Rumor: Luke Schenn Deal Done? (Update: #400)

[jackjohnson]

Schenn and Hoglander and Stillman (or Bear) for Carlo (Full contract), Riley (Full contract), Smith (Full contract), Lysell and a 1st.

No Taksie, Backsies by either side.

Dude I would do backflips even for a 1st or Lysell...even Horvat extended wouldn't get us that package

My prediction is that if it is Schenn alone he returns a 3rd. I do think he will be part of a bigger deal, with the Canucks taking back a cap dump and getting an additional prospect, or the pick becomes a 2nd.

If it's expiring cap dump this year. If it expires next year then it will be a 2nd and prospect or a 1st and 3rd or something.

 

[jackjohnson]

haha or ya'll are being too prissy about a car ride ... and i have 4 kids ... and the best time to travel with them are babies as they sleep alot ... but you guys just seem to want to argue .. lol

Dude you seem to lack common sense. If the trade is to Boston, you think schenn will drive from Vancouver all the way to Boston or Toronto in this winter with bad conditions in some parts of the country with a 1 week old baby? Schenn will let the wife probably stay in Vancouver while he goes and plays for a team for 2 or 3 months then comeback to his wife and sign with Canucks again.

 

[tkb81]

You said he can get 4th or 5th and at most 3rd lol. He would have been traded 2 months ago if Canucks only wanted a 4th or a 3rd. That's very cheap price to pay for Schenn.


You want a 9 month pregnant woman that is due for delivery next week to take a long road trip in a car? Common sense anyone???

sigh, for the third time i'll explain ... the dude said a 3-6 month wait after birth to fly .. I dont mean send the pregnant person on the plane .. its wait till babies out of hospital and such then drive ... dont people read the thread?

Dude you seem to lack common sense. If the trade is to Boston, you think schenn will drive from Vancouver all the way to Boston or Toronto in this winter with bad conditions in some parts of the country with a 1 week old baby? Schenn will let the wife probably stay in Vancouver while he goes and plays for a team for 2 or 3 months then comeback to his wife and sign with Canucks again.

so you answered your own question .. no need to put people down .. unless it makes you feel better ... and ive driven further with baby twins .. alone .. well with my other two toddlers .. not too hard .. just time consuming

 

[jackjohnson]

I can't believe this guy is getting as much attention as he is. He is literally a 7th D on a contender but its all over twitter and the boards here as if he is a star. lol

You become a star when you play for Vancouver

 

[zcaptain]

It's called the Quinn Hughes affect.

Well, I can concede that, when he is with Hughes, he gets more points, but in regards to +/-, I would call it the Schenn effect, as Schenn is a great defensive Dman, in comparison. He would probably have a better +/- with an average defenseman that can play defense....it goes both ways. And like I say he is +9, good for 19th best RHD in the league.

 

[jackjohnson]

sigh, for the third time i'll explain ... the dude said a 3-6 month wait after birth to fly .. I dont mean send the pregnant person on the plane .. its wait till babies out of hospital and such then drive ... dont people read the thread?


so you answered your own question .. no need to put people down .. unless it makes you feel better ... and ive driven further with baby twins .. alone .. well with my other two toddlers .. not too hard .. just time consuming

Just because you did, doesn't mean anyone else can or risk it especially in winter. I also know my friend who climbed Everest, doesn't mean everyone wants to or can.

 

[BostonBob]

Schenn and Hoglander and Stillman (or Bear) for Carlo (Full contract), Riley (Full contract), Smith (Full contract), Lysell and a 1st.

Congrats - this is absolutely the worst trade proposal ever posted on HFBoards.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Absolute nonsense

Maybe 2-3 current playoff teams

I am not saying he is a #1 Dman or anything like that, but Schenn is 28th in scoring for all RHD in the league and tied for 19th in plus minus. He leads the league in hits and fights anyone willingly. He’s won 2 Stanley Cups and is very well respected by his teammates.

That is worth a bidding war at $850k a season and I think it’s nuts he doesn’t get equivalent to a late first round pick return, these type of players get them all the time at the deadline only they make more money.

lol.... and he's #1 in scoring for RHD with initials LS who's fav colour is blue.

