LW Kyle Connor (2015, 17th, WPG) II

[The Winter Soldier]

Pretty damn embarrassing to go 0 for 8 on the power play with Petan in the press box and Connor in the minors.

Special teams. The importance of them especially the way the refs are calling them. No good reason to go 0-8. You don't deserve to win if you choose a roster have 1/2 pluggers 1/2 skilled guys in today's game. I can see Connor going back and lighting it up with the Moose. How the Jets play will determine his next call up. The top 6 bottom 6 may not work. Tough position to be in for Jets fans. Failure early on will probably force the Jets hands. Winning just enough probably hurts long term progress.

 

[Atoyot]

Pretty damn embarrassing to go 0 for 8 on the power play with Petan in the press box and Connor in the minors.

Not to mention Ehlers on the second unit, Morrissey not on the PP at all.

 

[Pi]

Special teams. The importance of them especially the way the refs are calling them. No good reason to go 0-8. You don't deserve to win if you choose a roster have 1/2 pluggers 1/2 skilled guys in today's game. I can see Connor going back and lighting it up with the Moose. How the Jets play will determine his next call up. The top 6 bottom 6 may not work. Tough position to be in for Jets fans. Failure early on will probably force the Jets hands. Winning just enough probably hurts long term progress.

I don't know why you're blaming pluggers or top 6 bottom 6 vs top 9 bottom 3 when the Jets PP was neutralized by the Leafs PK.

Laine, Byfuglien, Scheifele, Ehlers, Myers, Little, Trouba etc all played anywhere between 7-10 mins of the game on the PP. They failed to get a single goal on it.

What else can Maurice do besides put his best players on the ice for the PP? He can't get on the ice and score PP's for Winnipeg. Their PP was horrendous...everyone just stood around waiting for the puck with very little movement.

Winnipeg does not have the depth right now to play a top 9 bottom 3 system. They have to stack their lineup to win otherwise you will end up with three average lines.

 

[Atoyot]

I don't know why you're blaming pluggers or top 6 bottom 6 vs top 9 bottom 3 when the Jets PP was neutralized by the Leafs PK.

Laine, Byfuglien, Scheifele, Ehlers, Myers, Little, Trouba etc all played anywhere between 7-10 mins of the game on the PP. They failed to get a single goal on it.

What else can Maurice do besides put his best players on the ice for the PP? He can't get on the ice and score PP's for Winnipeg. Their PP was horrendous...everyone just stood around waiting for the puck with very little movement.

Winnipeg does not have the depth right now to play a top 9 bottom 3 system. They have to stack their lineup to win otherwise you will end up with three average lines.

There is a whole lot wrong with this.

To start, who implements the PP systems? If you think they're standing around too much, that's on the coaching staff. They also have a PP1 that's designed to stand around (Laine, Buff, Lowry) and that only has 2 players that know how to do zone entries (Scheif, Laine) when our players that promote the most movement on the PP (Ehlers, Petan, Morrissey, Perreault) are either on the 2nd unit or not on it at all. Also, the players that are best on zone entry (Petan, Perreault, Morrissey) are not on PP1, or again, not on the PP at all. Who's that on?

Next, they absolutely have the depth to play top 9 bottom 3.

Ehlers-Scheifele-Laine
Connor-Little-Wheeler
Any combination of Perreault, Petan, Copp, Armia, and Dano is a competent third line.

Also I wouldn't say their PP was "horrendous", there were plenty of great chances that could have easily gone in, they just didn't. Lowry had 2 point blank, Laine had a great chance on the first one. 20(?) shots, 2 of those go and suddenly we're at 25% and it was a successful PP game.

 

[JetsFan815]

I don't know why you're blaming pluggers or top 6 bottom 6 vs top 9 bottom 3 when the Jets PP was neutralized by the Leafs PK.

Laine, Byfuglien, Scheifele, Ehlers, Myers, Little, Trouba etc all played anywhere between 7-10 mins of the game on the PP. They failed to get a single goal on it.

What else can Maurice do besides put his best players on the ice for the PP? He can't get on the ice and score PP's for Winnipeg. Their PP was horrendous...everyone just stood around waiting for the puck with very little movement.

Winnipeg does not have the depth right now to play a top 9 bottom 3 system. They have to stack their lineup to win otherwise you will end up with three average lines.

That happens when a team has a PDO of 82. Certainly not every team is capable of 117 PDO in a game eh? Ride that sh % baaaby

 

[JetsHomer]

I don't know why you're blaming pluggers or top 6 bottom 6 vs top 9 bottom 3 when the Jets PP was neutralized by the Leafs PK.

Laine, Byfuglien, Scheifele, Ehlers, Myers, Little, Trouba etc all played anywhere between 7-10 mins of the game on the PP. They failed to get a single goal on it.

What else can Maurice do besides put his best players on the ice for the PP? He can't get on the ice and score PP's for Winnipeg. Their PP was horrendous...everyone just stood around waiting for the puck with very little movement.

