Funny, no one was waiting until the end of the season to criticize the kid and declare Calgary had "won" the trade. Should we just shut this thread down until May?
LW Sven Baertschi (2011, 13th, CGY; traded to VAN) II
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Funny, no one was waiting until the end of the season to criticize the kid and declare Calgary had "won" the trade. Should we just shut this thread down until May?
Probably should shut it down until he retires as you can't say who won he trade until then.
Right now, it's looking like a great trade though. Sven has been playing solid two way hockey for a while now and the recent spurt of points is simply a reward for hard play that started a while ago. Very impressed with his development this year. He's a much more complete hockey player in both ends and isn't afraid to go to the dirty areas for goals.
Recently impressed with kid's physicality as much as by his points...he's actually becoming a bit of a pain in the rear end for defenders down low....initiating contact and separating bigger guys from the puck....a sea change from earlier in the year.
Probably should shut it down until he retires as you can't say who won he trade until then.
Right now, it's looking like a great trade though. Sven has been playing solid two way hockey for a while now and the recent spurt of points is simply a reward for hard play that started a while ago. Very impressed with his development this year. He's a much more complete hockey player in both ends and isn't afraid to go to the dirty areas for goals.
I mean I do agree that declaring a "winner" will be premature for years until Andersson is either in the NHL or a bust, but I have no problem with discussing the ups and downs of both players in the meantime. And honestly I don't really care how Calgary's pick turns out since it doesn't affect us all that much, so if Baertschi becomes a useful middle 6 scorer for us and Andersson a useful player for them then cool beans. No one said both teams can't be winners with this trade.
Honour Over Glory
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Hey, Sven was a guy that was too good for us to get for Simon Despres supposedly, so not sure why I would give a rat's rear about winning a trade between two teams I really couldn't give a **** about.
In any case, you can't say any team clearly won a trade yet since the guy the Flames got was just drafted last year (Rasmus Andersson - kid is no slouch). For now, Canucks are merely winning by making him into a useful NHL'er.
Nice to see when that pans out.
At least Calgary didn't Oiler his development to hell and moved him to a team that gave him more of a fighting chance.
Anyways, here's more on that Andersson kid.
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=86137
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/rasmus-andersson/
Honour Over Glory
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And ding ding ding...you find the right way to look at the deal.
Flames got a stud of a defenseman to add to their crazy good stable of players and Canucks found a top 9 depth player that can chip in and is finding some confidence.
I'm just thinking if the Pens ever pulled the deal for Sven for Simon...we'd probably lose because Bylsma/Johnston would make him cry and go back to Europe and we'd be in the same situation as right now, no Svelte Simon.
Caged Great
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The Flames have a surplus of forwards, especially wingers, coming through the organization. They did not have any high quality defenders. Baertschi was moved for Andersson and it also indirectly helped with the Hamilton trade as well because they had the opportunity to move two 2nds and still have one remain (before they traded up and snagged Kylington as well)
Taking from an area of strength to address an area of weakness is pretty much GM'ing 101. If Sven helps Vancouver as a bridge forward for their inevitable rebuild, good for them.
Taking from an area of strength to address an area of weakness is pretty much GM'ing 101. If Sven helps Vancouver as a bridge forward for their inevitable rebuild, good for them.
TheCLAM
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Everything aside the whole idea of "trade" is for both parties to gain. This is why organizations trade or they would be completely self-sufficient. The Flames traded away a former top pick that has not lived up to his potential, giving a second for a shot at a top 6 forward. In this situation it's a very real possibility that a 23 year old forward could turn into a regular top 6 player. It's typical for players to reach their peak years in their mid-20's, which Sven is approaching.
The Flames cut ties with an unhappy, under-whelming, high-potential prospect, and acquire a good prospect in R.A. Seems like a win/win
In terms of technicality of the deal Sven B. was traded for a 2nd round pick that turned into Andersson, not straight up. Scouting is differentiated from team to team, therefore, it is not proper to assume that Andersson would be a Canuck.
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Lunatik
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I am not one of those people, but how is it not a certified win for Calgary? He had made it pretty clear to Treliving he wouldn't be re-signing with the Flames; meaning he would have played in Europe until he was a UFA. The fact the Flames got a 2nd for him is most definitely a win.
Now that said, if he breaks out it could be a win for both teams.
TheCLAM
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Common player tactic to be traded, this never happens with top-picks. Calgary sees a diminishing returns of scale on it's assets and moves fast to accommodate a deal. In terms of getting value back, Calgary did very well. The only top-picks that can "threaten" to walk are NCAA college free agents. Also prospects out of Europe would refuse to sign an ELC', thus hitting free agency in 4 years (which has yet to happen)
However, I don't believe he would of walked for nothing. Typically GM's want to see players grow even if it is not necessarily with their selected organization.
Lunatik
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Who knows what Sven would have done but IIRC under the new CBA if you are unsigned RFA playing in Europe you become a UFA after just 2 years and 2 years in Europe IMO would have been good for him.
TheCLAM
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I doubt it. The learning curve in the NHL is much higher than any European league as a young player. There is not much of a point to leave for Europe when these are prime years to carve out an NHL career. If he busts, he can have a successful career in the Europe in his late 20's+
He has the chance to be apart of Vancouver's new emerging core with many vets reaching their shelf-life. If you have accomplished nothing coming back in two years isn't going to make a difference salary/contract wise. If he comes back at 25 he's likely to only sign a one year deal and pray to god everything goes right.
Lunatik
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Except he likely would not have been in the NHL with Calgary, so it's not NHL vs. Europe had Calgary not traded him, it would be AHL w/ some call-ups vs. Europe
Is Baertschi even a prospect anymore? I think he has established himself on the Canucks roster and has played more than enough games.
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