Linden "Playoff Performer?" Vey - Part III

[arttk]

If you put 'Schroeder' on the back on Vey's jersey i doubt most people could tell the difference

Schroeder out muscled him lol.

 

[VanJack]

Oh. My. Good. God.

Benning actually believes Vey can be a second line center......

Probably thinks Horvat's a 3rd line center lol.

What really concerns me is that JB apparently scouted him personally in the AHL and fundamentally misjudged his ability to translate to the NHL....praying he hasn't also got it wrong with Pedan, Clendening and Baertschi....we'll be down a lot of draft picks if he has.

 

[Havre]

For me, the biggest thing with Vey as opposed to Schroeder...is that if Vey can manage to get physically stronger, there's still that faint glimmer of "growing room". A stronger Vey is a better Vey, and that isn't completely outside the realm of possibility. He may be a MayRay who is just destined to be knocked off of pucks for the rest of eternity. But he is still only 23/24 years old...conceivably he could still get a bit stronger. Any gains in that regard will help him immensely...and probably also have a collateral effect on his skating explosiveness which is his next biggest weakness.


Whereas with Schroeder...the guy was already jacked. There was no, "pump some iron in the offseason and come back better"...it was all about his intensity and level of engagement/assertiveness on the ice. That's generally a lot more difficult a set of habits to change than simply...getting pumped up.

Vey still has those brief flashes where you can see a player in there somewhere...he just gets completely dummied in physical battles and doesn't have the explosiveness in his skating to play effectively the way he seems to want to play (which is a lot more engaged than Schroeder ever was).

It seems so obvious, but there are many examples of smaller players trying to bulk up without it helping their game.

Zuccarello came into the league being small and weak. He increased his weight significantly earlier in his career trying to adapt to the tougher NHL game. He ended up being slower and therefore less effective. He then lost some weight before last season and played better than ever before. Obviously a big difference between Zuccarello and Vey in that Zuccarello plays a tough game even if he is small.

I don't mind Vey, but I just can't see how he can fit into our team going forward. If you had two "superstar" 1 and 2C and a big heavy checking 4th line. Then maybe you could use Vey as a cheap 3C on a semi-skilled line. Maybe Sedin/Horvat might form that top 1/2C, but we are not looking likely to find that 4th line. And if Horvat takes over as 2C what does Vey offer more than Bonino, Gaunce, McCann, Cassels etc.?

Fair enough taking a gamble on a player. Especially someone the coach knew from before. But now I don't really see any other solution than to trade him. We lost. Now we need to cut our losses. I do fear that we might end up going Sedin/Bonino/Horvat/Vey next year though. Bonino becoming our shut down guy killing his value.

What really concerns me is that JB apparently scouted him personally in the AHL and fundamentally misjudged his ability to translate to the NHL....praying he hasn't also got it wrong with Pedan, Clendening and Baertschi....we'll be down a lot of draft picks if he has.

One player. No-one can get them all right.

 

[biturbo19]

It seems so obvious, but there are many examples of smaller players trying to bulk up without it helping their game.

Zuccarello came into the league being small and weak. He increased his weight significantly earlier in his career trying to adapt to the tougher NHL game. He ended up being slower and therefore less effective. He then lost some weight before last season and played better than ever before. Obviously a big difference between Zuccarello and Vey in that Zuccarello plays a tough game even if he is small.

I don't mind Vey, but I just can't see how he can fit into our team going forward. If you had two "superstar" 1 and 2C and a big heavy checking 4th line. Then maybe you could use Vey as a cheap 3C on a semi-skilled line. Maybe Sedin/Horvat might form that top 1/2C, but we are not looking likely to find that 4th line. And if Horvat takes over as 2C what does Vey offer more than Bonino, Gaunce, McCann, Cassels etc.?

Fair enough taking a gamble on a player. Especially someone the coach knew from before. But now I don't really see any other solution than to trade him. We lost. Now we need to cut our losses. I do fear that we might end up going Sedin/Bonino/Horvat/Vey next year though. Bonino becoming our shut down guy killing his value.

That's really touching on the thing though...

it's not about adding "weight" so much as about adding "strength". The two are not the same.

 

[Havre]

That's really touching on the thing though...

it's not about adding "weight" so much as about adding "strength". The two are not the same.

Sure. But you would assume a soon to be 24 year old athlete to be fairly close to his "strength potential" at his current weight. Or at least as strong as most other players at the same age with the same weight playing in the NHL. See no reason why Vey should have a bigger untapped potential there.

And even if he got stronger he would still have to adapt his style - using his "new" strength.

I just don't see it.

In my opinion, as a C, he would have to be sheltered in some way. He has decent skills. So with the right match ups and a bit more confidence I think he could very well become a decent NHL players. Just not i Vancouver.

 

[iceburg]

Sure. But you would assume a soon to be 24 year old athlete to be fairly close to his "strength potential" at his current weight. Or at least as strong as most other players at the same age with the same weight playing in the NHL. See no reason why Vey should have a bigger untapped potential there.

And even if he got stronger he would still have to adapt his style - using his "new" strength.

I just don't see it.

