Prospect Info: Logan Stanley - Part III

[Spock]

Of course it is better to hit on your early picks and get lucky on your later ones. But good players out of the 7th round are always unexpected. If the team that got them had known how well they would turn out, they would have taken them earlier, rather than risk some other team getting them.

Your human half is confusing your Vulcan half on this one Spock.

I am not confused. If a player that you like is ranked outside the top 200 you don't pick them in the first round no matter how much you like them.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You have NO evidence to base this on. He would have played another OHL year based on Cheveldayoff's development plan of prospects. He would have played last year in the AHL and even if he won top defenseman which Niku did win, Niku isn't playing regularly in the NHL.

Where are you trying to go with this? I replied to a poster who tried to claim that Stanleys 5 goals in the AHL outweighed Chychrun's performance in the NHL. Are you trying to dispute that?

You want evidence to support my claim that Chychrun would likely be in the NHL with us now? He is outplaying - in the NHL, not the AHL - at least 2 of the LHD currently playing regularly for the Jets.

Winning awards in the AHL is not playing in the NHL.
Note some of the awards won by Brenden Kichton:

• 2010-2011
  • WHL (West) Second All-Star Team
  • WHL Most Assists by Defenseman (58)
  • WHL Most Points by Defenseman (81)
• 2011-2012
  • WHL (West) First All-Star Team
  • WHL Most Assists by Defenseman (57)
  • WHL Most Points by Defenseman (74)
• 2012-2013
  • WHL (West) First All-Star Team
  • WHL Most Assists by Defenseman (63)
  • WHL Most Points by Defenseman (85)
  • WHL Top Defenseman (Bill Hunter Trophy)
• 2013-2014
  • AHL All-Rookie Team
  • AHL All-Star Game
  • AHL Most Assists by Rookie (38)
  • AHL Rookie of the Month (January)

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I am not confused. If a player that you like is ranked outside the top 200 you don't pick them in the first round no matter how much you like them.

You pick a player where he is ranked on your list. You don't wait, in the hope that he will still be available after you pick some players you like less. If you rank a player outside the top 200, you don't like him.

 

[Spock]

You pick a player where he is ranked on your list. You don't wait, in the hope that he will still be available after you pick some players you like less. If you rank a player outside the top 200, you don't like him.

The key is in these cases the GMs don't rank them in their top 200, and therefore "don't like them." So unless you time travel... And, well, I've voiced the dangers of that many times before...

 

[SoCalJetsFan]

Winning a job on the Yotes may be like winning the Tallest Midget contest. As I mentioned before, if he had been drafted by the Jets he would probably still be in the AHL.

Pretty sure Stanley wins this contest

Happy to hear that he is still developing. I have no issue with him playing in the AHL for a couple of more years if that is what it takes.

 

[LucianoBorsato]

The key is in these cases the GMs don't rank them in their top 200, and therefore "don't like them." So unless you time travel... And, well, I've voiced the dangers of that many times before...

You were pretty eager for some time travel in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home...whale fetish?

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I recall there being mixed opinions on it, but some wanted us to trade up for him. Some hoped he'd fall to us and some probably didn't want him in the first round at all.
Not really relevant to this point though. Performance in the AHL =|= performance in the NHL.

I really really wanted him especially when he began to fall

 

[rubikscube]

It is funny that out of the Winnipeg Jets first 7 1st round selections, Logan Stanley is the first player being discussed as a bust. Heck, he is the only player being discussed negatively in our history. Let the guy develop his skills. Ben Chiarot was 23 when he finally made the roster and that was due to that injury plague that forced the team to trade a 6th rounder for Jay Harrison! Even at 27 Chiarot has continued to develop and fewer and fewer people complain about him.

Oh at the same points in their respective careers Scheifele was FIRMLY in the "bust" category in these parts. Heck, even a select minority were ripped in Morrissey at the same point in their careers.

 

[HannuJ]

why can't we talk about Logan Stanley without rehashing flogged, old, stale arguments about his draft position?

like...maybe someone can post and talk about his play and development instead?

 

[Spock]

You were pretty eager for some time travel in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home...whale fetish?

To my knowledge the society we are in right now does not have the proper technology.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The key is in these cases the GMs don't rank them in their top 200, and therefore "don't like them." So unless you time travel... And, well, I've voiced the dangers of that many times before...

We seem to be at cross purposes here. Is it possible that Spock just doesn't get it?

Hits in the late rounds are especially appreciated. Because you only spent a late pick getting them. But if you 'liked them', i.e. you rated them substantially higher, then you would have picked them higher. The team that drafted them is just as surprised as everybody else. No time travel required, just luck.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I really really wanted him especially when he began to fall

Yeah, me too. But mostly I was hoping someone would take Stanley before we had the chance.

 

[garret9]

I am not confused. If a player that you like is ranked outside the top 200 you don't pick them in the first round no matter how much you like them.

