Salary Cap: Little to no cap increase the next four years

[Winger98]

Why would the free agents that would actually elevate this team want to sign here?

I would have loved to sign Torey Krug last off-season. Why would he sign here over St. Louis? I would have loved to sign TJ Brodie. Why would he want to sign here over Toronto?

The last time we were hellbent on spending to the cap in the off-season was 2016. We made a run at guys that would actually make a splash like Stamkos, then when they turned us down we resorted to signing Nielsen, and extending Helm and Dekeyser. That is most likely what is going to happen if we spend to the cap in our current situation. Sign middling UFAs and overpay our own guys. Been there, done that.

I don't think this is a necessarily good alternative to what we have done, or would lead to us being in a different place than where we are. The only thing that would keep this team from continuing to be in the basement is better lottery luck, and we haven't gotten it.

This argument a little hollow considering organizations with long histories of being trash fires like Buffalo and Ottawa were able to haul in decent players through free agency. Could we get Krug for $6.5m? I doubt it, but $7-7.5? Yeah, I think we could have inked him for that, especially since he's a local kid.

And who said anything about spending to the cap? How about we just not deal for Marc Staal and sign Namestnikov? Right there is your money for a far more impactful D and we're breaking even on what we spent. Or keep Namestnikov and have a cap of $74m instead of $72.

Waiting for lottery luck is going to be the long way towards what everyone is chicken littling - mediocrity.

 

[Frk It]

This argument a little hollow considering organizations with long histories of being trash fires like Buffalo and Ottawa were able to haul in decent players through free agency. Could we get Krug for $6.5m? I doubt it, but $7-7.5? Yeah, I think we could have inked him for that, especially since he's a local kid.

And who said anything about spending to the cap? How about we just not deal for Marc Staal and sign Namestnikov? Right there is your money for a far more impactful D and we're breaking even on what we spent. Or keep Namestnikov and have a cap of $74m instead of $72.

Waiting for lottery luck is going to be the long way towards what everyone is chicken littling - mediocrity.

A little harder to sell Taylor Hall on playing on Larkin's wing vs Eichel's wing.

How do we know 1 more million makes Krug want to come here? He played his whole career for a good team in Boston.
Who has Ottawa brought in via free agency that's worth a damn?

I guess I would need to know what specific moves you think we should have made the last few years that we haven't.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

A little harder to sell Taylor Hall on playing on Larkin's wing vs Eichel's wing.

How do we know 1 more million makes Krug want to come here? He played his whole career for a good team in Boston.
Who has Ottawa brought in via free agency that's worth a damn?

I guess I would need to know what specific moves you think we should have made the last few years that we haven't.

I don't think it's hard to sell Hall on signing with Detroit. He's a mercenary. He's going to chase the money.

Bookmark this: I'm betting Taylor Hall takes another 1 year deal next season to the highest bidder instead of a Hossa 1-year deal for less money to a cup contender. Either with Ottawa, LA or Detroit, or a similar basement dweller.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

One way to look at it is like this:

With a flat cap and the insane amount of expiring contracts we have coming off the books Detroit may find itself with a unique opportunity to rebuild from zero almost like it were an expansion team.

With the mix of kids we have coming in hopefully over the next 2 seasons, plus the number of FAs and buyouts over the next 2-3 years as well as "Please take my trash!" trades, we might be able to Vegas our way into being a good team again quickly.

Yep, the capspace weaponization will be fully operational & will make the Death Star's annihilation of Alderaan look like a fire cracker. SY=Vader.

When the tide eventually turns some will wonder how it was possible so quickly, after being subpar/bad for so long. It was incremental & therefore much less noticeable, especially HF fanatics like us, who are glued to the daily minutae of it all. Churn & burn!

 

[MBH]

It's not just that, though. It's putting quality players around the young guys, giving them good players to learn from and to have a mentality in the locker room and the organization that is more conducive to quality hockey. The farther you allow an organization to fall, I think it just gets harder to build it back up and that you start having to fight problems that go beyond a talent gap.

True.
I also want to see decent hockey.
I want to see playmakers do their thing.
Above all, hockey, win or lose, should be entertainment.

 

[Henkka]

No, this team needs to improve next season. Not "sell our futures" type of aggressive approach to improving, but we can't head into next season without the goal to improve.

