line C.

You don't actually believe that Carlyle had nothing to do with it do you? Carlyle screwed the Leafs big time with how he handled Grabbo

 

[mikebel111*]

I think we're getting an indication on why Clarke has played for 4 teams in the past 6 years.

agreed. I likes him as a player and person but now,
Who cares if he left? he didn't perform so better players pushed him down. Not sure why he is complaining here

 

[marquee]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...hur-sounds-off-on-former-coach-randy-carlyle/

Funny part is the people that are complaining are the guys that got their spot stolen by other players.

I don't recall getzlaf or perry losing spots.

Won't be long before this team shuts him out.

 

[mikebel111*]

You don't actually believe that Carlyle had nothing to do with it do you? Carlyle screwed the Leafs big time with how he handled Grabbo

how? grabo didn't perform so he bumped him down. he was 2nd line C than his role changed because he didn't perform.

 

[marquee]

wrong. He was the 2nd line centre for a lot of the season. Than he didn't perform so randy changed his role. why didn't grabo perform as 2nd line C? grabo can only blame himself. he put grabo in a shutdown role after grabo failed as 2nd line C.

Wrong it's a fact he spent a majority of his time in the defensive end. He was used as a def forward alongside kulemin in a shutdown role.

That can't be disputed there are stats that back this up. For whatever reason he wasn't given much PP time or offensive end starts.

Grabo for some reason was in the doghouse from the start. Don't matter now tho he's gone

 

[bunjay]

Randy Carlyle:

2nd highest playoff win percentage amongst active coaches (Only Babcock is better).
9th highest in points per game in the regular season. Considering that 16 teams make the playoffs and Carlyle outside of 1-2 seasons has coached teams with average defense, that's remarkable.

So with all due respect...forgive me if I think that our coach knows what he's doing. I don't agree with everything he does (like stupidly playing Kostka and Holzer above Liles/Gardiner) but I don't see how HE is to blame because some players can't succeed under him. That's their fault, not his.

If MacArthur doesn't like being told of the mistakes he makes every time he comes to bench...here's a very bright idea: DON'T MAKE MISTAKES or at least try to limit your mistakes.

Carlyle's teams have only made it past the first round of the playoffs three times. Out of seven full seasons. Most of his playoff wins came with one super stacked team. Do you think he taught Pronger how to dominate the ice? DId he teach Giguere Conn Smythe goaltending?

Are you even being serious?

 

[Pi]

Chiming in from Anaheim, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I saw this coach a long time.

It seems like some players would be in his "doghouse," (like Lupul, Bobby Ryan).

Others were his "pets" and could do no wrong (Getzlaf).

Players that were in the doghouse were put into roles that were not fit for them (almost with spite?), or they hated, and they underperformed as a result or sulked, and were further punished with even less ice time. Hence, even more underperforming. Downward spiral. Rinse repeat.

Players not in his doghouse were rewarded with more ice time and the positions they excelled at. The team started to get divided. Veterans were exempt from doghouse/non doghouse.

No one could figure out how certain players got into the doghouse. Maybe they "dogged it" in practices, gave him attitude, whatever. But one thing is - once in the doghouse, there was NO way out.

He was very foul and irritable and the press did not like him.

I value your opinion but I don't think any coach in the league would purposely put a player in a position to fail.

If Bobby Ryan was put in a position to fail, why did he not turn it around under a very offensive minded coach in Boudreau?

Bobby Ryan ---> 71 points during the last full season under Carlyle. The year after that? 57 points under Carlyle/Boudreau. The last year? 53 point pace..

Bobby Ryan got traded because he failed to perform under Carlyle AND Boudreau. Bobby can blame anyone and everyone he wants but the reason why he's not in Anaheim right now is only his fault.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

He shouldn't be excused of criticism just as much as he shouldn't be excused from the benefit of the doubt.

Carlyle buried Lupul because he was a different player back then, possibly attitude problems and a smug attitude towards Carlyle's criticism? The guy was traded a few times, after all.

Carlyle buried Grabovski because when he wasn't scoring he wasn't otherwise useful for the team. Other players such as Kadri and Bozak simply outplayed him in other areas?

