TSN: Lou Lamoriello: Leafs are using offseason LTIR
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Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
SprDaVE
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leafsfan1234
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Dermott is a lefty, he isn't in competition for Polak's spot. Polak back would mean Carrick likely sits in the press box most nights, which I'm fine with.
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Rielly - Hainsey
Dermott/Marincin - Polak/Carrick
embracedbias
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My guess is that Carrick will be traded and that Polak would take Marchenko's spot.
Also doubt that a young RH dman will take that spot because, I'm guessing, the expectation is that Dermott will make the team (they won't put two rookies on the same pairing, at least at the start of the season).
colchar
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Daly said it was used as far back as 2006 so they are hardly making it up as they go along.
leafsfan1234
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Marchenko is probably headed to the KHL, I can't see anyone trading for him. We'll probably keep Carrick and go with 8 Dmen in case of injuries. We can also send Dermott up and down from the Marlies when we want to give Carrick/Marincin some ice time.
It's not even written into the CBA
If you have a rule pertaining to the salary cap you would at least think it would be written down wouldn't you think?
Other executives admitted they didn't realize you could do that
How many other leagues or sports have you ever heard or seen anything like that?
The CyNick
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Which execs have come forward and said they didn't realize you could do this?
The language in the CBA is such that a team would interpret it to believe LTIR can count in the summer. It's the media and the fanboy types that didn't understand it. Then those fanboy types started a website quoting stuff they don't fully comprehend. Then other fanboys quoted it on places like this as fact. And the media quoted the fanboy created sites. Black eye for a lot of people. Not me mind you, but I'm very fact oriented, so I don't get caught up in things like this.
8816 others
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Is it fair to speculate that this lack of awareness may have hindered some trades. Like say some teams believing their trading partner to be more desperate because of cap issues than they actually were and keeping their demands high.
shakes
Pep City
In this very thread there was someone that wrote that, even though Lou said they could use summer LTIR, they wanted a poster on HFBoards to confirm that this was true. When you believe some random person on the internet over the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs, there is a serious problem.
It was in one of the articles that was written about the cap situation
Let's be honest here what executive is going to put his hand up and voluntarily look like a moron? Its not surprising that information like that ends up coming out in that fashion
Hell even Cap friendly that's dedicated to this type of stuff didn't even realize this was possible until the league came out and said it was possible
If it's not actually written into the rules there's going to be a ton of confusion about it that's why it's unbelievable that it is not
A lot of this stuff is up to "interpretation" which is interesting
The Pens GM has said that he was waiting for some other situations to clear up before he trades for a 3C in an article
There board believed that it's was our cap situation and Bozak potentially shaking free
That was pure speculation on there part though
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Not to mention hockey executives are hardly infallible, many are downright incompetent.
phillipmike
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Ill take Polak on a PTO. I doubt he can play a full 82... he might not be ready to play NHL games to start the season. As we saw last year in the playoffs depth on D is incredibly important.
ACC1224
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need trades then, we have one contract spot left 49/50 and we all hope that's for brown. Polak broke his leg and was slow before that its time we move on, cant give him a contract because he WAS a good soldier we cant pay for past services
You seem to be doubling down. I'm waiting for these executives you speak of.
Can't disagree with you on that one
We've had plenty of them working for the Leafs over the last two decades
Nobody is coming out on record and admitting something like that
It would look bloody terrible
And executive with the NHL had to come out and clarify LTIR use in the summer
It's not actually written in the CBA it's an "interpretation" of LTIR and it's useage
Articles come out that have other executives in them saying they didn't realize you could do that
Add the fact that most of the other teams in the league don't have anything even close to this situation and probably won't ever face it it's understandable if some front office guys haven't really bothered even looking into something like this
Especially when you can just give the NHL front office a ring at some point to clarify things if it ever comes to that
You don't have to believe it if you don't want to but if those articles seem pretty plausible
It makes a lot of sense
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The CyNick
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So in other words, no exec believed LTIR.
Funny how people can make the same mistake over and over. You're using unnamed sources and media types. The SAME people who got this story completely wrong for YEARS.
Cap friendly is just run by some fanboy, and because the media is lazy, the site took off and they treat it like fact. When if you went to the source (Lou) you would have got the real story. Instead you go to the failing media and their fake news. What a shock! Now you want to double down of their face saving BS about unnamed execs. It's comical.
The CBA is written in a way that one who read it (that's key) would interpret LTIR to not suddenly stop in the summer. That's why people in hockey were not confused by the rule (like Lou) and people outside hockey (media and message board fanboys) look like dopes right now. But the problem is nobody reads the source material. Nobody does research.
I've actually read the LTIR rules written into the CBA
I'm no lawyer but if anybody can read that and find that particular rule written into law I'd like to see it because I couldn't find it
In fact it's one of the most convoluted open for interpretation set of rules you will find for practically any sport
Nobody has actually seen it used in this fashion in the off-season before
(I can't find any examples of it anyway)
If some front office guys were surprised to see it " interpreted" in this way it's hardly shocking
If your going to start using "interpretation" your inviting this sort of conjecture not just by "fanboys" but everyone who reads the rules and interprets them differently that's what interpretation is
Lou has Pridham in his back pocket and he was actually involved in writing the CBA so that's a gigantic leg up in interpreting the LTIR rules and not every team is that lucky
Here's some stuff out of Mirtles article in the Athletic
Privately I was hearing from other teams after the Marleau signing "what the heck are they going to do" was the typical response several executives claimed as they had never seen an NHL team that close to the off-season cap while still needing to sign RFA's
The concern was if another Team offersheeted Brown the Leafs couldn't match because of lack of cap space
They had something like 3M left to spend with Brown and Hyman to resign before they hit the limit "one team said last week" before Hyman signed his new deal
"I think there in a tough spot" said another executive
The reason I didn't write this last week was in kept getting different answers as to whether the Leafs were in trouble or not the team itself according to multiple sources was not concerned which was a red flag that we were missing something
The something was that apparently the Leafs can - and already are using LTIR
That goes against what we previously believed but deputy NHL commissioner Bill Daly confirmed to the Athletic that it was allowed
"Yes they can" Daly said when asked if teams were permitted to access additional cap room in this fashion long before the season starts "same as in season"
Doesn't exactly fit your narrative does it
It was a well thought out article and you may want to go and have a good read before you call things "fake news"
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ACC1224
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I find that it would be very unlikely that those in any Organization that deal with contracts and the Cap would not have known about this.
I could easily believe that "execs" that don't deal with the Cap may not know, why would they need to?
HoweHullOrr
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Many complex, multi-part legal documents undergo processes of review, interpretation, clarification, etc. The laws and constitutions of countries are constantly going through this process is an example. It's pretty difficult to avoid and less likely that the document is perfect and does not need to undergo such processes. This is the nature of this beast.
I too have read the CBA fwiw, hence this is why I in part say the above .....
I too have read the CBA fwiw, hence this is why I in part say the above .....
Gary Nylund
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It's no joke at all. There are a lot of really dumb posts here but there are also a lot of really good posts that are much better thought out and offer much more insight than most of the garbage printed in mainstream media. I hardly even read anything about the Leafs that's not on this board. Not everything printed is garbage of course, if someone here posts a link I usually have a quick look to see if it's worth reading but other than that ...
