Salary Cap: Little to no cap increase the next four years

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I don't think it's hard to sell Hall on signing with Detroit. He's a mercenary. He's going to chase the money.

Bookmark this: I'm betting Taylor Hall takes another 1 year deal next season to the highest bidder instead of a Hossa 1-year deal for less money to a cup contender. Either with Ottawa, LA or Detroit, or a similar basement dweller.

But he didn't. Taking a 1 year contact isn't being money-centric, it's the opposite. As we all know, NHL contracts are guaranteed money. When you take that long term deal, you're safe and set. A 1 year deal, you get hurt, and that's it. It's actually unnecessarily risky for Hall to do that.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

- Red Wings trade LW Tyler Bertuzzi, LW/RW Anthony Mantha, LW/C Robbie Fabbri, 2021 1st rdp, and 2022 1st round pick.

- Sabres trade C Jack Eichel and LW Jeff Skinner with 2.5 million dollar salary retention.


Jack Eichel. Skinner is now a 6.5 million dollar annual cap hit. 2 of the next 3 season his salary will be paid by Buffalo, which might perk ownership. Makes it easier to buyout the last three years of his deal. Red Wings don't give up a major prospects but two 1st rdp, a high lottery one this year. Red Wings are having a ton of money coming off the books/cap and can kind of afford to take on a guy like this if it means getting Eichel. I mean they still have enough money to sign another 6-8 million dollar player if they wanted to.

Buffalo gets three quality Wingers to fill out the roster, shed tons of cap money to resign/sign players. Can put together and overall better team by just signing someone like Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, imo, with all this winger depth, and picks.

Kind of a win - win for both organizations here. Wings weaponizing the cap in a Jack Eichel move.

I'm going to have to ask you to leave.

 

[MBH]

You don't think yzerman could sell himself and the Wings over a franchise that has been mired in a rebuild for years, went through multiple GMs/coaches, etc.? Especially when Yzerman should be able to point to tampa and say, "hey, I did that." With Ottawa, Dadonov. He'd be our third highest scorer and a big upgrade to our forward corp.

And we don't know, but by all reports we didn't even try and folks around here are arguing against it regardless. I think folks are too obsessed with the draft as the only means for bettering this team.

One good player - even Hall - won't dramatically change the team, either
One good player, a new coach, and growth from other players? That might change things a bit.

 

[Snuggs]

I'm going to have to ask you to leave.

Right... like you are in charge or own something here...

 

[Gniwder]

One good player - even Hall - won't dramatically change the team, either
One good player, a new coach, and growth from other players? That might change things a bit.

Grabbing players simply because the team has money is a mistake. There has to be a long term plan.

This team doesn't need wingers, oddly the same people who say Raymond is "elite" want to buy Hall. Why do we need Hall if Raymond is elite?

Everyone knows the obvious needs, 1C and top pair LHD, neither which are available in 2021. Gotta save the cap space for the big signings then pick up other pieces afterwards, not vice versa. If the cap isn't going up for 4 years, the team needs to be looking at all of the players available in UFA the next 4 years, not just this one.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Right... like you are in charge or own something here...

I'm just joking. Although that was my reaction when I first read the proposal.

 

[MBH]

Grabbing players simply because the team has money is a mistake. There has to be a long term plan.

This team doesn't need wingers, oddly the same people who say Raymond is "elite" want to buy Hall. Why do we need Hall if Raymond is elite?

Everyone knows the obvious needs, 1C and top pair LHD, neither which are available in 2021. Gotta save the cap space for the big signings then pick up other pieces afterwards, not vice versa. If the cap isn't going up for 4 years, the team needs to be looking at all of the players available in UFA the next 4 years, not just this one.

1) Raymond is years from being elite, if he's ever elite.
2) I would not advocate spending for Hall in a regular market. But Hall looks like the best player on the market and if you can get him on a friendly deal, why not?
3) Nobody's grabbing players just because we have money. That's the Frans Nielsen, Mikeal Samuelsson, Trevor Daley approach. Taylor Hall is a completely different caliber
4) Taylor Hall doesn't need a big-name center to score goals. He gives you a viable 2nd line nearly all by himself - if he's playing well. You'd need to do due diligence and make sure he's not past it. I'd also limit the number of years he's signed for.
5) We have one of the most anemic offenses in the NHL.

We know we're probably going to lose
1) Bobby Ryan
2) Darren Helm
3) Valterri Filppula (mostly played wing this year)
4) Sam Gagner
5) Evgeny Svechnikov

Why not give Zadina a f***ing talent to play with?

 

[kliq]

But he didn't. Taking a 1 year contact isn't being money-centric, it's the opposite. As we all know, NHL contracts are guaranteed money. When you take that long term deal, you're safe and set. A 1 year deal, you get hurt, and that's it. It's actually unnecessarily risky for Hall to do that.

If I remember correctly, Hall took a 1 year deal because he wasn't offered the type of money on a long term deal that he wanted. Speculation at the time was that he signed a one year deal hoping to play with an elite centre in Eichel in an effort to boost his stats this year and hopefully land that big contract after the season. Unfortunately for Hall, that plan blew up as Eichel is having a season from hell, and the market has not rebounded like he had hoped. I think next year he goes to either the highest bidder (not us) or a contender because the guy has got to be sick of loosing (also not us). I'd be shocked if he signed with us unless he still has ties to Windsor which I don't believe he does.

