That would have been a pretty serious blunder...The impact of offering the second year is that the Sedins were up for contracts in 2009-10 (the second year). Sundins second year would have prevented the Canucks from re-signing the Sedins.
Gillis was just lucky Sundin didn't sign.
Shea Weber was under contract for 3 years when free agency opened at that time so he was never an option. You need to reevaluate your entire post cause you have made up some crazy fantasy in there about how the Sundin deal prevented us from signing Shea Weber
Agree Weber was signed before the deadline and not available. There was talk among fans of the Canucks offering sheeting him but he did sign before the deadline.
But saying that totally undercuts the argument is silly. There were many better options available that Gillis might a have got with the money he was throwing at Sundin. These include Jagr, Hossa (and wouldn't that have been nice) Recchi, Selanne (65 goals the next year), Blake, Weight and others . Or with that money, Gillis could have gone after several players such as Brad Stuart, Ryder, Montador, Jackman and others. Heck for all the money he gifting Sundin, he could have just brought back Naslund and let him retire a Canuck. He got 24 goals with the Ranger and was every bit as effective as Sundin was in Vancouver.
Instead Gillis goes out the first day of free agency and makes the big splash with the Sundin offer and than waits around till Xmas to finally sign him.
Also, we are dealing here with the offer. That offer would have prevented the signing of important pieces the Canucks picked up in 2009 and would have made it difficult to re-sign important roster players. (maybe even the Sedins) Since Sundin retired after the 2008- 2009 season, saying his body was done and he couldn't play any more, that 10 million Gillis wanted to give him would have meant 10 million in dead cap space. Right now Benning is getting rightly butchered for all his dead cap space but percentage wise and even money total wise, that amount of dead cap space , which Gillis was totally willing to chance, was greater than in the present situation under Benning. It would have killed any improvement in the team and probably made it impossible for the team to make the Cup in 2011. That's how bad the Gillis offer was and again he was only bailed out by Sundin. Gillis insisted he was very willing to go along with the offer.
I'm supposing that from the lack of answers and the continued praise for Gillis's offer to the washed up Sundin (like he quit at the end of season saying his body couldn't handle the it any more) that you would have been supportive of making a $16 mill offer to Thronton this off-season. (equivalent in cap percent to Sundin's contract) I mean he is about in the same age range, certain Hall of Famer, played over 70 games for 13 out of the last 14 years, consistent point producer, banged up some, great leadership qualities, loved by all .... (sounds a lot like Sundin in 2008)
"But Sundin has had significant hip problems over the past couple of seasons. It was discovered he had a torn labrum in his hip after the 2006-07 season and while it did not require surgery and has not kept Sundin out of the lineup, he is concerned about the well-being of his hip with all the travel that is required by a west coast team and is apparently being advised that signing with Vancouver might not be his best option."
From an article by Ken Campbell in 2008. Also confirmed by Steve Simmons in a different article. Also here:
Sundin hip ailment confirmed
Sundin chose to play with it rather than having the surgery. But obvious that it effected his skating once signed here.
Barry, his agent, tried to play it down so he could get Sundin another contract and Leafs did as well b/c they wanted to trade Sundin at the deadline. But his hip issues were well known.
When Sundin retired at the end of the season he stated, "My body isn’t up to the every day wear-and-tear of the NHL anymore" and he think he knew more about his body than you seemingly think you do.
Are you trying to maintain there was no issue with the hip?
Sundin signing turned out awesome. But all Sundin had to do was agree to the contract that Gillis tendered and we lose the amazing core that the team had from 2009-2012.Coupled with what's been said already in this thread and the first hand accounts from various Canucks on the team (Kesler, Sedins, etc.) I don't know how anyone can look at the Sundin signing as a negative.
You have to dip into "what ifs" and "could have beens" to find a down side.
But he didn't sign it.Sundin signing turned out awesome. But all Sundin had to do was agree to the contract that Gillis tendered and we lose the amazing core that the team had from 2009-2012.
Gillis got lucky.
