Lineup as of now with caphit??

[Gary Nylund]

I think our best forwards last year were Winnik, Santorelli, and Komorov (and I'd add Kadri to that list but I think he can get better still). Holland I think did pretty well all things considered (like playing with Clarkson).

None of those three (Winnik, Santorelli, and Komorov) are the most talented, or the most skilled. But I think they probably worked the hardest out there and that's what made the difference.

Loading your top 6 up with all your skill players, and having all your bottom 6 players be grinders isn't necessarily the optimal strategy.

If our top line is going up against someone else's top line, maybe we want a guy like Komorov or Winnik on there who can actually play some defense and shut them down. We can't have our top line be a -34 or whatever across the board.

I think we'll make the playoffs this coming year, but even I'll admit that we can't match skill for skill yet against a lot of other teams in the league right now. JVR - Bozak - Kessel got crushed last year and we can't have our top line be that big a minus again. So I think our advantage will come from the fact that we've finally got enough legit NHL players that we can run 4 lines on offense and have 6 good defenders every game. We'll have to win by working harder and using our depth by rolling 4 lines... keeping shifts short... and getting production from everyone in the lineup. Ultimately it will take some good performances by our goalies too... but I'm not too concerned about who's "top 6" and "bottom 6" or whatever. By not having, Kessel, Clarkson, Franson, and Trevor Smith in our lineup... we are already dramatically improved over last season because I think they were our worst players when it came to helping or hurting the Leafs chances of winning games.

You were making sense up to the bolded part ...

Lol this guy is a funny poster but he has to be the biggest troll on our board. But i say that respectfully.

Yes he's doing a pretty good job I must say.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Deleted*

 

[indigobuffalo]

Current roster assuming no further FA signings, that the Leafs sign their PTO players, and estimations for those PTO players' contracts (2-yr deals).

Forwards: ($34.275M)

Joffrey Lupul ($5.25M) Nazem Kadri ($4.1M) James van Riemsdyk ($4.25M)

Daniel Winnik ($2.25M) Tyler Bozak ($4.2M) Brad Boyes (est. $2.25M)

Pierre-Alexandre Parenteau ($1.5M) Peter Holland ($0.775M) Leo Komarov ($2.95M)

Curtis Glencross (est. $2.25M) Nick Spaling ($2.2M) Shawn Matthias ($2.3M)

Defencemen: ($19.744M)

Dion Phaneuf ($7M) Morgan Rielly ($1.744M)

Jake Gardiner ($4.05M) Stephane Robidas ($3M)

Roman Polak ($2.75M) Matt Hunwick ($1.2M)

Extra Skaters: ($4.850M)
Devon Setoguchi (est. $1.15M), Michael Grabner ($3.0M), Martin Marincin ($0.7M)

Goalies: ($6.45M)

Jonathan Bernier ($4.15M)
James Reimer ($2.3M)

Buyouts/Salary Retentions: ($3.233M)
Tim Gleason ($1.833M), Phil Kessel ($1.2M), Carl Gunnarsson ($0.2M)

Total Cap Hit: $68.552M
Remaining Cap Space: $2.848M

 

[moon111]

Does anyone else agree, making lines for this season is exceptionally challenging?
Even existing players we're use to are kind of a complete unknown. I haven't a clue
as to how Babcock will use Bozak. Will defenceman be more willing to step up into a play knowing Kessel isn't on the ice, but rather someone who can skate both ways? The competition for jobs has gotten harder. Are players working that much harder in this off-season realising someone on a PTO might still their job? Given more ice-time, better line-mates, how would some respond? Some lines just end up more then the sum of their parts. A Frattin comes in and feeds perfectly off Kadri or some other combination.

What's crazy, the Leafs could seriously cut goals against, make the playoffs, sell off players... and bring up younger players and have more talent

 

[indigobuffalo]

Does anyone else agree, making lines for this season is exceptionally challenging?
Even existing players we're use to are kind of a complete unknown. I haven't a clue
as to how Babcock will use Bozak. Will defenceman be more willing to step up into a play knowing Kessel isn't on the ice, but rather someone who can skate both ways? The competition for jobs has gotten harder. Are players working that much harder in this off-season realising someone on a PTO might still their job? Given more ice-time, better line-mates, how would some respond? Some lines just end up more then the sum of their parts. A Frattin comes in and feeds perfectly off Kadri or some other combination.