 

[Henkka]

Grabbing players simply because the team has money is a mistake. There has to be a long term plan.

This team doesn't need wingers, oddly the same people who say Raymond is "elite" want to buy Hall. Why do we need Hall if Raymond is elite?.

Exactly.

Like, our problem is those old bad contracts. Those have to die first, before we can start bolstering with new UFAs. If we have these both, old contracts, and start signing new ones, there's no room for prospects. There has to be some slots, but not all given for kids. Some good mix, kids learning from pros. We have good pro examples there currently, who suffer on-ice. That's a pity, but also it also completes our tanking purposes. That's the reality we have to live with. But it will change very soon. It's only Nielsen as dead weight after next off-season.

 

[Winger98]

One good player - even Hall - won't dramatically change the team, either
One good player, a new coach, and growth from other players? That might change things a bit.

Exactly. Seider is going to be on the team next year, go get him a real partner and not Dekeyser with Merrill behind him. we have a bunch of guys coming up who are natural wings, get a decent center to hold down a spot in the middle6 until either Rasmussen/Veleno move up to take that spot or we get someone better someone else.

For all of the concern about cap space, part of Yzerman's job is moving pieces on and off the roster and dealing guys is something he excelled at in Tampa. It's one of the things folks held up as one of his strong suits that would make the wings better. If we sign a guy like Danault and feel like moving him a couple of years later, Yzerman needs to make that happen and we should have the confidence in him being able to adjust the roster at that point.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I understand the concept. My concern is how willing Ilitch will be to take on bad salaries to get assets. He's not exactly as free with his money as his father was.

Mike had talent worth paying up to the cap. Chris....does not. I am fine with weaponizing cap space, we are well positioned to draft well and get additional assets from teams that need to get cap compliant. What do you want, for us to be near the cap with a team that maybe finishes in 24th place with poorer draft position and no ability to use cap space to our advantage?

 

[Run the Jewels]

Not sure what people are talking about with regard to Yzerman not signing UFAs or making trades. He has incrementally improved the worst team in the league that was in cap hell.

Bobby Ryan: UFA, 3rd leading scorer
Robby Fabbri: acquired via trade, 5th leading scorer
Vladislav Namestnikov: UFA, 7th leading scorer
Sam Gagner: UFA, 8th leading scorer

40% of our top 10 scoring guys were acquired via UFA or trade.

Jon Merrill: UFA, 2nd in TOI
Patrick Nemeth : UFA, 5th inTOI
Marc Staal: trade, 6th in TOI
Troy Stetcher: UFA, 8th in TOI
Robby Fabbri: trade, 10th in TOI

Half of our top 10 leaders in TOI were acquired via UFA or trade.

Both of our goalies were acquired via UFA.

Are people really upset because we didn't spend $45 million on Torey Krug? Maybe he just didn't want to come here.

 

[Gniwder]

1) Raymond is years from being elite, if he's ever elite.
2) I would not advocate spending for Hall in a regular market. But Hall looks like the best player on the market and if you can get him on a friendly deal, why not?
3) Nobody's grabbing players just because we have money. That's the Frans Nielsen, Mikeal Samuelsson, Trevor Daley approach. Taylor Hall is a completely different caliber
4) Taylor Hall doesn't need a big-name center to score goals. He gives you a viable 2nd line nearly all by himself - if he's playing well. You'd need to do due diligence and make sure he's not past it. I'd also limit the number of years he's signed for.
5) We have one of the most anemic offenses in the NHL.

We know we're probably going to lose
1) Bobby Ryan
2) Darren Helm
3) Valterri Filppula (mostly played wing this year)
4) Sam Gagner
5) Evgeny Svechnikov

Why not give Zadina a f***ing talent to play with?

1) I was being facetious because the word is so overused here.
5) So we should draft wide receivers in the first round for 3 years in a row? This team needs a 1C not a winger.

I hope they re-sign Bobby, the rest I don't care about. Bobby and Robby look good together.

 

[Gniwder]

Exactly. Seider is going to be on the team next year, go get him a real partner and not Dekeyser with Merrill behind him. we have a bunch of guys coming up who are natural wings, get a decent center to hold down a spot in the middle6 until either Rasmussen/Veleno move up to take that spot or we get someone better someone else.

Oddly, all of the desirable UFA D this offseason are righties. The only LHD I'd want is maybe Alec Martinez (2 yrs at most since he's 34). I think the more likely scenario is that Stevie looks for a budget deal like Jordan Oesterle, who went to WMU. (Gotta have that Michigan tie.)

2021 NHL Free Agents Tracker

 

[MBH]

1) I was being facetious because the word is so overused here.
5) So we should draft wide receivers in the first round for 3 years in a row? This team needs a 1C not a winger.

I hope they re-sign Bobby, the rest I don't care about. Bobby and Robby look good together.

So you want Bobby Ryan but not Taylor Hall.
OK.

