Proposal: Lucic for Toffoli

[xNogaitx]

Hello everyone,

Looking at other threads, the premise of is based on the following assumptions:
- Toffoli's stand-alone value is around a 1st + a 2nd/decent prospect.
- Lucic's value is largely negative.
- Also, the Flames likely need something close to 5M extra for Tkachuk+Gaudreau's next contracts.
Brouwer is 1.5M; Pitlick gone is 1M (replaced by ELC); Cap increase 1M; and Offer below 1M.

Flames:
Tyler Toffoli @ 4.25M 3YL

Habs:
Lucic @ 5.25M 2YL
Flames 2022 1st round pick
Conor Zary

Needless to say, Lucic would not play in Mtl due to his history with the team. So he'd either be flipped or bought out.

Click to read more...

 

[WTFMAN99]

Hello everyone,

Looking at other threads, the premise of is based on the following assumptions:
- Toffoli's stand-alone value is around a 1st + a 2nd/decent prospect.
- Lucic's value is largely negative.
- Also, the Flames likely need something close to 5M extra for Tkachuk+Gaudreau's next contracts.
Brouwer is 1.5M; Pitlick gone is 1M (replaced by ELC); Cap increase 1M; and Offer below 1M.

Flames:
Tyler Toffoli @ 4.25M 3YL

Habs:
Lucic @ 5.25M 2YL
Flames 2022 1st round pick
Conor Zary

Needless to say, Lucic would not play in Mtl due to his history with the team. So he'd either be flipped or bought out.

I don't think the Flames want to push those assets out the door.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Flames say no

 

[DJJones]

So we need the cap space but then we bring in a guy that costs 4.25?

 

[Tkachuky]

I don’t think the Flames are in a position to give up those assets. Lucic has been fine.

 

[Djp]

Tofolli doesn’t get a 1st and a recent 1st round pick who hasn’t yet played in the nhl.

given his term p/ cap hit he isn’t getting a 1st back.

 

[xNogaitx]

Tofolli doesn’t get a 1st and a recent 1st round pick who hasn’t yet played in the nhl.

given his term p/ cap hit he isn’t getting a 1st back.

See, this is where we disagree.

Toffoli being a sub-30YO 55-65pts winger (top 6 RS Fwd) with SC pedigree is something NHL GMs are known to go crazy for. (esp. with such a low caphit. 4.25 for a guy that produces at that level, 30G on your 1st/2nd line is great.) You mention term, but his contract expires at age 32 before the significant drop for FWDs.

Zary is likely a 3C, or an average 2C (in his peak years) IF, and its important to say that, IF he pans out.
Like you said, he hasn't played in the NHL yet.
(But it's HFB, so prospects are always touted much higher in value.)

That 1st is also likely to be a late one (20-32nd) and those are known to be flipped like candies around TDL.

So to get rid of Lucic's caphit to better afford your core players whilst gaining a top 6 guy for the next 3 years is quite favourable for the Flames.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Hello everyone,

Looking at other threads, the premise of is based on the following assumptions:
- Toffoli's stand-alone value is around a 1st + a 2nd/decent prospect.
- Lucic's value is largely negative.
- Also, the Flames likely need something close to 5M extra for Tkachuk+Gaudreau's next contracts.
Brouwer is 1.5M; Pitlick gone is 1M (replaced by ELC); Cap increase 1M; and Offer below 1M.

Flames:
Tyler Toffoli @ 4.25M 3YL

Habs:
Lucic @ 5.25M 2YL
Flames 2022 1st round pick
Conor Zary

Needless to say, Lucic would not play in Mtl due to his history with the team. So he'd either be flipped or bought out.