He's all these things on an awful, defensively incapable team. That says a lot.

His value is based on his role with the acquiring team.

 

[jackjohnson]

This is Luke Schenn not Cale Makar lol

We are talking draft pick bro, not a 10 player trade. Everyone arguing between late 2nd and late 3rd round picks. So it take cale Makar to get a late 1st??

 

[HighLifeMan]

Well, I can concede that, when he is with Hughes, he gets more points, but in regards to +/-, I would call it the Schenn effect, as Schenn is a great defensive Dman, in comparison. He would probably have a better +/- with an average defenseman that can play defense....it goes both ways. And like I say he is +9, good for 19th best RHD in the league.

I mean he's a +10 a even strengths with Quinn, and a -6 without him.

Hughes carries him heavily in every aspect.

 

[zcaptain]

You become a star when you play for Vancouver

I don't know what others are saying, but certainly, he is doing pretty good for a limited skill package. He leads the league in hits, and is close in fights, is a mature, unflappable stay at home dman, has a pretty good point production, and plus minus, and who comes to anyone's aid. He is what he is, but IMO, he will be a positive to who ever gets him.

 

[Cogburn]

Schenn and Hoglander and Stillman (or Bear) for Carlo (Full contract), Riley (Full contract), Smith (Full contract), Lysell and a 1st.

No Taksie, Backsies by either side.

Come on, man, give Boston a little credit here.

Stillman for Riley doesn't really help anyone, I'd say those pieces negate each other.

Schenn and Hoglander are worth something, Carlo or a first or Lysell I'd say, maybe with a small + depending on the piece sent our way.

Smith is a cap dump, but not the needing the remaining two assets listed above. Even if Bear is included instead of Stillman.

Boston's shooting it's figurative asset wad on this trade, and not really addressing their main needs, as far as I know.

 

[Oddbob]

Well Dave Gust signed now so holdup should be over.

It is always moves like these that get the ball rolling.

Could it be Seattle? They put Driedger on waivers a few hours ago.

 

[jackjohnson]

Has anyone looked at the Canucks depth chart? Especially on D??

It might be the worst we’ve seen (in the NHL) in recent memory. Guarantee it’s the worst I can ever remember for the Canucks.

Every single asset they move, they need to make an effort to acquire an under 25 young player/prospect.

I mentioned the other day, I wouldn’t count out the Detroit, Buffalo or Ottawa types when it comes to Schenn. Teams they could pluck a decent/good young player from, who’s likely not in those team’s long-term plans. Simply because they have too many prospects.

So instead of a 2nd, they take a 3rd or 4th, and that player. A player who’s already developed for a few years, who will be an NHL player, who’s going to play 200+ NHL games, but likely does it for a different team.

I mentioned McIssac from Detroit. Former 2nd rounder and a Team Canada leader at World Juniors a few years ago. A player who struggle with injuries for 2 years but has been healthy for the last 2 years and is developing right where he was expected to. Still only 22 years old and will absolutely play in the NHL.

His problem is, he’s now 4th on the Wings LHD prospect list behind Edvinsson, Wallinder and Johansson. So his chances of being traded in the next two years is pretty good.

When Rathbone is the best thing they have in the system, which includes Pettersson and Jurmo from last year’s draft, it’s as empty as it gets. To the desperation of signing Johansson after the Wild declined to sign their former 1st round pick. A player who at 23, still lacks physical strength and likely never plays in the NHL.

McIssac would be at the top of the Canucks prospect list for dmen. In fact, they need to do this for 2-3 years, just to replenish the system and pray their new scouting staff and evaluators, start hitting on some picks this coming draft.

So absolutely, they should be taking deals like Schenn for McIssac and a 3rd rounder, over just a 2nd rounder.

32 spots in a draft of 18 year old kids, isn’t worth more than a player who will play 200+ games for you.

Could also see a Foote trade from Tampa for Schenn. Or with Buffalo, a 3rd and Ryan Johnson, or another dman who’s likely not in Buffalo’s plans.