If you ice a "kid team" those usually have hot starts. But if season is normal with 82-games, those kids would hit a wall at 50-game mark. Like Larkin did as a rookie. The whole team would not be collectively ready for long season. But hot start would be possible. That would create some new hope, think it could work mentally well, because many hypes are based at the start part of the season.

We could be at playoff hunt for that spot, then "hitting the wall" and again being sellers/lottery team. Suffering at last 30 games.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Well we saw it this year with Staal. Maybe he doesn’t spend right to the cap, but I have to imagine he’s willing to spend to a degree.

Staal's actual money owed was covered by the savings on Abdelkader's buyout. I am curious to see where we are on this in the summer. I am not sure we need to spend a ton, but I am cautious of Chris Ilitch and honestly nothing I hear from people eases that fear.

I think he will have no problem spending on a winner turning profits and I think Stevie can get us back there. But still this isn't Mike Ilitch and I understand the worry some people have and others are being very dismissive of. We needed to rebuild both teams, but we need a plan out of this and I hope he has one for both Ilitch teams. Tigers are starting to track in a direction of hope. We will see, important stretch right now to get us out of the ditch.

 

[Winger98]

A little harder to sell Taylor Hall on playing on Larkin's wing vs Eichel's wing.

How do we know 1 more million makes Krug want to come here? He played his whole career for a good team in Boston.
Who has Ottawa brought in via free agency that's worth a damn?

I guess I would need to know what specific moves you think we should have made the last few years that we haven't.

You don't think yzerman could sell himself and the Wings over a franchise that has been mired in a rebuild for years, went through multiple GMs/coaches, etc.? Especially when Yzerman should be able to point to tampa and say, "hey, I did that." With Ottawa, Dadonov. He'd be our third highest scorer and a big upgrade to our forward corp.

And we don't know, but by all reports we didn't even try and folks around here are arguing against it regardless. I think folks are too obsessed with the draft as the only means for bettering this team.

 

[Frk It]

You don't think yzerman could sell himself and the Wings over a franchise that has been mired in a rebuild for years, went through multiple GMs/coaches, etc.? Especially when Yzerman should be able to point to tampa and say, "hey, I did that." With Ottawa, Dadonov. He'd be our third highest scorer and a big upgrade to our forward corp.

And we don't know, but by all reports we didn't even try and folks around here are arguing against it regardless. I think folks are too obsessed with the draft as the only means for bettering this team.

I agree with your last paragraph here, for sure.

I was a big proponent on adding Krug last off-season. I don’t think we are going to be able to build every aspect of this team via our draft picks, even with the amount of picks we have had.

It seems folks here think if we just stockpile enough cap space + picks that will build us into a winner, and I don’t think thats how it works. Not with this shit lottery system.

I guess I would like to hear that we are pursuing more of these free agents, I just have a hard time seeing us land the guys I want. I don’t know, being in the basement has me pretty pessimistic I suppose.

 

[Gniwder]

No, this team needs to improve next season. Not "sell our futures" type of aggressive approach to improving, but we can't head into next season without the goal to improve.

So we throw away 4 seasons but not willing to throw away one more?

In any other circumstance I would agree with you but between the 2022 UFA class and 2022 draft, I'd be OK with one more tank.

 

[WF19]

Between deadline this year, the draft , the cap space mix that with a few guys now, Seider, Raymond, this years top pick. When Blashill if fired this is when Yzerman makes his make. New coach, essentially a gm that will finally call it his team. We're gonna be good im telling you. Like bottom to contender good and quick. That has appeal for free agents

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

So we throw away 4 seasons but not willing to throw away one more?

In any other circumstance I would agree with you but between the 2022 UFA class and 2022 draft, I'd be OK with one more tank.

We don't have to be intentionally the worst team in hockey though as that won't help you much in 2022. We need to look like we have a plan to get better. With the news being the worst still probably just means #3 overall and I like some of the 2022 guys but that means we just stare at Wright and Lambert to other teams... We aren't going to just switch this thing over night. Yzerman has some tough decisions to be sure, but we need to find a way to start getting more and more talent on this team. Trades and free agency are a part of that, it cannot all be on the draft even if that is most important.

