GDT: Locker Clean Out Day

[Ogrezilla]

I’ll be pretty shocked if Hornqvist is moved.

We’ll see, but Kessel will be scapegoated and Maatta will hopefully be moved as well.

I just can’t see any other big names being moved if those two are shipped off.

that's certainly possible too. I'd lean towards Horny staying too. And if he bounces back from the concussions, I'm happy to have him back. But there's definitely a risk in that.

 

[BladeRunner66]

lol you guys are like vultures but hey, better Bolts blow up their team before us if we can get some of their goodies!

 

[Ogrezilla]

You really think Hornqvist is going to fall off that hard? I mean, I could see it if he gets anymore freak concussion, but players of his ilk (and don’t compare him to Simmonds because that is much different) ten to succeed. I mean, Pavs or Kunitz aren’t perfect examples because they have way more creativity, both had career years at an older age than Hornqvist is right now. And they play a similar game to Hornqvist in terms of a heavy forecheck and lots of net front pressure. Neither is fleet of foot either.

I mean, I could easily see Hornqvist tearing it up with Malkin if JR does the unthinkable and moves Kessel and trades for / signs an actual fit for Malkin like say Skinner or Hoffman on the LW.

I don't think Hornqvist is going to fall off too badly. His numbers will largely depend on his PP time though. If he gets #1 time/top six time, he'll be in the 20-25 goal range. If he doesn't, he'll probably have a year more like what he did this year.

But I agree with you that a lot will depend on how we structure the lines and what players we bring in.

Hornqvist DID fall off that hard. He had 15 of his 18 goals and 26 of his 37 points in his first 34 games. He had 3 goals and 11 points in the other 33. IMO the question is if he can bounce back. I don't see it as a Kunitz situation where he's gotten old and worn down. I see it being pretty binary: either this round of concussions knocked him off a cliff, or he recovers from it and comes back as if nothing happened.

 

[K Fleur]

The Pens are going to have a relatively high 1st round pick this year(think it’s anywhere from 16-23). Silver lining to getting swept.

If JR moves the pick he better be getting something really good back(you know, like not Ryan Reaves). Especially since the Pens don’t have a pick again until round 5(?)

 

[Pancakes]

Hornqvist DID fall off that hard. IMO the question is if he can bounce back. I don't see it as a Kunitz situation where he's gotten old and worn down. I see it being pretty binary: either this round of concussions knocked him off a cliff, or he recovers from it and comes back as if nothing happened.

I think it was a combination of things because he struggled after the injury and then he got demoted in lines/pp time because of it, which hurt his numbers even more.

I agree though we'll see if that's the new normal for him or if he recovers and is back to himself next year.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hornqvist DID fall off that hard. He had 15 of his 18 goals and 26 of his 37 points in his first 34 games. He had 3 goals and 11 points in the other 33. IMO the question is if he can bounce back. I don't see it as a Kunitz situation where he's gotten old and worn down. I see it being pretty binary: either this round of concussions knocked him off a cliff, or he recovers from it and comes back as if nothing happened.

So, he struggled coming back from an injury like players do.

Did Schultz fall off?

Did Malkin fall off?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You really think Hornqvist is going to fall off that hard? I mean, I could see it if he gets anymore freak concussion, but players of his ilk (and don’t compare him to Simmonds because that is much different) ten to succeed. I mean, Pavs or Kunitz aren’t perfect examples because they have way more creativity, both had career years at an older age than Hornqvist is right now. And they play a similar game to Hornqvist in terms of a heavy forecheck and lots of net front pressure. Neither is fleet of foot either.

I mean, I could easily see Hornqvist tearing it up with Malkin if JR does the unthinkable and moves Kessel and trades for / signs an actual fit for Malkin like say Skinner or Hoffman on the LW.

Lots of people busted on Kev, but I always thought he made a great point about the Hornqvist deal being a trap.

I waffled back and forth, and thought he would be good for a couple years then when he fell off could be a buyout candidate with the new CBA.

Now it’s basically the Kessel situation... either he plays with Malkin or he’s a third liner...

Just seems like a bad fit if Guentzel takes his spot on the PP and he’s relegated to being a third liner.

That's a good possibility.