Where did you get the idea that Lucic's value is "largely negative?" That's just fundamentally incorrect. Lucic has been a well above replacement level player every season in Calgary

I am all for acquiring Toffoli but I am 100% against paying Zary to dump Lucic's contract and his 20 goal pace

Calgary has ~3M TDL cap space right now (and probably more with Ritchie healthy soon). Toffoli can be acquired for your original 1st + 2nd + small dump (ie. Pitlick) and then if need be Lucic can be moved in the offseason after his final bonus is paid for at most a 2nd

 

[blankall]

Naw. Lucic actually fills a pretty important role for the flames and his production is good for his ice time.

 

[McSuper]

Hello everyone,

Looking at other threads, the premise of is based on the following assumptions:
- Toffoli's stand-alone value is around a 1st + a 2nd/decent prospect.
- Lucic's value is largely negative.
- Also, the Flames likely need something close to 5M extra for Tkachuk+Gaudreau's next contracts.
Brouwer is 1.5M; Pitlick gone is 1M (replaced by ELC); Cap increase 1M; and Offer below 1M.

Flames:
Tyler Toffoli @ 4.25M 3YL

Habs:
Lucic @ 5.25M 2YL
Flames 2022 1st round pick
Conor Zary

Needless to say, Lucic would not play in Mtl due to his history with the team. So he'd either be flipped or bought out.

I don't think the Flames would do this . Lucic may not be worth his cap hit but he been decent for Calgary . Better then Neal was in Edmonton outside of a hot start . Also Lucic isn't owed much is real dollars

 

[Baksfamous112]

I’m ok with OP’s offer as well as the 1st, 2nd and Pitlick. Whatever Calgary prefer

 

[Volica]

As Future most eloquently put it.
Ain’t no way, ain’t no f***in’ way.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

See, this is where we disagree.

Toffoli being a sub-30YO 55-65pts winger (top 6 RS Fwd) with SC pedigree is something NHL GMs are known to go crazy for. (esp. with such a low caphit. 4.25 for a guy that produces at that level, 30G on your 1st/2nd line is great.) You mention term, but his contract expires at age 32 before the significant drop for FWDs.

Zary is likely a 3C, or an average 2C (in his peak years) IF, and its important to say that, IF he pans out.
Like you said, he hasn't played in the NHL yet.
(But it's HFB, so prospects are always touted much higher in value.)

That 1st is also likely to be a late one (20-32nd) and those are known to be flipped like candies around TDL.

So to get rid of Lucic's caphit to better afford your core players whilst gaining a top 6 guy for the next 3 years is quite favourable for the Flames.

Man you just have zero knowledge on the Flames do you. What a horrible take, the guy is an AHL rookie with 1C potential

 

[TheHudlinator]

Lucic is actually useful this year no way I would include both a 1st and Zary

 

[BobbyShehan]

Toffoli's a very solid complementary player, a proven goal scorer and a popular guy among teammates and fans, still under 30 at under 5 mil. He'll get a good return if the Habs decide to go full rebuild. Getting back more salary for dead weight and a very late first is realistically not what they'd do. Not sure Zary is the difference maker... Could be but Lucic's contract for 2 years is too much cap.

 

[xNogaitx]

Man you just have zero knowledge on the Flames do you. What a horrible take, the guy is an AHL rookie with 1C potential

If a 20YO, 2-years removed from the draft is producing at a 0.5 clip in the AHL is considered a 1C potential, I think you're being a bit delusional here.

Zary is a prospect in the same realm of Poehling (who won WCJ MVP at age 19 and had 4G in his NHL start if you include shootouts).

He's the type of prospect who may hit 2C in his prime years if all works out.
(I am not saying Poehling's current value is that; just doing a prospect value comparable at that age.)

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Lucic is an effective player. When are fans going to realize the Flames have no reason to get rid of him?

Let alone adding a first and a really important prospect like Zary… for a guy like Tofolli.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Lucic is an effective player. When are fans going to realize the Flames have no reason to get rid of him?

Let alone adding a first and a really important prospect like Zary… for a guy like Tofolli.

I mean we do have a reason to move him this offseason but as far as this season goes he is actually our only with player showing up no way we move him

 

[Sparky93]

See, this is where we disagree.