 

[Gniwder]

We don't have to be intentionally the worst team in hockey though as that won't help you much in 2022. We need to look like we have a plan to get better. With the news being the worst still probably just means #3 overall and I like some of the 2022 guys but that means we just stare at Wright and Lambert to other teams... We aren't going to just switch this thing over night. Yzerman has some tough decisions to be sure, but we need to find a way to start getting more and more talent on this team. Trades and free agency are a part of that, it cannot all be on the draft even if that is most important.

I watched both the Penguins and Caps rebuild, neither signed a big UFA until after they got their generational talent.

The team is missing a 1C and top pair LHD. Unless the free agent fills in one of those holes, it's meaningless. I don't see a single guy I want in 2021, whereas 2022 has Forsberg and Barkov.

Taylor Hall doesn't move the needle without a legit 1C.

 

[Pavels Dog]

So we throw away 4 seasons but not willing to throw away one more?

In any other circumstance I would agree with you but between the 2022 UFA class and 2022 draft, I'd be OK with one more tank.

I'm all-in on playing the youngsters but I also want a coaching change and some actual desire to try and improve. Let the chips fall where they may. If that's a top 3 pick, or a pick in the #5-10 range (I doubt we could get much lower than that), I'm fine either way.
Too easy to get stuck in eternal rebuilds by thinking the NEXT draft is the last one you need. What if that 2022 draft class isn't as good as we think? What if the 2021 class is better than we think?

 

[Gniwder]

I'm all-in on playing the youngsters but I also want a coaching change and some actual desire to try and improve. Let the chips fall where they may. If that's a top 3 pick, or a pick in the #5-10 range (I doubt we could get much lower than that), I'm fine either way.
Too easy to get stuck in eternal rebuilds by thinking the NEXT draft is the last one you need. What if that 2022 draft class isn't as good as we think? What if the 2021 class is better than we think?

I'm actually for signing Forsberg or Barkov in 2022. Is there a comparable 1C in 2021? (Don't say RNH, I will laugh at you)

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I'm actually for signing Forsberg or Barkov in 2022. Is there a comparable 1C in 2021? (Don't say RNH, I will laugh at you)

Danault as a 2C, but that's about it.

There might be some interesting buyouts and voided contracts in the offseason because of the flat cap. Rumor has it Evander Kane and San Jose might void his contract to avoid having to pay debt collectors. He's just the kind of guy I'd want to have mentor our young kids.

 

[Gniwder]

Danault as a 2C, but that's about it.

There might be some interesting buyouts and voided contracts in the offseason because of the flat cap. Rumor has it Evander Kane and San Jose might void his contract to avoid having to pay debt collectors. He's just the kind of guy I'd want to have mentor our young kids.

This team doesn't need a 2C, it needs a 1C. Then Larkin can be bumped down as 2C, Fabbri as 3C, and any number of guys can play 4C. Then the team has center depth. You want centers that can slot up one line in case of injury.

Look at the 2022 UFA list, it's a lot better than 2021.

 

[MBH]

A little harder to sell Taylor Hall on playing on Larkin's wing vs Eichel's wing.

How do we know 1 more million makes Krug want to come here? He played his whole career for a good team in Boston.
Who has Ottawa brought in via free agency that's worth a damn?

I guess I would need to know what specific moves you think we should have made the last few years that we haven't.

After playing with Eichel, maybe not.

I watched both the Penguins and Caps rebuild, neither signed a big UFA until after they got their generational talent.

The team is missing a 1C and top pair LHD. Unless the free agent fills in one of those holes, it's meaningless. I don't see a single guy I want in 2021, whereas 2022 has Forsberg and Barkov.

Taylor Hall doesn't move the needle without a legit 1C.

Taylor Hall plays his best hockey without a legit #1C.

 

[Snuggs]

- Red Wings trade LW Tyler Bertuzzi, LW/RW Anthony Mantha, LW/C Robbie Fabbri, 2021 1st rdp, and 2022 1st round pick.

- Sabres trade C Jack Eichel and LW Jeff Skinner with 2.5 million dollar salary retention.


Jack Eichel. Skinner is now a 6.5 million dollar annual cap hit. 2 of the next 3 season his salary will be paid by Buffalo, which might perk ownership. Makes it easier to buyout the last three years of his deal. Red Wings don't give up a major prospects but two 1st rdp, a high lottery one this year. Red Wings are having a ton of money coming off the books/cap and can kind of afford to take on a guy like this if it means getting Eichel. I mean they still have enough money to sign another 6-8 million dollar player if they wanted to.

