Proposal: Lucic for Toffoli

[McJedi]

Hello everyone,

Looking at other threads, the premise of is based on the following assumptions:
- Toffoli's stand-alone value is around a 1st + a 2nd/decent prospect.
- Lucic's value is largely negative.
- Also, the Flames likely need something close to 5M extra for Tkachuk+Gaudreau's next contracts.
Brouwer is 1.5M; Pitlick gone is 1M (replaced by ELC); Cap increase 1M; and Offer below 1M.

Flames:
Tyler Toffoli @ 4.25M 3YL

Habs:
Lucic @ 5.25M 2YL
Flames 2022 1st round pick
Conor Zary

Needless to say, Lucic would not play in Mtl due to his history with the team. So he'd either be flipped or bought out.

This is terrible for the Flames. Lucic value isn’t that negative. He’s a regular for the Flames and has a specific role on their team. This isn’t some guy the Flames want or need to bury in the AHL. I wouldn’t do that deal from the Flames perspective even if you removed one of the 1st or Zary.

I’d do it straight up if I’m the Flames but Lucic’s deal has only 1.5 years left. It’s not that long nor is it that much of an overpay. Reminds me of Erik Johnson’s deal with the Avs. You’ve overpaying for a somewhat valued and moderately important player on your team.

 

[Habs Halifax]

This is terrible for the Flames. Lucic value isn’t that negative. He’s a regular for the Flames and has a specific role on their team. This isn’t some guy the Flames want or need to bury in the AHL.

If Lucic was on the Habs and playing the same as he has with the Flames, there would be a shit load of "negative value" narratives on HF boards. Reality. Lucic is performing to a $3M AAV value at best in his time with the Flames. He is a negative contract at $6M AAV. Reality

 

[McJedi]

If Lucic was on the Habs and playing the same as he has with the Flames, there would be a shit load of "negative value" narratives on HF boards. Reality. Lucic is performing to a $3M AAV value at best in his time with the Flames. He is a negative contract at $6M AAV. Reality

He’s your Drouin. And you’ve probably noticed less noise on Drouin being negative value the closer he gets to that last year of his contract.

maybe suggest a Drouin for Lucic trade. Same term and close AAV.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He’s your Drouin. And you’ve probably noticed less noise on Drouin being negative value the closer he gets to that last year of his contract.

maybe suggest a Drouin for Lucic trade. Same term and close AAV.

Both Drouin and Lucic have glaring flaws. Drouin is very soft but skilled and Lucic is very physical but poor skating. So that's not a bad comparison but doubt either the Flames or Habs would be interested in that.

My point is that Lucic does not add value to that trade package and it's not bad value. Both Lucic and Drouin are negative contracts who are not performing to their cap hits. Reality. For as bad as Drouin has been in the gritty areas, he's actually been very consistent as a 50 pts forward. But even after having a decent season with the Habs this year, I would still not expect to trade him for value. That applies to the Lucic as well.

 

[FameFlame069]

I do realize it but he's not performing to his cap hit even if he is not having "bad seasons" with the Flames. Flames probably decline but it's not a horrible trade value considering Lucic's anchor contract at play.

Lucic's performing to a $3M AAV contract at best with the Flames.

He scores big goals, he throws big hits, he blocks big timed shots, he's not a 3M player on the Flames, he's been a savior for us, imagine if we still had Neal and his big 3 goals, I'm keeping Lucic rather than paying premium assets to lose him, not a lot of Flames fan care about how high his cap hit is, he came in to replace an overpaid player and actually has a role on this team, whether other teams see it or not, he's been better than fine since coming to the C of Red and the only people asking about Lucic is from other teams trying to make us pay to move him, we're not interested in giving up 2 premium assets to move a silly cap hit, you want Zary and a 1st? I want CC and a 1st, even trade.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He scores big goals, he throws big hits, he blocks big timed shots, he's not a 3M player on the Flames, he's been a savior for us, imagine if we still had Neal and his big 3 goals, I'm keeping Lucic rather than paying premium assets to lose him, not a lot of Flames fan care about how high his cap hit is, he came in to replace an overpaid player and actually has a role on this team, whether other teams see it or not, he's been better than fine since coming to the C of Red and the only people asking about Lucic is from other teams trying to make us pay to move him, we're not interested in giving up 2 premium assets to move a silly cap hit, you want Zary and a 1st? I want CC and a 1st, even trade.