Too many people on HF Judge everything by what amounts to 10-15% of how NHL rosters are built. 1st round picks, former 1st round picks, and players who play in the NHL at 20-21. Forgetting that 90% of players go through development years.

A 2nd, 3rd or 4th round pick takes 5-6 years to contribute in almost every case. 2-3 years before we even know if they will likely play in the league.

Because of how empty their prospect pool on D is, they can’t be subtracting from their blue line and not getting players in return. So they have to target certain players who would probably be available from teams who are loaded with dmen prospects.

Yzerman isn’t who brought Schenn to Tampa but Lalonde has a history with him, and he is the type of dman who Yzerman adds at deadlines. With the way his team is currently playing, and having those games in-hand, people shouldn’t discount Detroit adding. Especially a player like Schenn who fills a spot on their bottom pair.

For those who seem to think a player like McIssac is just a body with no upside. Meet Jake Walman!! And McIssac is only 22. Lindstrom at 24, would be a better comparison to Walman. A player with over 100 games already, who could step right in and take Schenn’s spot tomorrow. He just doesn’t have McIssac’s upside.

You can’t build your D through UFA signings. They have to add some young dmen into their system and stop the bleeding.

For getting D, Vancouver need to look at everything...college FAs, KHL FAs, UFAs, drafts, trades etc. I think they are very attractive to college FAs for sure as the Canucks can offer roster spot in their regular lineup. What are some of the college FAs this offseason? Or college players that are requesting for a trade??

 

[jackjohnson]

Canucks management is unable to develop 50% of the 1st rounders they draft.


Assuming a 3rd round pick will end up on the team is insane. A 2nd rounder to the Canes, Bolts or Wings has value. A 2nd rounder to the Canucks just gives us a topic to argue about for 2-4 years.

They did fine with Boeser, Horvat, McCann, Pettersson, Hughes...possibly Podkolzin. They have been fine when it comes to developing forwards they picked in the 1st round and also Hughes who is a dman. Virtanen and Juolevi were the only failures as far as I can see and that's less than 30% fail rate for 1st round picks. So I don't know what you are talking about

while I do agree with you, the old regime is Benning is a bunch of stooges. The new one under Allvin has a larger staff and the player development team is more specialized. I would give them the benefit of doubt, so far Coliton is doing a pretty good job and there is a lot more communication between the arms of the hockey ops.

I do disagree with his comment regarding our 1st round picks. Canucks have been very good when it has come to 1st round picks and even had 3 players nominated for clader trophy 3 times in a row in Boeser, Petersson and Hughes

 

[82Ninety42011]

Take Lohrei over Lysell 10/10

I would to but he could also walk as UFA in 2024 if doesn't sign. Hate that rule but it's always an option for these college guys that stay to become UFA's.

 

[DeltaSwede]

I mean he's a +10 a even strengths with Quinn, and a -6 without him.

Hughes carries him heavily in every aspect.

Hughes carries any defender he players with though.

Is a 16 goal differential that significant on a team like the Canucks?

That's like 3 games worth of goals against.

 

[NoShowWilly]

Hughes carries any defender he players with though.

Is a 16 goal differential that significant on a team like the Canucks?

That's like 3 games worth of goals against.

Only for myers

 

[Petes2424]

Most of those players will find themselves on the waiver wire in the near future. Vancouver needs higher impact players and if a 2nd is available for Schenn they should be jumping on it.

We have no idea if a 21 or 22 year old, former 1st and 2nd round pick respectively, will ever end up on waivers. Johnson is just not likely to sign with the Sabres, and McIssac could absolutely still be a Top 4 dman. We will know a lot more in 2-3 years obviously.

One of the reasons teams do these type of trades, is because they already know the player will play in the NHL. It’s just how good do they think they’ll end up. Obviously that’s debatable and nobody knows because the player is still developing.

What we don’t know 100% of the time? Is if this year’s 2nd and 3rd round picks for the Canucks, will even play in the NHL.

Nobody can logically answer that until that player is at least two years removed from their draft year. Sometimes longer.

