M.A. Fleury a Hall of Famer?

[PensPlz]

no

you are not a hall of famer if you were considered a teams weak link for years

 

[Rusty Razor]

How many goalies have 400 wins and are not in the HOF? How many goalies with 3 cups and 4 SC finals are not in the HOF? How many goalies presently playing have won cups? Are they playing better than MAF? Rask has exactly how many cups? How about Bob in Columbus? How may play off series has he won? How about the goalie in Nashville. He was removed from two games in the SC finals. Do they sound like HOF goalies to you. King Henry? WTF has he ever won? First ballot HOF. No question.

If playoff success is your argument, you might want to look at the 4 runs from 2010-2013 for Fleury. There was a point where he was in argument for the worst playoff goalie in NHL history. He turned it around, but he was a clown with a terrible lowlight reel for a good stretch.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

He’s a compiler with 3 cups. He’s never been nominated for Vezina (maybe this year). If he stays healthy he may reach 650 or more wins, which would make it difficult. The problem is if you let him in what about other compilers.

 

[MikeK]

A lot of people have their opinions on the topic. I don't see him as a HOFer but I'm sure he'll have some worthy stats when his career is over. I've just never viewed him as a top goalie in the game. He benefited from playing on deadly teams and was a passenger more often than not.

 

[beowulf]

He's just never been a top goalie in any season. Not in my Hall

Thankfully it's not your Hall.

 

[beowulf]

Doesn't have the individual stats to be a HOFer. Add a Vezina and a few more Vezina caliber seasons and he's a shoe-in.

How does he not have the individual stats?

 

[MeowLeafs]

Despite the 3 cups, unless he has a couple career years coming up, I would only put him in the hall of very good.

 

[KCC]

I think at 500 wins he’s in. Even if he were to retire tomorrow, he’d probably get in eventually. It would just take some time haha

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

if he's lucky he'll get to the HHOVG

2 of his Cups were as a backup. No different than someone calling Tuukka Rask a Cup winning goalie

 

[PensandCaps]

if he's lucky he'll get to the HHOVG

2 of his Cups were as a backup. No different than someone calling Tuukka Rask a Cup winning goalie

Except Rask is a much better career goalie than Fleury is.

Also a much better playoff goalie too.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

Hrm. There aren't really any Vezina top three finishes but he's certainly reliable enough to backstop a good team to the Cup (and win it). He's doing quite well with the Vegas Golden Knights, so he takes them to the third round (or, dare we hope, the finals?) he'll certainly get the sympathy votes necessary for a good look when he retires.
I'd say he does get in, but in a "down the road" sort of way, not a lock of any sort at the moment.

 

[Canucks1096]

In order to be a Hall of Fame goalie on Hfboards criteria, you need 350+ wins, personal hardware and a Stanley Cup. Joseph and Luongo don't have the hardware and the Cup. Fleury doesn't have the hardware. Lundqvist and Miller don't have the Cup. Quick doesn't have the hardware, Ward might not get the wins.

You might never see another goalie in the Hall of fame, unless Bobrovsky, Holtby, Price or Rask win a Cup and another hundred games before they're done. Rinne could win a Cup this year but he still wouldn't have the Vezina, right? That's the standard, right?

Quick has a Smythe

 

[BlueLooksGood]

How does he not have the individual stats?

He's only had two full seasons where he's posted a .920+ save percentage. His career average is .913. This is an era where goalies are pushing .930. He's only been nominated for Vezina twice and each of them aren't particularly high (7th place in 11-12 and 8th place in 10-11).

Sorry but I don't think his stats are impressive.

 

[gertbfrobe16]

400 wins...likely to eclipse well over 500 wins before retiring
3 cups

Hall of Fame worthy?

yes right after he beats the pens in the sc final this year thus proving he was the real mvp

 

[Sheppy]

if he's lucky he'll get to the HHOVG

2 of his Cups were as a backup. No different than someone calling Tuukka Rask a Cup winning goalie

Rask is twice the goalie Fleury was.

 

[CascadiaPuck]

I think it's a very interesting question and I have a hard time making a guess on whether MAF gets in simply because goalies are handled so differently from other players. When I take into account Osgood and look at goalies drafted before the 04/05 lockout, it's quite tough. I do have Lundqvist and Luongo ahead of him, but maybe all three (and Osgood) should be in? And what about a guy like Tim Thomas?

For reference, it looks like the HHOF has inducted 6 goalies in the last 25 years:
1993: William John "Billy" Smith
2003: Grant Fuhr
2006: Patrick Roy
2011: Ed Belfour
2014: Dominik Hasek
2016: Rogatien "Rogie" Vachon

Obviously Brodeur gets in as soon as he's eligible. So call it 7 guys in 26 years (roughly coming to 1 goalie every 4 years).