I'd love to sign Stralman to be a #6/7

Cut the fat with Hornqvist and maybe use Jarray as the bait to do it.

I’m trying to figure out if Prow gets a chance.

Offensively he’s exactly what they need. Defensively I have zero clue how he will be in the NHL... could be anywhere from JJ to competent.

Just weird because he is the Letang of WBS in terms of having to carry the offense on the back end... but there’s no buzz about him.

I guess Simon and TB got no buzz either when I talked them up and wondered why they got no love from the org... but they still got into the NHL which gives me some hope. Just a guy to keep an eye on next year.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

The Pens are going to have a relatively high 1st round pick this year(think it’s anywhere from 16-23). Silver lining to getting swept.

If JR moves the pick he better be getting something really good back(you know, like not Ryan Reaves). Especially since the Pens don’t have a pick again until round 5(?)

We have a 1st and a 5th? Oof

 

[Ogrezilla]

So, he struggled coming back from an injury like players do.

Did Schultz fall off?

Did Malkin fall off?

They haven't had like 4 concussions in the last 2 years. I love Horny, and I am not saying we need to trade him or anything, but I think there is a level of risk in his health. Add that to the fact that he hasn't consistently held a top 6 spot for two seasons and Jake is threatening his PP spot, and I get why it is worth considering moving him.

 

[K Fleur]

We have a 1st and a 5th? Oof

I’m pretty sure the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th picks were all parts of the trades to get, and get rid of Brassard

 

[Ugene Magic]

You really think Hornqvist is going to fall off that hard? I mean, I could see it if he gets anymore freak concussion, but players of his ilk (and don’t compare him to Simmonds because that is much different) ten to succeed. I mean, Pavs or Kunitz aren’t perfect examples because they have way more creativity, both had career years at an older age than Hornqvist is right now. And they play a similar game to Hornqvist in terms of a heavy forecheck and lots of net front pressure. Neither is fleet of foot either.

I mean, I could easily see Hornqvist tearing it up with Malkin if JR does the unthinkable and moves Kessel and trades for / signs an actual fit for Malkin like say Skinner or Hoffman on the LW.

Hoffman is good, but Skinner is going to command 8.0/9.0 how do you adjust for that?

 

[Ogrezilla]

Hoffman is good, but Skinner is going to command 8.0/9.0 how do you adjust for that?

Trade Phil and Maatta and replace Maatta with someone cheap?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

We have a 1st and a 5th? Oof

Have a fourth from Buf which should be high.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Trade Phil and Maatta and replace Maatta with someone cheap?

Not enough.

There's still needing to sign 5 forwards, two D-men past that with about 1.0/2.0 and they need their buffer.

Some will be cheap, but even then..

Pettersson: 1.5/2.5
Aston-Reese: cheap but still around what he's at now .925
Blueger: League minimum

One More forward and D-man even on the cheap is 1.4 /2.0

Buffer: 1.0

On the low end scale you are talking 5.4ish.

Trade out Hornqvist still doesn't get you there and you now need even another forward, even on the cheap you are short.

Sending all that out for one guy.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Not enough.

There's still needing to sign 5 forwards, two D-men past that with about 1.0/2.0 and they need their buffer.

Some will be cheap, but even then..

Pettersson: 1.5/2.5
Aston-Reese: cheap but still around what he's at now .925
Blueger: League minimum

One More forward and D-man even on the cheap is 1.4 /2.0

Buffer: 1.0

On the low end scale you are talking 5.4ish.

Trade out Hornqvist still doesn't get you there and you now need even another forward, even on the cheap you are short.

Sending all that out for one guy.

Fire JJ and Guds (sorry bro) into the sun?

 

[Gurglesons]

They haven't had like 4 concussions in the last 2 years. I love Horny, and I am not saying we need to trade him or anything, but I think there is a level of risk in his health. Add that to the fact that he hasn't consistently held a top 6 spot for two seasons and Jake is threatening his PP spot, and I get why it is worth considering moving him.

If we move Kessel, Letang like slides down there and Hornqvist stays where he is at.

And Schultz has had 3 concussions in the last three years if I am counting right.