Carlyle keeps Bozak on the top line because him and Kessel simply have experience playing together and their skill-sets compliment each other well, plus Bozak is our best face-off guy and that is very helpful when starting him in the offensive zone with Kessel?

All speculation, obviously, but how can you look at Carlyle's record and not give him some benefit of the doubt on these roster decisions he makes?

For Chris Pronger. 99.9% of the league could be traded for a healthy, prime Pronger, & back then Lupul already had 28, 20, and 25 goal seasons under his belt so, again, it was Carlyle not giving his player the benefit of the doubt. Like I've said, I like Carlyle and, overall, think hes done a good job, but hes not perfect.

 

[Pi]

Carlyle's teams have only made it past the first round of the playoffs three times. Out of seven full seasons. Most of his playoff wins came with one super stacked team. Do you think he taught Pronger how to dominate the ice? DId he teach Giguere Conn Smythe goaltending?

Are you even being serious?

Are you seriously saying that? Good players are going to play good despite ANY coach.

You think Bylsma taught Crosby how to be a superstar? You think Claude Julien taught Bergeron how to be a Selke winner? You think he taught Zdeno Chara how to be a beast? You think Quennville taught Toews how to be a leader? You think Quennville taught taught Kane how to be a playmaker?

Such a stupid stupid stupid (yes, I had to say it three times) argument.

Is it a crime to win the Cup with a good team?

There are MANY good teams over the years that are PERFECT in the regular season but could not win the Cup.

The Sabres that won the President's Trophy were a great team from top to bottom but FAILED to win the Cup.

Babcock didn't teach Datsyuk and Zetterberg how to play good. They are good players because of their hard work.

 

[egd27]

Why exactly do we care what an ottawa senator thinks about Randy Carlyle?

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided."
- Casey Stengel

 

[DD03]

If MacArthur thinks he's going to get praised every time he comes off the ice, he needs to grow up. You're getting paid millions of dollars to perform, if you're not going to perform expect criticism.. It's your JOB to PRODUCE, you don't need to be praised for doing your job.

 

[TheBigThree]

Mac and grabo did absolutely nothing for the team last season, that also being the first season we where in the playoffs in a long time. Previous seasons where they both played reasonably the team was a bottom feeder. Glad mac is gone because he's always been a mediocre scrub in my eyes.

 

[hockeygeek]

how? grabo didn't perform so he bumped him down. he was 2nd line C than his role changed because he didn't perform.

Randy is a great coach but he's lousy at player management. When good players suddenly become untradeable assets it hurts the franchise. Randy needs to manage the players better. We should have been able to get something back in a deal for Grabbo.

 

[marquee]

I know.
but he wasn't scoring. and Grabo kept saying "you know if I had more ice time, and not in a checking role I'd have been better."

he was given that opportunity and had 2 assists. (i'm just using Grabo's logic here to make my point. He was given plenty of chances and didn't make the most of them).

you know what this argument re: Carlyle is reminding me off. the boards trying to decide what's better for the team last year's playoffs, Montreal, Washington or Boston.

most people wanted Montreal (obvious reasons)
some people were scared of Washington
and no one wanted Boston because it would be too difficult. (some did, but I mean, majority wise).

But we're going to remember/learn more/grow more from playing Boston last year than we would have, playing either Montreal or Washington. I'm going to say the same thing re; Carlyle. Players may hate him/not like him, and whatever - but if at the end of the day (even if it's not with Carlyle and it's down the road, they realise what he was trying to achieve for them and the team).

What example? He was used exclusively in a checking role. It don't matter if he got more PT.

There's just you much opinions here and they are baseless.

If I read all this with no prior knowledge I would think grabovski wqs given a chance to put up points.

 

[Pi]

Randy is a great coach but he's lousy at player management. When good players suddenly become untradeable assets it hurts the franchise. Randy needs to manage the players better. We should have been able to get something back in a deal for Grabbo.

I really don't think that would have made a difference. Grabovski couldn't be traded because we signed him to an AWFUL contract like Komisarek, Clarkson (love the player, hate the contract), and Liles.

If we took back salary we still wouldn't have gotten anything good. It was best to use the compliance buy out.