Winnipeg does not have the depth right now to play a top 9 bottom 3 system. They have to stack their lineup to win otherwise you will end up with three average lines.

The Jets had 18 shots on the PP. Are you trying to pretend like Anderson wasn’t the difference or did you not watch the game?

 

[Daximus]

The Jets had 18 shots on the PP. Are you trying to pretend like Anderson wasn’t the difference or did you not watch the game?

That's slightly over 2 shots per PP. Not nearly enough.

 

[Pi]

That happens when a team has a PDO of 82. Certainly not every team is capable of 117 PDO in a game eh? Ride that sh % baaaby

PDO isn't reliable over an entire season sometimes and you're trying to extract information from it with a sample size of one?

The Jets had 18 shots on the PP. Are you trying to pretend like Anderson wasn’t the difference or did you not watch the game?

Andersen made some great saves on the first ~2 PP's, after that it was the Leafs penalty killers that did most of the work. I can't think of a single tough save Andersen made in the 2nd or 3rd period on the penalty kill.

 

[JetsFan815]

PDO isn't reliable over an entire season sometimes and you're trying to extract information from it with a sample size of one?

You are conflating predictive with descriptive. PDO over one game isn't predictive but it is very descriptive. This is also backed up by the xGoal models which paint the game as more or less a tie.

 

[CraigBillington]

You are conflating predictive with descriptive. PDO over one game isn't predictive but it is very descriptive. This is also backed up by the xGoal models which paint the game as more or less a tie.

I am starting to think I need a translator with all these abbreviations for fancy stats that seem to pop up every month.

All these analytics are making the game annoying to follow.

 

[bossram]

I am starting to think I need a translator with all these abbreviations for fancy stats that seem to pop up every month.

All these analytics are making the game annoying to follow.

Don't pay attention to them then.

But if you want to discuss the game in a holistic way, it may be useful to get familiar with many of these terms.

 

[M2Beezy]

This thread suppose to be about Connor but its just Jets fans finding excuses for their disaster opening night

 

[Pi]

This thread suppose to be about Connor but its just Jets fans finding excuses for their disaster opening night

Yeah I’m not quite sure why they think they would have fared better with Connor in the lineup. Let the guy develop instead of trying to rush him. He’s not Laine. Most guys need time.

 

[firstemperor]

Don't pay attention to them then.

But if you want to discuss the game in a holistic way, it may be useful to get familiar with many of these terms.

Off-topic but I think analytics are fine. It's just when you use them in a incredibly ignorant fashion to justify nonsense. The Jets lost last night because their defense was bad (as per Maurice) and because their shot quality was very low ( a lot of perimeter shots that Andersen easily tracked all night), despite having 8 PP's...3 straight to start the game before it even hit 10 minutes into the 1st. That's the type of handicap that can sink a team before the game even gets any flow, let alone on home ice in the season opener with all that adrenaline going. I would be lying if I wasn't perturbed by some of the minors last night against the Leafs.

In any case, it was a 7-2 game, it's also just one game into the season. Let's not swing either extreme, it's a long season.

As for Connor, I don't see any reason why he's not up. He's kind of like Kapanen for us, except the Leafs legitimately have no room for him (secondary to signing Marleau, which I already inherently didn't like)...whereas the Jets could clearly use him. He's already dominated the AHL for the 2nd half of last year on a bad Moose team. There's a point where it's probably better to play him than over-groom him any further...Connor is reaching that point.

 

[CraigBillington]

Don't pay attention to them then.

But if you want to discuss the game in a holistic way, it may be useful to get familiar with many of these terms.

Don't pay attention to them then.

But if you want to discuss the game in a holistic way, it may be useful to get familiar with many of these terms.

I have tried. trust me. I tried. Seems like so many are useless and are created just to prove why a certain player has some value over another. I get the need for them, but there's just so much out there that just convolutes following hockey.

But for example, I went to read up on xGoal and got met with an essay on how it's figured out. Sounds like such a pointless thing to try and figure out and use as a reason for a player's value.

 

[LoovTrain]

The Jets had 18 shots on the PP. Are you trying to pretend like Anderson wasn’t the difference or did you not watch the game?

Which of Andersen's seven goals did you like the best?

 

[JetsFan815]

This thread suppose to be about Connor but its just Jets fans finding excuses for their disaster opening night

Who is making excuses "Mogilny To Bure"? The Jets were terrible last night no one is questioning that, what I am questioning is a certain Leaf fan taking a heavily PDO driven performance and using it to pump his team's tires. Look at my posting history, I am far from a Jets apologist, I probably critisize the Jets more in a week than you do in the entire year, what I do rail against is when ignorance is put on display which it was by a certain Leafs fan , that is not finding excuses, that is setting the record straight. Really enjoying your posts this season so far "Mogilny To Bure", you are already in midseason form.