I'm aware of Lucic's trends. The reality is he is not worth his AAV and you would tell me the same if I was trying to pump up Drouin

Would the Flames do this? Probably not but my point is the value is not horrible. Lucic being involved in this package is the negative anchor contract. If his cap hit was $2M - $3M, that's a different story yes

 

[ole ole]

Get outta here, we wouldn't trade you Looch 1-1 for Toffoli, look elsewhere, Zary AND a 1st? LAUGHING my butt off, Toffoli wouldn't even touch the top 6 in Calgary, we'd need to lose two top 6 forwards for him to even get a sniff, he's not scoring 20+ goals here either, we're not paying premium assets for complimentary pieces please tell me your green dealer, I need this potent stuff you got buddy

Imagine saying that you wouldn't trade Lucic straight up for Toffoli.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

meh Zary is nothing special dont even see top 6 potentiel and f*** Lucic

 

[FameFlame069]

I'm aware of Lucic's trends. The reality is he is not worth his AAV and you would tell me the same if I was trying to pump up Drouin

Would the Flames do this? Probably not but my point is the value is not horrible. Lucic being involved in this package is the negative anchor contract. If his cap hit was $2M - $3M, that's a different story yes

Not many Flames fans are "pumping up Lucic" to trade him, I have not seen a single Flames fan point out all of Lucics intangibles to pump him up, in this thread alone the few people who have spoken about Lucic from the Flames side have said they would prefer keeping him, his "AAV" doesn't bother us, we are not trying to SELL Lucic, y'all are TRYING to get him FROM us, get it through your heads, a Habs fan started this thread ASKING for Lucic, we didn't offer him up

 

[FameFlame069]

Imagine saying that you wouldn't trade Lucic straight up for Toffoli.

Lucic brings much more to the Flames, while Toffoli wouldn't bring much to our team, if we were interested in TT we would of offered him a contract in the off-season, he would be a road block for prospects like Ruzicka, Zary, Pelletier, Corn, we'd rather keep Lucic with his leadership and toughness around rather than give up premium assets for something we have multiple players already for, Toffoli wouldn't crack our top 6 without TWO injuries, NOT INTERESTED

 

[Larry Hanson]

Non Flames fans might not believe it but Looch is a fan favorite and very popular amongst his teammates, especially the younger guys that he has mentored. If the Flames have to move him for cap space it will happen after his last bonus is paid. Personally (if he can maintain his play) I'd love to have him back on a cheap deal after this contract expires.

Edit: Disagree with other posters though, love Looch but trading him straight up for Toffoli (not that MTL would do that) would be a no brainer. He wouldn't be blocking anyone, Flames have been weak on the RW since Iginla left.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not many Flames fans are "pumping up Lucic" to trade him, I have not seen a single Flames fan point out all of Lucics intangibles to pump him up, in this thread alone the few people who have spoken about Lucic from the Flames side have said they would prefer keeping him, his "AAV" doesn't bother us, we are not trying to SELL Lucic, y'all are TRYING to get him FROM us, get it through your heads, a Habs fan started this thread ASKING for Lucic, we didn't offer him up

I'm not sure you are grasping my point well. Flames probably decline but the value is not horrible. Lucic at his cap hit is a negative value. Just like Drouin with the Habs.

 

[FameFlame069]

Non Flames fans might not believe it but Looch is a fan favorite and very popular amongst his teammates, especially the younger guys that he has mentored. If the Flames have to move him for cap space it will happen after his last bonus is paid. Personally (if he can maintain his play) I'd love to have him back on a cheap deal after this contract expires.

Trust me, Habs fans aren't taking the logic,they think just because he's not producing he's automatically a cap dump from us while not many Flames fans have accepted this deal or any other deal involving Looch + premium assets for whatever they want to throw at us

 

[FameFlame069]

I'm not sure you are grasping my point well. Flames probably decline but the value is not horrible. Lucic at his cap hit is a negative value. Just like Drouin with the Habs.

Ive grasped it exactly how it's said, but Lucic isn't negative value to the team he plays for, so it's a moot point, if the Flames don't care about paying him less than what Neal was getting paid, then he's not a problem, there was no way that Flames FO was going to let them buy out Neal after year 1, so they did what they had to get out of Neal's anchor and that was by bringing in a veteran, tough guy, who can help here/there on scoring, do what he does best and hit and protect his teammates, we don't see him like the rest of the league wants us to see him, so if you want to keep asking about Lucic, then ask without making us pay, cause he's not a negative to us

 

[Cenzo_]

Yeah no, absolutely not. How about you just keep Toffoli and we'll do Lucic for Anderson straight up? Montreal gets almost identical production but rids themselves of the contract after next year.

Get real, you are not getting Anderson for Lucic straight up.

 

[beowulf]

Trust me, Habs fans aren't taking the logic,they think just because he's not producing he's automatically a cap dump from us while not many Flames fans have accepted this deal or any other deal involving Looch + premium assets for whatever they want to throw at us

He is still a partial cap dump whether you like to admit it or not. It might not be at the same level as when he and Neal were swapped but his value is still below what he is getting paid to do, especially on a team that is going to see their top two stars get decent enough raises in the off season and they are already at $50M+ for 11 players for next season.