So with the choice of a player who will play in the NHL, especially a dman, and a 3rd round pick, compared to a late 2nd round pick?

Pretty much, every manager (in the Canucks situation) is going to choose the player and the 3rd rounder. Especially teams who trust their scouts and 100% do their own scouting and draft lists. They believe they will get just as good of a player at 85th overall, as they would at 58th overall.

It would be much different if teams all used the same exact draft lists.

Fact is, most fans would be floored if they seen the 32 different draft lists. Especially from teams like Carolina, Detroit, Edmonton, NYR and a few others, who do all of their scouting and draft prep in house. Not relying on any scouting services at all.

After the Top 20 in most drafts, players are rated by the different teams, very different from scouting service lists fans may see..

There’s some teams who would absolutely take that 2nd over the player and a 3rd. Those teams would generally have deep prospect pools.

A very different place than the Canucks are in right now.

 

[Peter Griffin]

We have no idea if a 21 or 22 year old, former 1st and 2nd round pick respectively, will ever end up on waivers. Johnson is just not likely to sign with the Sabres, and McIssac could absolutely still be a Top 4 dman. We will know a lot more in 2-3 years obviously.

One of the reasons teams do these type of trades, is because they already know the player will play in the NHL. It’s just how good do they think they’ll end up. Obviously that’s debatable and nobody knows because the player is still developing.

What we don’t know 100% of the time? Is if this year’s 2nd and 3rd round picks for the Canucks, will even play in the NHL.

Nobody can logically answer that until that player is at least two years removed from their draft year. Sometimes longer.

So with the choice of a player who will play in the NHL, especially a dman, and a 3rd round pick, compared to a late 2nd round pick?

Pretty much, every manager (in the Canucks situation) is going to choose the player and the 3rd rounder. Especially teams who trust their scouts and 100% do their own scouting and draft lists. They believe they will get just as good of a player at 85th overall, as they would at 58th overall.

It would be much different if teams all used the same exact draft lists.

Fact is, most fans would be floored if they seen the 32 different draft lists. Especially from teams like Carolina, Detroit, Edmonton, NYR and a few others, who do all of their scouting and draft prep in house. Not relying on any scouting services at all.

After the Top 20 in most drafts, players are rated by the different teams, very different from scouting service lists fans may see..

There’s some teams who would absolutely take that 2nd over the player and a 3rd. Those teams would generally have deep prospect pools.

A very different place than the Canucks are in right now.

There’s a lot of talk here but ultimately what it comes down to is that the 2nd has a higher chance of being an impact player and it’s also more valuable should Vancouver choose to flip that 2nd at the draft for a player that becomes available this offseason. The deals you’re suggesting are Benning-esque. Vancouver has plenty of bottom pairing defenseman, they need quality. That’s not MacIssac/Lindstrom etc.

 

[DeltaSwede]

Only for myers

Worst defender in the league. How can that giraffe of a human being with the longest stick in the universe constantly be out of position on goals against? He's always late on the puck and/or the puck carrier.

Swing your damn stick giraffe man.

 

[tkb81]

Just because you did, doesn't mean anyone else can or risk it especially in winter. I also know my friend who climbed Everest, doesn't mean everyone wants to or can.

Haha well that's a big extreme lol .. I think yall are just city folk

 

[tkb81]

They did fine with Boeser, Horvat, McCann, Pettersson, Hughes...possibly Podkolzin. They have been fine when it comes to developing forwards they picked in the 1st round and also Hughes who is a dman. Virtanen and Juolevi were the only failures as far as I can see and that's less than 30% fail rate for 1st round picks. So I don't know what you are talking about


I do disagree with his comment regarding our 1st round picks. Canucks have been very good when it has come to 1st round picks and even had 3 players nominated for clader trophy 3 times in a row in Boeser, Petersson and Hughes

not good enough to actually win anything ...

 

[oceanchild]

Congrats - this is absolutely the worst trade proposal ever posted on HFBoards.

Given how long you have been here, I find that hard to believe.

 

[BostonBob]

Given how long you have been here, I find that hard to believe.

Of course when I signed up there were only 6 teams in the league.