LW Quentin Musty - Sudbury Wolves, OHL (2023, 26th, SJS)

[one2gamble]

We need Musty to just keep trending up.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

31 points in his last 9 games but..
17 points have come from 3 games... (23 in 5)

2 points shy of 100 points.

 

[CanadienShark]

31 points in his last 9 games but..
17 points have come from 3 games... (23 in 5)

2 points shy of 100 points.

Disappointment.

 

[majormajor]

I said before that I thought Musty should stay in the OHL until he rips that league a new a-hole, well I think he's doing that now.

 

[Evgeny Oliker]

So what happens next season?

Is he eligible to play in AHL?

 

[danyhabsfan]

So what happens next season?

Is he eligible to play in AHL?

CHL or NHL

 

[coooldude]

Sharks boards are talking about options:
1. Stay in the OHL. seems counterproductive but has happened before.
2. 9 game tryout, AHL conditioning stint (apparently legal), back to OHL, WJC, finish the season, join sharks as soon as possible.
3. Carlsson treatment in the NHL. play 40-60 games in limited minutes, get him into the real pros, start working on good habits, keep him healthy, help him develop strength and endurance.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Sharks boards are talking about options:
1. Stay in the OHL. seems counterproductive but has happened before.
2. 9 game tryout, AHL conditioning stint (apparently legal), back to OHL, WJC, finish the season, join sharks as soon as possible.
3. Carlsson treatment in the NHL. play 40-60 games in limited minutes, get him into the real pros, start working on good habits, keep him healthy, help him develop strength and endurance.

I like 3 for him…. Don’t think chl does much for him at this point

 

[Arizonan God]

Musty
Ritchie
Cowan

At picks 26, 27, and 28. Looks like some great value at the lower end of the first round. Pretty surprising considering the conventional wisdom is that OHL guys are overvalued.

 

[majormajor]

Sharks boards are talking about options:
1. Stay in the OHL. seems counterproductive but has happened before.
2. 9 game tryout, AHL conditioning stint (apparently legal), back to OHL, WJC, finish the season, join sharks as soon as possible.
3. Carlsson treatment in the NHL. play 40-60 games in limited minutes, get him into the real pros, start working on good habits, keep him healthy, help him develop strength and endurance.

Unless I'm misremembering the process, I think you can send him to the WJC and then choose to bring him back to the NHL after that, without having Musty report to the OHL?

So there's really no need to commit to how the second half of the season would be handled. Just start the year with 9 NHL + 5 AHL + WJC and then you have to make a decision between OHL and NHL.

9 NHL games in the first five weeks of the season could be kind of like the Leo Carlsson plan as well, so I don't know if those are super distinct options.

Edit: Actually plenty of clubs don't mind forgoing the slide with ELCs, and will play rookies 10 games or more. The more important restriction is the 41 game rule, because that would cause you to lose an entire RFA year. Losing an ELC year doesn't matter as much, it's not like the Sharks can't pay Musty an RFA contract in 3 years.

Musty
Ritchie
Cowan

At picks 26, 27, and 28. Looks like some great value at the lower end of the first round. Pretty surprising considering the conventional wisdom is that OHL guys are overvalued.

For years it was the case that the OHL was picked clean by the time you got to the end of the 1st round, steals were much more likely to come from leagues in other countries. But I think teams have maybe overcorrected for that at this point.

 

[bert]

Sharks boards are talking about options:
1. Stay in the OHL. seems counterproductive but has happened before.
2. 9 game tryout, AHL conditioning stint (apparently legal), back to OHL, WJC, finish the season, join sharks as soon as possible.
3. Carlsson treatment in the NHL. play 40-60 games in limited minutes, get him into the real pros, start working on good habits, keep him healthy, help him develop strength and endurance.

They should keep him out of that losing culture as long as they can. Another year in the OHL and playing WJC winning lots of hockey games.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Musty
Ritchie
Cowan

At picks 26, 27, and 28. Looks like some great value at the lower end of the first round. Pretty surprising considering the conventional wisdom is that OHL guys are overvalued.