If that rate is the precedent, then I can't see all five of Thomas, Lundqvist, Luongo, Osgood, and Fleury making it - and it gets murkier still with guys like Quick, Price, etc. progressing in their careers as well.

Gun to my head, I would bet that Lundqvist, Thomas, and Luongo get in, while Fleury and Osgood do not. (Thomas is particularly tough because his [amazing] NHL career was so brief.)

 

[66871]

I think post-expansion Giacomin and Cheevers are probably the two most marginal goaltenders to go into the hall -- and Fleury has already eclipsed both.

I get the accumulator argument and I'm personally uncertain how I feel about accumulators. But there is an argument that in order to accumulate, you have to stay in the league.

If he hits 500/80 in terms of his regular season and playoff win totals, the guy is probably a lock. Especially if his combined total is 600+. Unless Luongo has some high-test aged-defying ointment, only Roy and Brodeur will have hit 600 total wins by the time MAF retires.

As imperfect as win totals are, go over to hockey-reference and take a look at how strongly they correlate to hall induction at 450+ RS and 70+ PO.

 

[PensPlz]

if he's lucky he'll get to the HHOVG

2 of his Cups were as a backup. No different than someone calling Tuukka Rask a Cup winning goalie

1 cup as the man. 1 cup as a backup. 1 cup as a 50/50 participate who played incredibly for us and is continuing to do so presently in Vegas.

But thanks for your input. Sorry Rask sucks now, though.

 

[gertbfrobe16]

He's only had two full seasons where he's posted a .920+ save percentage. His career average is .913. This is an era where goalies are pushing .930. He's only been nominated for Vezina twice and each of them aren't particularly high (7th place in 11-12 and 8th place in 10-11).

Sorry but I don't think his stats are impressive.

.913 is pretty darn good on a team that depends on the pp and out scoring other teams to win games

 

[66871]

To add to my above. I do get a chuckle out of people who say "It's that Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Very Good". Fame and Very Good are not part of the same measurement. And it's why guys who look like they should be out are in and vice verse. IMO, Tim Thomas should not go in because he did not have a sustained career. To turn a phrase, it's not the Hall of Temporarily Excellent.

In 20 years, outside of their respective fanbases, more fans will remember MAF than TT. So while it's certainly legitimate to say Thomas was a better goalie than MAF, that might not translate to better Hall credentials.

 

[TheMule93]

Nope

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

yes right after he beats the pens in the sc final this year thus proving he was the real mvp

LOL he was a total choker, i can only imagine the nerves and anxiety he would have against his former team

it would make his 2012 playoff performance look good

 

[CascadiaPuck]

To add to my above. I do get a chuckle out of people who say "It's that Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Very Good". Fame and Very Good are not part of the same measurement. And it's why guys who look like they should be out are in and vice verse. IMO, Tim Thomas should not go in because he did not have a sustained career. To turn a phrase, it's not the Hall of Temporarily Excellent.

In 20 years, outside of their respective fanbases, more fans will remember MAF than TT. So while it's certainly legitimate to say Thomas was a better goalie than MAF, that might not translate to better Hall credentials.

I find myself in the really weird position of advocating for Tim Thomas, but - with all due respect - I disagree. Thomas had two Vezinas and a Conn Smythe and, while his NHL career was short, his "temporary excellence" spanned several seasons. Plus he has interesting hardware outside of the NHL too.

His career will be remember and discussed outside of Boston because it progressed so oddly, it burned very brightly over a multi-year period, and he will be the first person cited when people talk about the Cup that team won. Not trying to diminish Fleury - because he's a heckuva player - but he will be remembered as a significant contributor among many on the Crosby/Malkin-led Penguins, which featured other amazing talents (including another great goalie).

I can see an argument for MAF over Thomas for getting into the HHOF based on Thomas simply having too few years in the NHL (not that I necessarily agree). But I would bet more people will talk about and pick apart Thomas's career a couple decades from now than Fleury's. (This assumes that Fleury doesn't do something to stand out with the remainder of his career, of course. Which would change things and definitely be great to see!).

 

[NJ DevLolz]

I know there were no ties, but 500 wins has still only been done twice, probably thrice by the time MAF is up (Lundqvist)

I don't see how you keep him out.

What's his highest Vezina finish?

 

[Machinehead]

What's his highest Vezina finish?

Shit if I know.

I'm not even saying he deserves it, I just think he sneaks in.