What's crazy, the Leafs could seriously cut goals against, make the playoffs, sell off players... and bring up younger players and have more talent

The thing that gets me is that almost every player posted career lows in points. Assuming we get even halfway back to career averages, all the while cutting down on goals against, I think we could be really surprised by this team.

IMO, I think we're in the same position as the Senators a few years ago when they started their "rebuild" (trading Fisher, Kelly, etc.) where the expectations are being set very low, but we could easily surprise and make the playoffs, and still have a very good young crop of talent on its way to make that sustainable.

 

[RLF]

Current roster assuming no further FA signings, that the Leafs sign their PTO players, and estimations for those PTO players' contracts (2-yr deals).

Forwards: ($35.675M)

Joffrey Lupul ($5.25M) Nazem Kadri ($5.5M) James van Riemsdyk ($4.25M)

Daniel Winnik ($2.25M) Tyler Bozak ($4.2M) Brad Boyes (est. $2.25M)

Pierre-Alexandre Parenteau ($1.5M) Peter Holland ($0.775M) Leo Komarov ($2.95M)

Curtis Glencross (est. $2.25M) Nick Spaling ($2.2M) Shawn Matthias ($2.3M)

Defencemen: ($19.744M)

Dion Phaneuf ($7M) Morgan Rielly ($1.744M)

Jake Gardiner ($4.05M) Stephane Robidas ($3M)

Roman Polak ($2.75M) Matt Hunwick ($1.2M)

Extra Skaters: ($3.625M)
Devon Setoguchi (est. $1.15M), Richard Panik ($0.975M), Martin Marincin ($1.5M)

Goalies: ($6.45M)

Jonathan Bernier ($4.15M)
James Reimer ($2.3M)

Buyouts/Salary Retentions: ($3.233M)
Tim Gleason ($1.833M), Phil Kessel ($1.2M), Carl Gunnarsson ($0.2M)

Total Cap Hit: $68.727M
Remaining Cap Space: $2.673M

I remember you claimed Kadri will not make less than Lupul and there was "no debate about it", but IIRC he was signed at $4.1mil not $5.5mil...Man, you must really hate being wrong to go to the extent of cooking the books

 

[indigobuffalo]

I remember you claimed Kadri will not make less than Lupul and there was "no debate about it", but IIRC he was signed at $4.1mil not $5.5mil...Man, you must really hate being wrong to go to the extent of cooking the books

My calculations were correct I just didn't think they'd sign him for one year, which IMO is dumb. His 1-yr is RFA so it was much lower than he will get as a UFA.

If you read my posts his RFA years were correctly estimated in value.

Here's what I assume you're referencing:

Kadri has only one more year of Restricted Free Agency, so if the Leafs want him at under $5M they can only sign him one more year.

Let's pretend that Kadri, as an RFA, can be re-signed at $4.0M.

Now, if they want to risk losing him to UFA, that's fine. But letting an asset like Kadri walk out the door is NOT how you rebuild. That's how you squander assets and stagnate a rebuild.

If they want to sign him longer than one year, then they have to sign him for UFA years, at what he projects to be worth during those UFA years, and his role on the team.

Now that the Leafs have traded Kessel, Bozak will no longer be the 1C, making Kadri the de facto 1C. So his agent will argue that he should be paid as a 1C who puts up 50-60 points and is a strong two-way, playmaking centre.

Looking at comparables, you see names like: Dubinsky $5.85M which starts this year, conveniently.

So $5.85M is 8.19% of the cap max for 2015-16. Let's assume Kadri is valued at 7.5% of the cap max, and let's assume a rise of 3% to the max for the 2016-17 season.

That means that Kadri is "worth" $5.515M as a UFA that season. So if the Leafs sign him to a 4-year deal and you extrapolate those numbers, you end up with an AAV of $5.261 on a 4-year deal.

So I think $5.5M if it's a 7-year deal is a pretty bang on estimate, having not done the math beforehand.

So I had said $4.0M in yr 1, FYI, which was UNDER by $0.1M.

Thanks for coming out though.

 

[RLF]

Bernier wants term, so 4.5 is likely only happening if we do 8-yrs.

Kadri won't be paid less than Lupul. Zero debate.

No, this is what I was referencing to. Wrong on both accounts actually.

My point was even now for todays current roster and cap hits(which Kadri siagned a while ago, you still have Kadri at $5.5).