 

[Cenzo_]

Get outta here, we wouldn't trade you Looch 1-1 for Toffoli, look elsewhere, Zary AND a 1st? LAUGHING my butt off, Toffoli wouldn't even touch the top 6 in Calgary, we'd need to lose two top 6 forwards for him to even get a sniff, he's not scoring 20+ goals here either, we're not paying premium assets for complimentary pieces please tell me your green dealer, I need this potent stuff you got buddy

Well if you think Looch is a better player then Toffoli, you clearly have good green already, no need for anything stronger

 

[Scintillating10]

Hello everyone,

Looking at other threads, the premise of is based on the following assumptions:
- Toffoli's stand-alone value is around a 1st + a 2nd/decent prospect.
- Lucic's value is largely negative.
- Also, the Flames likely need something close to 5M extra for Tkachuk+Gaudreau's next contracts.
Brouwer is 1.5M; Pitlick gone is 1M (replaced by ELC); Cap increase 1M; and Offer below 1M.

Flames:
Tyler Toffoli @ 4.25M 3YL

Habs:
Lucic @ 5.25M 2YL
Flames 2022 1st round pick
Conor Zary

Needless to say, Lucic would not play in Mtl due to his history with the team. So he'd either be flipped or bought out.

Habs would do it but Flames would. Montreal has a ton of caproom with Weber, Price on LTIR. Toffoli goes in this trade and Chiarot likely traded this year removes another 8 million.

 

[Cenzo_]

You do realize that Lucic hasn't really had any bad seasons in Calgary and the only people who want to trade him are from other teams? Toffoli isn't worth his contract, keep him

Toffoli scored 33 goals and 61 pts in his last 78 games and he isn't worth $4.25M for the next 2 yrs and 1/2 until he is 32?

 

[Volica]

Props to MTL fans for thinking Lucic in the back nine of his career would waive to go to a rebuilding team for the next year and a half.

I honestly don’t think Calgary is a good fit for Toffoli. We need to dump a contract next year to just have enough to re-sign everyone we need to re-sign.

 

[Prairie Habs]

You do realize that Lucic hasn't really had any bad seasons in Calgary and the only people who want to trade him are from other teams? Toffoli isn't worth his contract, keep him

Not many Flames fans are "pumping up Lucic" to trade him, I have not seen a single Flames fan point out all of Lucics intangibles to pump him up, in this thread alone the few people who have spoken about Lucic from the Flames side have said they would prefer keeping him, his "AAV" doesn't bother us, we are not trying to SELL Lucic, y'all are TRYING to get him FROM us, get it through your heads, a Habs fan started this thread ASKING for Lucic, we didn't offer him up

4.25M for 33G 28A 61P in 78 games = not worth it

5.25M for 26G 30A 56P in 154 games = no problem, you literally call him your savior in another post

Love it

 

[McJedi]

Both Drouin and Lucic have glaring flaws. Drouin is very soft but skilled and Lucic is very physical but poor skating. So that's not a bad comparison but doubt either the Flames or Habs would be interested in that.

My point is that Lucic does not add value to that trade package and it's not bad value. Both Lucic and Drouin are negative contracts who are not performing to their cap hits. Reality. For as bad as Drouin has been in the gritty areas, he's actually been very consistent as a 50 pts forward. But even after having a decent season with the Habs this year, I would still not expect to trade him for value. That applies to the Lucic as well.

I agree they both have negative value. But that negative value isn’t severe.

Cary Price has severe negative value. Skinner has severe negative value. Vlasic in San Jose has severe negative value.

lucic has minor negative value. Certainly not two first round picks of negative value. That’s a gross overstatement of his value. This OP is way off base. That’s Reality.

 

[McJedi]

I'm aware of Lucic's trends. The reality is he is not worth his AAV and you would tell me the same if I was trying to pump up Drouin

Would the Flames do this? Probably not but my point is the value is not horrible. Lucic being involved in this package is the negative anchor contract. If his cap hit was $2M - $3M, that's a different story yes

Would you trade away your 2023 1st and the guy you took with the Habs 2021 1st to get rid of Drouin?

No you wouldn’t. Nor should you.

Exactly the same thinking applies to this appalling offer by the OP as it relates to Lucic. Reality.

 

[blankall]

I'm aware of Lucic's trends. The reality is he is not worth his AAV and you would tell me the same if I was trying to pump up Drouin

Would the Flames do this? Probably not but my point is the value is not horrible. Lucic being involved in this package is the negative anchor contract. If his cap hit was $2M - $3M, that's a different story yes

Please show me a 35 point player who will also lead the team in hits that signs as a ufa for 2-3 million.

I agree that Lucic is overpaid, but his cap hit for the Flames is only 5.25 for 1.5 years. His actual salary owed is less than $4 million per year.

Lucic brings exactly what every team needs for the playoffs.

 

[Sparky93]

Imagine thinking that the Flames would pay a premium to move a guy that would be the Canadiens leading goal scorer and 4th on the team in points.