Coupled with what's been said already in this thread and the first hand accounts from various Canucks on the team (Kesler, Sedins, etc.) I don't know how anyone can look at the Sundin signing as a negative.
You have to dip into "what ifs" and "could have beens" to find a down side.
The worst contract in team history prevented them from making some magical moves in one season,?you guys are a riot.It took Sundin until Christmas to decide whether or not to play, which prevented the team from exploring other free agents.
The worst contract in team history prevented them from making some magical moves in one season,?you guys are a riot.
The worst contract was acquired, it was Ballard. Honestly, forget about the trade pieces, just removed Ballard in 2010 (you still get Hamhuis etc), it changes everything. If we're going to complain about a core killing, preventative contract it's Keith Ballard IMO.
Sundin taking until Christmas to decide blocks nothing if you want to think about it realistically, if Nashville wanted to trade you Shea Weber, you pull the Sundin offer plain and simple. It definitely didn't block them from exploring anything.
Sundin was a 1st line player for every year of his career but the one in Vancouver. He was the 20th best goal and point getter the season before he was acquired. It's more akin to going all in for Malkin than it was for Joe Thornton.
Messier never provided a moment like this for us:
But yeah, he was beyond bad at the start. I remember him looking for the oxygen tank at the end of every SHORT shift. However he did seem to FINALLY got into shape come post-season time & he (imho) was one of our better forwards.
But he didn't sign it.
Why is it lucky? What if he knew all along the 2nd year wasn't happening.
I think what's getting glossed over here, even though the Gillis part of this issue doesn't really matter to Sundin's 1yr deal having zero bad impact on the team, is that Gillis is a former player agent, with player agent connections, and knows exactly what players in Sundin's situation may have needed to hear to convince him to strap on the skates for one more year.
I think that is much more likely than....he got lucky. I can't remember the Canucks available space, but even suggesting that it ever came close to not allowing the amazing core to blossom seems ridiculous.
Like we're not sitting here arguing about Benning offering a futures package that included Boeser for 1year of Milan Lucic, we're thankful it didn't happen, but it's not the worst trade Benning made, he didn't make it.
Explaining it away as we're lucky it didn't happen, but acting like it's still as bad, seems crazy. If you want ammunition for either, it's not the hypothetical, it's the Ballard and Booth's and the Eriksson, Gudbranson, Sutter etceteras,
It took Sundin until Christmas to decide whether or not to play, which prevented the team from exploring other free agents.
The team needed a 2nd line center, I'm struggling to find who you think that free agent could have been if they had not pursued Sundin. Looking over the free agent lists for centers it's very slim pickings besides Sundin.
Unless you could have convinced Peter Forsberg to stay in north America instead of going to Sweden, or maybe Burnaby Joe with his wonky back wouldn't have stuck his hand in a lawn mower if he'd had signed in Vancouver? Sergei Fedorov wasn't leaving Russia-lite in Washington to come here.
The team needed a 2nd line center, I'm struggling to find who you think that free agent could have been if they had not pursued Sundin. Looking over the free agent lists for centers it's very slim pickings besides Sundin.
Unless you could have convinced Peter Forsberg to stay in north America instead of going to Sweden, or maybe Burnaby Joe with his wonky back wouldn't have stuck his hand in a lawn mower if he'd had signed in Vancouver? Sergei Fedorov wasn't leaving Russia-lite in Washington to come here.
How many interviews has he done? This guy is just nonexistent everywhere. By all accounts he is the first off the ice after practice. This guy offers absolutely nothing anywhere all the timeOn the latest Vancast with Thomas Drance and Jeff Paterson they did a mail bag edition and someone in their question said "In the 4 seasons that Loui Eriksson has been here, I don't think i've heard his voice once. I wouldn't be able to pick out what his voice sounds like if I heard it."
I am completely in the same boat.
He wheres good suits apparentlyHow many interviews has he done? This guy is just nonexistent everywhere. By all accounts he is the first off the ice after practice. This guy offers absolutely nothing anywhere all the time
...
Sundin is a giant in the game. Hall of Famer. Olympic gold. He clearly rubbed off on the core.