In my opinion, as a C, he would have to be sheltered in some way. He has decent skills. So with the right match ups and a bit more confidence I think he could very well become a decent NHL players. Just not i Vancouver.

Not really. Training techniques can be transformative so that even a mature athlete can change their strength profile rather than just becoming stronger. I'm hoping that Vey gets some very solid advice this summer and comes back with a much better core strength.

 

[Havre]

Not really. Training techniques can be transformative so that even a mature athlete can change their strength profile rather than just becoming stronger. I'm hoping that Vey gets some very solid advice this summer and comes back with a much better core strength.

Even so. Why should Vey have more untapped potential than any other player?

If he can get stronger - everyone else could as well. So we are back at status quo (more or less - his age works in his favour compared to the average NHL player I guess).

 

[iceburg]

Even so. Why should Vey have more untapped potential than any other player?

If he can get stronger - everyone else could as well. So we are back at status quo (more or less - his age works in his favour compared to the average NHL player I guess).

Sure. But Vey has shown enough offensive creativity and skill at every other level and we see flashes of it at the NHL level. The guy has sick vision. The main thing holding him back is that he is stuck being a perimeter player because he's too weak to fight through checks and too slow to beat players wide. Both of these deficiencies point to core strength.

Ronalds Kenins, for example, has the opposite problem. The guy is strong as an ox but his offensive game is one dimensional.

You notice that Hansen doesn't fall down as much anymore....he developed better core strength when he was 25/26.

Thankfully Bo has both the strength and the skill

Edit: to better answer your question...with the right training, the right strength can be obtained. Skill is inherited. It must be developed but the ceiling is based on god given ability.

 

[Havre]

Sure. But Vey has shown enough offensive creativity and skill at every other level and we see flashes of it at the NHL level. The guy has sick vision. The main thing holding him back is that he is stuck being a perimeter player because he's too weak to fight through checks and too slow to beat players wide. Both of these deficiencies point to core strength.

Ronalds Kenins, for example, has the opposite problem. The guy is strong as an ox but his offensive game is one dimensional.

You notice that Hansen doesn't fall down as much anymore....he developed better core strength when he was 25/26.

Thankfully Bo has both the strength and the skill

Agree. Which is why I think he will have a decent NHL career. Just don't see how he fits in with our team.

Horvat took his role. Fair enough.

 

[VanJack]

If Vey could somehow morph into a better defensive centre, there might be a place for him on this team....but he's just so damn weak on the puck and a catastrophe in the face-off dot...with Sedin and Horvat 1-2 and Bonino now No. 3, there's just no place for him....also, the flock of younger wingers coming up make him redundant on the wing....wish in retrospect we still had that second-rounder....no way you could trade him for one now.

 

[No Face No Case]

Bog-nino is a 4th line C on a Cup challenging team.
Guy is so slow its bordering on absurdity.
Id almost rather have Richie back, at least he plays with a wee bit of jam.

I hope they go get someone ... even.....Sedin/Horvat/Kadri/Bonino would be better than bringing back Bognino as a 3rd C and Mini Vey.

They gotta go get a Centerman , nothing in the system.

Its too bad Ryan Johansen couldn't come home

 

[DennisReynolds]

Bog-nino is a 4th line C on a Cup challenging team.
Guy is so slow its bordering on absurdity.
Id almost rather have Richie back, at least he plays with a wee bit of jam.

I hope they go get someone ... even.....Sedin/Horvat/Kadri/Bonino would be better than bringing back Bognino as a 3rd C and Mini Vey.

They gotta go get a Centerman , nothing in the system.

Its too bad Ryan Johansen couldn't come home

4th liners do not get close to 40 ES points.

 

[Tinhorn1]

Seems as though Vey is being routinely being dismissed on these boards thanks to his lackluster end to the year, but I'm just wondering if there is anyone who thinks that dismissal might be overly hasty. After all, it was just his rookie season, and there were some bright spots here and there. Might he still become a useful part of the team going forward? Any hope at all, from anyone?

Just curious.

 

[alternate]

I've still got hope for Vey. Can't question his offensive resume. He's a high IQ guy with decent tools and quick hands. He was overmatched at times by bigger opponents, and that will always be the case to a degree. But there's no logical reason to think he can't continue to get stronger...he's a 23 year old professional athlete, pretty much a given he'll get stronger over the next few years.

Question is, how much stronger will he get, and how much stronger does he need to? Part of it is technique gained through experience. He's never going to muscle Backes or Getzlaf off the puck, so he has to figure out other ways to win board battles. I feel he reads the play quite well offensively, and made strides defensively over the season. Still feel by the time he's 27 he can be a solid 2nd line centre that puts up 40 points and is respectable defensively.

Whether that'll be here, who knows.

 

[Edo]

I've still got hope for Vey. Can't question his offensive resume. He's a high IQ guy with decent tools and quick hands. He was overmatched at times by bigger opponents, and that will always be the case to a degree. But there's no logical reason to think he can't continue to get stronger...he's a 23 year old professional athlete, pretty much a given he'll get stronger over the next few years.