As one scout said to me:
There is no game theory going on as our lists vastly differ from another and it's impossible to know that someone might or might not have a random liking to one player like you enough to potentially risk your job over.

 

[garret9]

You pick a player where he is ranked on your list. You don't wait, in the hope that he will still be available after you pick some players you like less. If you rank a player outside the top 200, you don't like him.

Teams really make a list that's much larger than 70-100 players (usually) anyways.

The differences in each team's list makes things so crazy that you can usually get a player in late 70s in your list in the 7th round.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Teams really make a list that's much larger than 70-100 players (usually) anyways.

The differences in each team's list makes things so crazy that you can usually get a player in late 70s in your list in the 7th round.

Yes, I know that. That is completely outside the point. Teams don't rank a player high but not pick him, hoping he will still be there in the 7th round.

What you are talking about is other teams taking players that are not even on your list of 100 so that your 100th guy is still there at the 200th pick. But you don't leave your 50th guy there while you pick your 75th.

 

[Whileee]

Teams really make a list that's much larger than 70-100 players (usually) anyways.

The differences in each team's list makes things so crazy that you can usually get a player in late 70s in your list in the 7th round.

Did you mean "rarely" make lists larger than 70-100 players? If so, that has been my impression, too. Teams vary so much that a player selected at 200 might have been at 80-100 on a particular team's list.

 

[lomiller1]

Hindsight is 20/20

Except this isn't hindsight. People were critical of the pick specifically because there were better prospects available.

 

[lomiller1]

why can't we talk about Logan Stanley without rehashing flogged, old, stale arguments about his draft position?

How have we been told it's too early to talk about his draft position because we don't know how he'll develop. Now we can't talk about it because it's to far in the past?

 

[HannuJ]

How have we been told it's too early to talk about his draft position because we don't know how he'll develop. Now we can't talk about it because it's to far in the past?

no, because you're beating a dead horse over and f***ing over and f***ing over again.
instead, give me and others some insight on his development. tell me: how have his last 10 games been? areas you've seen improve? areas that need improvement?
yep. i thought so.

 

[Spock]

We seem to be at cross purposes here. Is it possible that Spock just doesn't get it?

Hits in the late rounds are especially appreciated. Because you only spent a late pick getting them. But if you 'liked them', i.e. you rated them substantially higher, then you would have picked them higher. The team that drafted them is just as surprised as everybody else. No time travel required, just luck.

If public rankings have a player outside of the top 200 then how many GMs are going to reach and take them 6 rounds early? That is (potentially) risking your job on one player. Of course you might take them earlier than the 7th round.

 

[Daximus]

Yes, I know that. That is completely outside the point. Teams don't rank a player high but not pick him, hoping he will still be there in the 7th round.

What you are talking about is other teams taking players that are not even on your list of 100 so that your 100th guy is still there at the 200th pick. But you don't leave your 50th guy there while you pick your 75th.

No but you can rank a player 37th. Still get 6 of your players before him and somehow he is still there in round 7. No one else will know that you had him ranked high and you cash in. Every fan thinks your lucky to get that player there instead of saying kudos for identifying that talent and ranking him within your top 40.

 

[garret9]

Did you mean "rarely" make lists larger than 70-100 players? If so, that has been my impression, too. Teams vary so much that a player selected at 200 might have been at 80-100 on a particular team's list.

Yes sorry. Typo!!

That’s typically how teams make lists.

I know that FLA recently drafted a player in a late round that wasn’t even in the system they use at the draft to put in their selections!! Haha and he was in their top 70.

 

[garret9]

no, because you're beating a dead horse over and ****ing over and ****ing over again.
instead, give me and others some insight on his development. tell me: how have his last 10 games been? areas you've seen improve? areas that need improvement?
yep. i thought so.

Except every time something good happens people say “see you were wrong”.

 

[HannuJ]

Except every time something good happens people say “see you were wrong”.

do they just post "see you were wrong" without any summary of his development, or lack thereof?
and is the "you" you specifically?

i mean, i can't be the only poster here who looks forward to intelligent analyses of players, games, etc. Talking about draft day (perceived) mistakes is no longer analysis. It's low-hanging fruit.

so i look forward to you and others providing more first-hand reports of his play on the Moose. it's what I've come to expect from quality posters such as yourself.

 

[jetsfan15]

Oh at the same points in their respective careers Scheifele was FIRMLY in the "bust" category in these parts. Heck, even a select minority were ripped in Morrissey at the same point in their careers.

This is true. Scheifele (and Morissey to an extent) were both definitely being described as “busts” by many individuals.

The reality is that many fans want “immediate” productivity, and if that doesn’t come quickly, many of them will jump to negative conclusions. Heck, Laine goes on a 2-and-a-half month slump and people are starting to say we should trade him now before it gets worst (despite the fact that he’s only 20 years old and second in goal scoring in the NHL (after Ovie) since he’s entered the league).