Ya PV said he wanted to trade up from our 2nd pick to grab someone…. I assume it’s 1 of the 3 you just listed…. But the teams in late 1st wernt interested in moving picks

 

[coooldude]

They should keep him out of that losing culture as long as they can. Another year in the OHL and playing WJC winning lots of hockey games.

Losing culture is overrated. The sharks this year are terrible but seldom do they fail to show up and compete hard. I've been impressed with the attitudes despite the record. And anyway, every rebuild, successful or not, goes through a period where everyone is hand wringing about the losing culture, and it's typically just noise. Orgs can have losing management, sure, but I don't think the teams in the room can develop persistent losing culture. At any rate there's little conclusive evidence for it over many seasons.

I'd be far more concerned about Musty developing bad habits from playing below his level for too long.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

No denying the skill, and he's a treat to watch (along with Dvorsky) nightly in Sudbury. The team is stacked with offensive firepower, but struggles mightly defensively and especially in net. There's a reason a team this skilled is mired in 5th place in an average Eastern Conference.

That being said he needs to work on his defensive game and commitment/effort shift to shift. Ugly and untimely turnovers were a bit of an issue as well.

The Sharks simply need to evaluate where they want him to work out these issues......the OHL or NHL/AHL (conditioning).

 

[ryan callahan]

No denying the skill, and he's a treat to watch (along with Dvorsky) nightly in Sudbury. The team is stacked with offensive firepower, but struggles mightly defensively and especially in net. There's a reason a team this skilled is mired in 5th place in an average Eastern Conference.

That being said he needs to work on his defensive game and commitment/effort shift to shift. Ugly and untimely turnovers were a bit of an issue as well.

The Sharks simply need to evaluate where they want him to work out these issues......the OHL or NHL/AHL (conditioning).

Unpopular opinion but this is why I think Musty could benefit from another year in the O without Dvorsky (who probably dips back in Europe). Most night these guys play complete run and gun and allow crazy amounts of goals. Want to see Musty become a dominant possession monster before turning to pros.

 

[bert]

Losing culture is overrated. The sharks this year are terrible but seldom do they fail to show up and compete hard. I've been impressed with the attitudes despite the record. And anyway, every rebuild, successful or not, goes through a period where everyone is hand wringing about the losing culture, and it's typically just noise. Orgs can have losing management, sure, but I don't think the teams in the room can develop persistent losing culture. At any rate there's little conclusive evidence for it over many seasons.

I'd be far more concerned about Musty developing bad habits from playing below his level for too long.

Dont agree at all on any level. The sens out play teams more than half their games and are absolute losers. They dont know how to win and they accept losing. Players getting used to losing is worse for development. There are reasons that teams with winning cultures take longer to develop players. Its been proven for decades in this sport. It almost never hurts a player to take your time developing them, when players are rushed it happens way more often.

The largest fallacy is your last statement. He needs to win at that level, be the man go all the way that's better for development than anything.

 

[ryan callahan]

Dont agree at all on any level. The sens out play teams more than half their games and are absolute losers. They dont know how to win and they accept losing. Players getting used to losing is worse for development. There are reasons that teams with winning cultures take longer to develop players. Its been proven for decades in this sport. It almost never hurts a player to take your time developing them, when players are rushed it happens way more often.

The largest fallacy is your last statement. He needs to win at that level, be the man go all the way that's better for development than anything.

The day Chabot and Giroux go the Sens will be twice as good mark my words. Not random that nearly every team these guys have been on have been average at best or absolutely terrible.

 

[coooldude]

Dont agree at all on any level. The sens out play teams more than half their games and are absolute losers. They dont know how to win and they accept losing. Players getting used to losing is worse for development. There are reasons that teams with winning cultures take longer to develop players. Its been proven for decades in this sport. It almost never hurts a player to take your time developing them, when players are rushed it happens way more often.