Toffoli being a sub-30YO 55-65pts winger (top 6 RS Fwd) with SC pedigree is something NHL GMs are known to go crazy for. (esp. with such a low caphit. 4.25 for a guy that produces at that level, 30G on your 1st/2nd line is great.) You mention term, but his contract expires at age 32 before the significant drop for FWDs.

Zary is likely a 3C, or an average 2C (in his peak years) IF, and its important to say that, IF he pans out.
Like you said, he hasn't played in the NHL yet.
(But it's HFB, so prospects are always touted much higher in value.)

That 1st is also likely to be a late one (20-32nd) and those are known to be flipped like candies around TDL.

So to get rid of Lucic's caphit to better afford your core players whilst gaining a top 6 guy for the next 3 years is quite favourable for the Flames.

Yeah no, absolutely not. How about you just keep Toffoli and we'll do Lucic for Anderson straight up? Montreal gets almost identical production but rids themselves of the contract after next year.

 

[T_Cage]

Lucic is overpaid, but not by nearly enough that it takes an A prospect like Zary to dump his cap

 

[blankall]

Lucic is overpaid, but not by nearly enough that it takes an A prospect like Zary to dump his cap

After next year's signing bonus Lucic has one year left with only 1 million in actual salary owed. If the Flames move him this off season, it won't be that difficult. Zero chance that give up on Zary.

 

[blankall]

If a 20YO, 2-years removed from the draft is producing at a 0.5 clip in the AHL is considered a 1C potential, I think you're being a bit delusional here.

Zary is a prospect in the same realm of Poehling (who won WCJ MVP at age 19 and had 4G in his NHL start if you include shootouts).

He's the type of prospect who may hit 2C in his prime years if all works out.
(I am not saying Poehling's current value is that; just doing a prospect value comparable at that age.)

Two totally different players. Zary has a lot more offensive potential. Poehling is the safer bet, but has a lower ceiling.

Also if you'd asked Habs fans to throw in Poehling and a 1st on any deal 3 years ago, they would have expected a massive return.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

See, this is where we disagree.

Toffoli being a sub-30YO 55-65pts winger (top 6 RS Fwd) with SC pedigree is something NHL GMs are known to go crazy for. (esp. with such a low caphit. 4.25 for a guy that produces at that level, 30G on your 1st/2nd line is great.) You mention term, but his contract expires at age 32 before the significant drop for FWDs.

Zary is likely a 3C, or an average 2C (in his peak years) IF, and its important to say that, IF he pans out.
Like you said, he hasn't played in the NHL yet.
(But it's HFB, so prospects are always touted much higher in value.)

That 1st is also likely to be a late one (20-32nd) and those are known to be flipped like candies around TDL.

So to get rid of Lucic's caphit to better afford your core players whilst gaining a top 6 guy for the next 3 years is quite favourable for the Flames.

You're saving $1M and adding another year onto the deal. Slow your roll a bit, bud. This trade has absolutely nothing to do with freeing up $ for Tkachuk and Gaudreau. If that was your goal, you'd be flipping Lucic or something else of high cap hit for not a lot of cap back.

In terms of value, Montreal would want something more back if they're taking on Lucic, even if you assume they'll buy him out or trade him. That is work they'd have to do or money they'd have to pay to facilitate a trade that helps Calgary.

 

[McShogun99]

Doesn’t Lucic still have a NMC? Zero chance he would waive for Montreal. That would be like Thearen Fluery waiving to play for the Oilers in the 90s.

 

[Some Other Flame]

How much of a homer do you have to be to think Lucic is going to waive for Montreal right now?

Wouldn't trade Zary straight up for Toffoli. And if you'd actually watched the Flames this year, you'd realize Lucic has been good. Still overpaid but no where near a desperate cap dump situation.

Monahan for Toffoli. The Habs can flip Monahan for futures if so inclined.