 

[Winger98]

Oddly, all of the desirable UFA D this offseason are righties. The only LHD I'd want is maybe Alec Martinez (2 yrs at most since he's 34). I think the more likely scenario is that Stevie looks for a budget deal like Jordan Oesterle, who went to WMU. (Gotta have that Michigan tie.)

2021 NHL Free Agents Tracker

I'd take Edler, too. I wouldn't mind seeing us run something like:

Edler/Martinez-Seider
Dekeyser-Hronek
Cholowski-Stecher
Lindstrom

Oddly enough, I think Merrill would be my third choice.

 

[RedWingsfan55]

People hated when Holland spent to the cap and we still sucked.

Isn’t this better? Why should we be spending to the cap right now?

It seems like being less trigger happy in free agency and having more cap flexibility is a good thing right now. To me it’s being “smart”, not “cheap”.

Tigers fan saying the same thing.

Nevermind the fact we just laid out 65m for numerous years to players no long on the team and Miggy. Or shortened seasons with no fans, the tigers still get a majority of their income from ticket tickets(believe 80 million in ticket sales with TV at 60 million).

I believe Illitch wants to win, but is going about it smartly. Tanking for a few years in both sports is the BEST way to get superstars.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Taylor Hall has 18 goals his past 90 games played (20 in 99 if you count playoffs). I get that he’s transitioned to a decent playmaking winger but any illusion he is the same Taylor Hall that commanded north of 8 million isn’t keeping up with his current trajectory. If we can get him for something like 4 years 24 million, sure, but he is not the guy I am looking at for a long term or overly high paid deal. He is not that caliber player anymore

Speed based players can regress seemingly overnight.

 

[Snuggs]

Tigers fan saying the same thing.

Nevermind the fact we just laid out 65m for numerous years to players no long on the team and Miggy. Or shortened seasons with no fans, the tigers still get a majority of their income from ticket tickets(believe 80 million in ticket sales with TV at 60 million).

I believe Illitch wants to win, but is going about it smartly. Tanking for a few years in both sports is the BEST way to get superstars.

Not sure we're saying spend to the cap. At all. Just add talent. Could of gotten someone really talented with the money used on Staal/Namestikov. Instead we spent 9 million on these two...

TBH I'm not mad about this year but with money clearing the next two years, and prospects rising we should add talent to play with them to further enhance development instead of playing with Bromes/Namestikovs/Helms/Nielsens. Which I think hinders players vs helps them(when they play with bad/average players)

Also no one cares if you spend money just if you do it wrong like on Abdelkader/etc etc etc like Holland did. The complaints are more nuanced than the paint brush you and the poster you responded to are stroking.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Not sure we're saying spend to the cap. At all. Just add talent. Could of gotten someone really talented with the money used on Staal/Namestikov. Instead we spent 9 million on these two...

TBH I'm not mad about this year but with money clearing the next two years, and prospects rising we should add talent to play with them to further enhance development instead of playing with Bromes/Namestikovs/Helms/Nielsens. Which I think hinders players vs helps them(when they play with bad/average players)

Also no one cares if you spend money just if you do it wrong like on Abdelkader/etc etc etc like Holland did. The complaints are more nuanced than the paint brush you and the poster you responded to are stroking.

I have no problem spending big money on a guy like Wreneski who will be an elite player from the first game he suits up in Detroit. I don't understand the need to pay top dollar for guys who are not elite and will likely be on the downside of their career when we are finally starting to ramp back up. In my opinion Yzerman has handled this well, he is bringing in guys on short-term deals to keep the team from turning into a complete joke.

I think you will have more success signing big-time UFAs when you are addressing holes in the roster after you have built your team through the draft. I can't see the benefit of blowing cap space right now, particularly if the cap is going to remain flat. Weaponize your cap space if you like, but fill the roster with low cost vets who can keep us "competitive" without cratering the franchise further than it has already been.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

So you want Bobby Ryan but not Taylor Hall.
OK.

One costs around 1x1, 2x2, or something like that. The other would probably cost you 5x8 or more. They're not even remotely in the same ballpark.

If Taylor Hall is out there for a reasonable contract? You'd be a fool to not look to add him. But the Wings really aren't in a spot, even with oodles of cap space and oodles of roster spots to sink themselves into a long term, high dollar contract for a guy unless he's a no-brainer. It's the same idea of 2016 when Steven Stamkos is potentially on the market. You free up 10M plus and hope to make a run at him. Tavares. Free up 11 plus and hope to make a run at him. But the whole thing that the Wings have done since Yzerman got here is build the flexibility to make a big move. Taylor Hall a couple years removed from an MVP run is not a worthwhile big pond dip. Bobby Ryan after a reclamation season and signing him for another pittance is.

 

[Gniwder]

So you want Bobby Ryan but not Taylor Hall.
OK.

In terms of value for the contract, it's actually a no brainer.

Not to mention I think the team needs a veteran presence to mentor the kids, and Ryan fits the bill. Certainly better than having Nielsen, Helm, Abby, and Flip as veteran presence. I'm sure he's telling Zadina the same thing we are.... shoot the f'ing puck.