The largest fallacy is your last statement. He needs to win at that level, be the man go all the way that's better for development than anything.

Maybe this is pedantic, but: 1) one example does not an argument prove. The Sens are arguably a losing franchise/ownership group, not because losing attitudes have been passed down in the player ranks from season to season for the past 20 years, and 2) it's not a "fallacy" to have a different opinion. Point out the logical flaw and we can discuss whether it's a fallacy.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Not random that nearly every team these guys have been on have been average at best or absolutely terrible.

Absolutely not true.

 

[ryan callahan]

Absolutely not true.

When is the last time Ottawa has been a contender? What is the properly last contending Flyers team? 2010-11 when they still had Richards and Carter? A couple of decent Flyers teams in the mid 2010s? That's pretty bad for a guy that was considered a top 5 center in the game at one point. Giroux missed the playoffs a whopping 8 times in his career and got bounced in the 1st round an additional 4 times. Chabot has never even played a playoff minute.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Not Chabots fault he came into an absolute dog shit organization like Ottawa. One player doesn't make a team at the NHL level.

Though it looks like with proper ownership and new leadership (Staios) they'll turn it around.

Both guys won QMJHL Championships with them leading the way. Won WJC, World Cup and World Championship golds.

Anyways, we are completely off topic (Musty). So I'll leave this topic of conversation.

 

[Cas]

Dont agree at all on any level. The sens out play teams more than half their games and are absolute losers. They dont know how to win and they accept losing. Players getting used to losing is worse for development. There are reasons that teams with winning cultures take longer to develop players. Its been proven for decades in this sport. It almost never hurts a player to take your time developing them, when players are rushed it happens way more often.

The largest fallacy is your last statement. He needs to win at that level, be the man go all the way that's better for development than anything.

I think what that means is that the Senators aren't actually very good, or they have incompetent coaching.

All losing teams have "losing cultures." All winning teams have "winning cultures." A team that goes from bad to good suddenly develops a "winning culture." It's a meaningless tautology.

For Musty, if he is going to turn into a star, he can spend the year in the OHL. Development is primarily a player thing, where teams can help on the margins. I don't really care where he spends next year (but he's going to spend time with the "losing culture" of the Sharks no matter what, because we aren't winning for probably four years no matter what).

 

[Juxtaposer]

Ultimately I think the decision will come down to how well Musty plays in training camp next September. If he forces the matter, he’ll start in the NHL. I think he will… but he’ll also have just turned 19. The most recent cases of Sharks prospects making the big team and sticking the whole year in their D+2 season are Hertl and Meier, who were also big-bodied wingers, but they were also both almost a full year older than Musty (October/November birthdays compared to Musty’s July birthday).

I just don’t know if Sudbury is the right environment to teach him good habits.

 

[TheBeard]

Ultimately I think the decision will come down to how well Musty plays in training camp next September. If he forces the matter, he’ll start in the NHL. I think he will… but he’ll also have just turned 19. The most recent cases of Sharks prospects making the big team and sticking the whole year in their D+2 season are Hertl and Meier, who were also big-bodied wingers, but they were also both almost a full year older than Musty (October/November birthdays compared to Musty’s July birthday).

I just don’t know if Sudbury is the right environment to teach him good habits.

I agree to an extent. I think how he does in training camp will affect whether or not he remains with the big club beyond 9 games, which I think is happening regardless.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Musty
Ritchie
Cowan

At picks 26, 27, and 28. Looks like some great value at the lower end of the first round. Pretty surprising considering the conventional wisdom is that OHL guys are overvalued.

The entire 2023 1st round is ridiculous. There's a couple questionable picks but almost the entire round of selections has looked great this year. It's one of the reasons everyone is arguing in that re-draft thread...if everyone in the draft is playing good compared to expectations...how can you reason moving them up in a redraft .