 

[Andy99]

Order in which we should be moving out players and contracts for cap space and better (hopefully) replacements:
JJ


Maatta
Horny
Phil
Guds

 

[Ogrezilla]

If we move Kessel, Letang like slides down there and Hornqvist stays where he is at.

And Schultz has had 3 concussions in the last three years if I am counting right.

okay. So you just think it's a bad idea to consider moving Horny? And no reason at all to worry about his health? Because literally all I'm saying is that I think there's reason to consider it. I was arguing against people saying he has to go yesterday. It's so hard to have a middle-ground opinion on this damn site

Also, I definitely think Schultz has been worse the last 2 years than he was in 16-17. I don't think concussions are why, but maybe I'm wrong?

 

[Ugene Magic]

okay. So you just think it's a bad idea to consider moving Horny? And no reason at all to worry about his health? Because literally all I'm saying is that I think there's reason to consider it. I was arguing against people saying he has to go yesterday. It's so hard to have a middle-ground opinion on this damn site

Also, I definitely think Schultz has been worse the last 2 years than he was in 16-17. I don't think concussions are why, but maybe I'm wrong?

This teams makeup totally changed from then and with injuries making things worse. That D-corps was really good and had guys like Schultz in the support 3rd pairing role. I think Schultz is fine, and the team as a whole got worse. Especially on D.

It's not even close to...

Dumoulin, Letang
Maatta, Daley
Cole, Schultz

Good.

Dumoulin, Letang
Pettersson, Schultz
Johnson, Gudbranson
Maatta

They don't have the PMD/DD set up they think they have. There is no PMD on the 3rd pairing. Not one who can effectively skate the puck out.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If the Penguins are insisting on keeping Johnson, I'd be tempted to try him and Gudbranson together on the bottom pair and running the hell out of Pettersson-Letang and Dumoulin-Schultz as my top-4. Sure, that bottom pair is Scuderi-Gill caliber in puck moving, but you're at least limiting the damage to 1 pair.

 

[Ogrezilla]

This teams makeup totally changed from then and with injuries making things worse. That D-corps was really good and had guys like Schultz in the support 3rd pairing role. I think Schultz is fine, and the team as a whole got worse. Especially on D.

It's not even close to...

Dumoulin, Letang
Maatta, Daley
Cole, Schultz

Good.

Dumoulin, Letang
Pettersson, Schultz
Johnson, Gudbranson
Maatta

They don't have the PMD/DD set up they think they have. There is no PMD on the 3rd pairing. Not one who can effectively skate the puck out.

Letang wasn't playing then though, and Schultz was still clearly better than he's been since.

Our 2nd pair doesn't have anyone who can effectively skate the puck out either. It hasn't since we lost Daley. I don't dislike Schultz, but that's not something he's good at.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Hornqvist DID fall off that hard. He had 15 of his 18 goals and 26 of his 37 points in his first 34 games. He had 3 goals and 11 points in the other 33. IMO the question is if he can bounce back. I don't see it as a Kunitz situation where he's gotten old and worn down. I see it being pretty binary: either this round of concussions knocked him off a cliff, or he recovers from it and comes back as if nothing happened.

Agree and hope you're right. The last concussion and fall off wasn't very long after he scored the fastest hat trick in Pens history.

 

[66-30-33]

Have a fourth from Buf which should be high.

Thanks for nothing Sheary, could have been a high 3rd.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Letang wasn't playing then though, and Schultz was still clearly better than he's been since.

Our 2nd pair doesn't have anyone who can effectively skate the puck out either. It hasn't since we lost Daley. I don't dislike Schultz, but that's not something he's good at.

The Schultz and Cole pairing was at its best. Maatta and Schultz was okay for a bit, but that's where the skating dies. Cole was a good skater and also managed the puck well enough. Schultz isn't top or elite at skating, but he was fluent enough to skate it out.

 

[Ogrezilla]

The Schultz and Cole pairing was at its best. Maatta and Schultz was okay for a bit, but that's where the skating dies. Cole was a good skater and also managed the puck well enough. Schultz isn't top or elite at skating, but he was fluent enough to skate it out.

sadly, he isn't great at being the only guy on his line able to do it. Need to get some help for the 2nd pair. Even if it's Petts.