I was just joking around, you obviously took offence to it. Although I do love it when guys make these grand statements of "zero debate" and up wrong and then claim...I wasn't wrong.

 

[indigobuffalo]

No, this is what I was referencing to. Wrong on both accounts actually.

My point was even now for todays current roster and cap hits(which Kadri siagned a while ago, you still have Kadri at $5.5).

I was just joking around, you obviously took offence to it. Although I do love it when guys make these grand statements of "zero debate" and up wrong and then claim...I wasn't wrong.

There's context to that statement. Kadri's UFA value will not be less than Lupul. Of course his RFA value is!

I never would've imagined the Leafs risking putting Kadri on a 1-year deal. It's insanely stupid, and the first big gaffe IMO of the Shanahan era.

That's beside the point. As it regards what I said, I was clearly talking about Kadri's UFA value. Just look at what I just quoted.

I clearly said Kadri's RFA value is $4.0M.

 

[Ovate]

A one year deal made the most sense. The Leafs weren't going to lock a guy down longterm after he has suspension worthy off-ice issues and was coming off a 39 point season. And Kadri doesn't want to sign a longterm deal coming off a bad year. But the Leafs wanted the ability to lock him down longterm if he could overcome his issues, they needed him to stay RFA so they could have some control.

Also, no way Boyes and Glencross get over $2M. Players that come to camp on PTOs will be lucky to get more than $1M.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Lol this guy is a funny poster but he has to be the biggest troll on our board. But i say that respectfully.

that or he's really a 65 year old mexican.

 

[RLF]

During the off-season, teams get a 10% bonus cushion, but there is no LTIR, so Horton's $5.3M counts towards the cap limit of ($78.54M) which is $71.4 x 1.1

Once the season starts, then Horton goes on LTIR, but the Leafs also lose the 10% bonus.

So, per my previous post, assuming we re-sign Kadri at $5.5M, Bernier at $4.75M, and Marincin at $1.5M, we will have $9.322M in cap space when the season starts.

During the remainder of the off-season, assuming again we sign the RFAs as above, we have $11.162M in cap space.

As of right now, we have $22.512M

Also from July 1st and from the first page of this thread as was the other quote I showed.
You have Kadri signing for $5.5 projected and then when someone else claims he expects a 3 year deal under $5 per, you fire back with the other post I showed. There is no mention of you saying his RFA value being $4M.

You have him signing for $5.5 for this current deal and still have him at $5.5 to this day.

They are your quotes, nobody was talking RFA or UFA value at the time. Your take was clearly that you believed Kadri would get a longer term deal at more $ than Lupul. Go back and read the first page yourself if you think I am taking something out of context. I am not misquoting you or taking anything out of context.
You think Shanny and co made a mistake and that's fine, but that doesn't change that you said it was not debatable.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Current roster assuming no further FA signings, that the Leafs sign their PTO players, and estimations for those PTO players' contracts (2-yr deals).

Forwards: ($34.275M)

Joffrey Lupul ($5.25M) Nazem Kadri ($4.1M) James van Riemsdyk ($4.25M)

Daniel Winnik ($2.25M) Tyler Bozak ($4.2M) Brad Boyes (est. $2.25M)

Pierre-Alexandre Parenteau ($1.5M) Peter Holland ($0.775M) Leo Komarov ($2.95M)

Curtis Glencross (est. $2.25M) Nick Spaling ($2.2M) Shawn Matthias ($2.3M)

Defencemen: ($19.744M)

Dion Phaneuf ($7M) Morgan Rielly ($1.744M)

Jake Gardiner ($4.05M) Stephane Robidas ($3M)

Roman Polak ($2.75M) Matt Hunwick ($1.2M)

Extra Skaters: ($4.850M)
Devon Setoguchi (est. $1.15M), Michael Grabner ($3.0M), Martin Marincin ($0.7M)

Goalies: ($6.45M)

Jonathan Bernier ($4.15M)
James Reimer ($2.3M)

Buyouts/Salary Retentions: ($3.233M)
Tim Gleason ($1.833M), Phil Kessel ($1.2M), Carl Gunnarsson ($0.2M)

Total Cap Hit: $68.552M
Remaining Cap Space: $2.848M

I guess we probably aren't keeping the 3 PTO contracts, now that we obtained Grabner... Unless more activity is coming... I mean, we would already have to expose Panik to waivers just to make happen the above, which has Grabner/Setoguchi in the press box...