Buffalo gets three quality Wingers to fill out the roster, shed tons of cap money to resign/sign players. Can put together and overall better team by just signing someone like Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, imo, with all this winger depth, and picks.

Kind of a win - win for both organizations here. Wings weaponizing the cap in a Jack Eichel move.

 

[StargateSG1]

- Red Wings trade LW Tyler Bertuzzi, LW/RW Anthony Mantha, LW/C Robbie Fabbri, 2021 1st rdp, and 2022 1st round pick.

- Sabres trade C Jack Eichel and LW Jeff Skinner with 2.5 million dollar salary retention.


Jack Eichel. Skinner is now a 6.5 million dollar annual cap hit. 2 of the next 3 season his salary will be paid by Buffalo, which might perk ownership. Makes it easier to buyout the last three years of his deal. Red Wings don't give up a major prospects but two 1st rdp, a high lottery one this year. Red Wings are having a ton of money coming off the books/cap and can kind of afford to take on a guy like this if it means getting Eichel. I mean they still have enough money to sign another 6-8 million dollar player if they wanted to.

Buffalo gets three quality Wingers to fill out the roster, shed tons of cap money to resign/sign players. Can put together and overall better team by just signing someone like Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, imo, with all this winger depth, and picks.

Kind of a win - win for both organizations here. Wings weaponizing the cap in a Jack Eichel move.

This is not just a NO! This is a HELL NO!

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

It might be smart to spend some of that money on underpriced UFAs this offseason.
They'll never be cheaper.

My problem this year was signing shit guys to do jobs rookies or youngsters could do.

Taylor Hall could be a nice add at a very reasonable price.

No thanks on Hall.

 

[Snuggs]

This is not just a NO! This is a HELL NO!

Is that not like the right value for Jack Eichel or you just a big pass on Eichel to begin with?

It's ok, either way I'm just trying to understand. Red Wings kept Zadina/Raymond/Seider/Larkin and got Eichel. 1st round picks are tough but they're not guaranteed top overall picks... (as we too often already know.) They'd have around 30 million still to spend even with the Eichel/Skinner additions.

You are coming at me hot, just trying to figure out the hate. Anyone that's just a total pass on Eichel and trust the process. I understand and get.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

- Red Wings trade LW Tyler Bertuzzi, LW/RW Anthony Mantha, LW/C Robbie Fabbri, 2021 1st rdp, and 2022 1st round pick.

- Sabres trade C Jack Eichel and LW Jeff Skinner with 2.5 million dollar salary retention.


Jack Eichel. Skinner is now a 6.5 million dollar annual cap hit. 2 of the next 3 season his salary will be paid by Buffalo, which might perk ownership. Makes it easier to buyout the last three years of his deal. Red Wings don't give up a major prospects but two 1st rdp, a high lottery one this year. Red Wings are having a ton of money coming off the books/cap and can kind of afford to take on a guy like this if it means getting Eichel. I mean they still have enough money to sign another 6-8 million dollar player if they wanted to.

Buffalo gets three quality Wingers to fill out the roster, shed tons of cap money to resign/sign players. Can put together and overall better team by just signing someone like Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, imo, with all this winger depth, and picks.

Kind of a win - win for both organizations here. Wings weaponizing the cap in a Jack Eichel move.

Awful for Detroit. Skinner is THEE worst contract in the league, huge negative asset. So you're basically trading away MBF+2 1sts for Eichel, which is still also way overpay. Take out the '22 1st & Fabbri. Mantha+Bert+'21 1st for Eichel & that is borderline overpay imo.

 

[Snuggs]

No thanks on Hall.

Yeah, maybe a no on Hall, but I agree with him at some point talent has to be signed/brought in. It'll be insane to watch a team with 45 million in cap go out and make 2 more Marc Staal type moves and watch no one get any better within our core again for another season while we chance another lottery pick selection.

Eventually you'll have to ask are we even really trying outside the draft?

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Yeah, maybe a no on Hall, but I agree with him at some point talent has to be signed/brought in. It'll be insane to watch a team with 45 million in cap go out and make 2 more Marc Staal type moves and watch no one get any better within our core again for another season while we chance another lottery pick selection.

Eventually you'll have to ask are we even really trying outside the draft?

I can get on board with signing players that make this team better, but not Hall.