Off-topic but I think analytics are fine. It's just when you use them in a incredibly ignorant fashion to justify nonsense. The Jets lost last night because their defense was bad (as per Maurice) and because their shot quality was very low ( a lot of perimeter shots that Andersen easily tracked all night), despite having 8 PP's...3 straight to start the game before it even hit 10 minutes into the 1st.

(...snipped the rest of the post which was transparent attempt to hijack another main board thread into a Leafs related thread...)

Hmm... quality of shots being thrown at the net. If only there was a stat that is designed to track that exact thing in a very specific, well defined, scientific and emotionally detached manner that doesn't involve human biases- oh wait there is, it's called Team Expected Goals which lays out a much reasonable interpretation of the game than your 117 to 82 PDO based pumpfest.

 

[JetsFan815]

I have tried. trust me. I tried. Seems like so many are useless and are created just to prove why a certain player has some value over another. I get the need for them, but there's just so much out there that just convolutes following hockey.

But for example, I went to read up on xGoal and got met with an essay on how it's figured out. Sounds like such a pointless thing to try and figure out and use as a reason for a player's value.

xGoald is a measure of how many goals a team would have scored in a given game based on their "shot quality" where "shot quality" is function of shot count, angle, distance, type, shot context and a couple of other things that I don't remember that have been known to correlate with the probabilty of a shot going into the net. It is not a perfect stat but it describes something very useful that you can use to aid your understanding of the game. It is not a stat for the sake of being a stat.

 

[bossram]

I have tried. trust me. I tried. Seems like so many are useless and are created just to prove why a certain player has some value over another. I get the need for them, but there's just so much out there that just convolutes following hockey.

But for example, I went to read up on xGoal and got met with an essay on how it's figured out. Sounds like such a pointless thing to try and figure out and use as a reason for a player's value.

xGoals is an attempt to quantify what share of goals the player's team would score while he is on the ice, by taking into account shot volume, shot type, shot location, passing, shooting talent, etc. Hardly seems pointless.

You want players who are going to have positive goal differentials.

 

[firstemperor]

xGoals is an attempt to quantify what share of goals the player's team would score while he is on the ice, by taking into account shot volume, shot type, shot location, passing, shooting talent, etc. Hardly seems pointless.

You want players who are going to have positive goal differentials.

Hmm... quality of shots being thrown at the net. If only there was a stat that is designed to track that exact thing in a very specific, well defined, scientific and emotionally detached manner that doesn't involve human biases- oh wait there is, it's called Team Expected Goals which lays out a much reasonable interpretation of the game than your 117 to 82 PDO based pumpfest.

I have tried. trust me. I tried. Seems like so many are useless and are created just to prove why a certain player has some value over another. I get the need for them, but there's just so much out there that just convolutes following hockey.

But for example, I went to read up on xGoal and got met with an essay on how it's figured out. Sounds like such a pointless thing to try and figure out and use as a reason for a player's value.

I'm actually very pro-analytics/metrics. It's an progressive science that is much needed in pro-sports to give any team an edge. In fact, I put in a fare amount of time reading into them. I remember a time when they were almost primitive in hockey but were widespread in other sports I follow. But you can't just throw out numbers just because someone posted it on twitter without zero context. First and foremost, you have to be able to actually critically evaluate the methodology behind them in the first place.

Inherently, there are different models of expected goals- that are based on different methodology. We can only infer what frame of references they used to gauge the stat and inherently, there are countless limitations in the model. Just because you shoot from "X" spot doesn't mean it is a high danger scoring chance, you can't fully account for/factor in accuracy, shot placement, quality of player, whether the goalie is actually tracking the puck or if it is off several primary/secondary passes, and countless other facets into one model. There are too many confounders that these models NEVER account for. This is further confounded when you are making sweeping conclusions using this model, based on one game. There is so much variability (r^2, STD DEV) from that model that your truly stretching to judge any one of ~90-98% of games played in today's NHL to make sweeping generalizations using it.

I should preface this by saying I do think posession metrics, and other models are generally way better predictors of one-game success than xGoals. They aren't be-all, end-all types. And in general, they provide better predictive success over very large sample sizes, not just one game

I think that's the pet peeve that people have with analytics in the first place, you throw posts on twitter with almost zero context to justify some favorable narrative.

 

[GlitchMarner]

How is Connor playing so far in the AHL?

His stats are good (5 points in 4 games). Are the Jets likely to call him up soon?

 

[howkie]

How is Connor playing so far in the AHL?

His stats are good (5 points in 4 games). Are the Jets likely to call him up soon?

If Matte P is injured we all hope Jets would call up Connor, we would riot if Maurice put Tanev in the top-6....

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If Matte P is injured we all hope Jets would call up Connor, we would riot if Maurice put Tanev in the top-6....

If MP and or Copp or Matthias are out. I think the Jets will be better off with both Roslovac and Connor in the top 9. Both are off to 5 in 4 starts. Only a matter of time before they are called up for good.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

Just got called up. He will be playing with Little and Laine

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Just got called up. He will be playing with Little and Laine

Has he practiced with Laine and Little or are you just saying this? He wouldn't fit that line.