Question is, how much stronger will he get, and how much stronger does he need to? Part of it is technique gained through experience. He's never going to muscle Backes or Getzlaf off the puck, so he has to figure out other ways to win board battles. I feel he reads the play quite well offensively, and made strides defensively over the season. Still feel by the time he's 27 he can be a solid 2nd line centre that puts up 40 points and is respectable defensively.

Whether that'll be here, who knows.

All that hockey IQ and he still doesn't know how to make a decent line change. Torts would've reamed him the hell out. Willie gave him PP time.

 

[biturbo19]

I've still got hope for Vey. Can't question his offensive resume. He's a high IQ guy with decent tools and quick hands. He was overmatched at times by bigger opponents, and that will always be the case to a degree. But there's no logical reason to think he can't continue to get stronger...he's a 23 year old professional athlete, pretty much a given he'll get stronger over the next few years.

Question is, how much stronger will he get, and how much stronger does he need to? Part of it is technique gained through experience. He's never going to muscle Backes or Getzlaf off the puck, so he has to figure out other ways to win board battles. I feel he reads the play quite well offensively, and made strides defensively over the season. Still feel by the time he's 27 he can be a solid 2nd line centre that puts up 40 points and is respectable defensively.

Whether that'll be here, who knows.

I think he's being "dismissed" and "written off" because based on what he showed last season, he's just not strong enough to be a guy you pencil in as an everyday player, on an ideal roster.

Though like you're saying...even if he can come back marginally stronger, that's going to make him a more effective player. If he can pair that with his experience as an NHL rookie last season, in finding ways to be more effective at that level while having below average strength...the offensive instincts are still there, there's hope for him.

As it stands, he's a very reasonable utility "spare forward" type who can slot in wherever on what should be a cheap contract. Not what you hope for out of a 2nd round pick, but i don't think the book is completely closed on him just yet either.

Hopefully we see improvement this summer.

 

[Bad News Benning]

Seems as though Vey is being routinely being dismissed on these boards thanks to his lackluster end to the year, but I'm just wondering if there is anyone who thinks that dismissal might be overly hasty. After all, it was just his rookie season, and there were some bright spots here and there. Might he still become a useful part of the team going forward? Any hope at all, from anyone?

Just curious.

The Problem with Vey Isn't that he is small....it's the fact he plays small. Always has that aww shucks look on his face and doesn't show enough determination. When I would pay close attention to him I noticed he would always skate away from scrums and stay out of the high traffic areas. Most of the guys who succeed at his size have that intensity/edge to them that allows them to win puck battles against far bigger players. If he the feisty/competitive nature of guys like Merkley or Konecky it would probably allow his offensive game to transfer at this level in a 2nd or 3rd line center capacity.

 

[iceburg]

Seems as though Vey is being routinely being dismissed on these boards thanks to his lackluster end to the year, but I'm just wondering if there is anyone who thinks that dismissal might be overly hasty. After all, it was just his rookie season, and there were some bright spots here and there. Might he still become a useful part of the team going forward? Any hope at all, from anyone?

Just curious.

The vast majority of posters who have written Vey off are in one or both of the "Benning can't do anything right" and "Willie has his own guys" camps. Short of Vey scoring 15-20 goals and taking the 2nd line centre spot, they weren't going to be satisfied.
Truth is Vey had an ok rookie season. He struggled at times but he showed his skill at times. He has great vision but he needs to get stronger in order to compete consistently at this level.
I'm in the camp that believes Vey will become a 15-20 g/40pt guy within a couple of years. It's anything but a sure thing but, with the right development strategy, he has a chance to have a nice NHL career.

 

[IComeInPeace]

I like Benning, but am very skeptical about Vey.

He seems like a classic tweener type.

I would agree his rookie season may be a little underrated around here.

However, if you look at what he brings (lack of size and strength, not a great skater, weak in the face off circle, not great defensively) even if he were to become a 50 point guy, I don't think he's a guy that can play 2nd line center for a legit contender without hurting his team more than he helps.

However, sometimes there can be a tendency for people to pigeonhole players.
Young players can sometimes (albeit rarely) take their game to the next level (when most would figure they didn't have a 'next level') after getting their feet wet in their rookie season.

I didn't like what I saw of Vey this season; however, I'm keeping myself open to the possibility that the experience he gained in his rookie season, along with an additional summer to prepare, could lead to a significantly better player.

 

[Diamonddog01]

While I'm far from a huge Vey supporter, I've always felt we need to wait another year to assess him as a player. In every single league he's played in he's started off with mediocre numbers and had terrific sophomore seasons. He presumably knows what he needs to work on this summer.

I think a wait and see approach is best. If he's the same 1/3 or 1/2 way into next season then this wasn't a great move. Hoping he surprises.

 

[iceburg]

People seem to forget that he led his american league team in scoring as a 21 year old and as a 22 year old (in ppg because he was only on the roster for 43 games). He was third in scoring in his AHL rookie season as a 20 year old. Based on AHL rookie seasons he outperformed Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Santorelli and numerous other regular NHLers. His AHL trajectory was very impressive. The kid has a tonne of skill.

Translating that skill into the NHL will be a challenge until/unless he gets stronger. I think he'll do it.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

While I'm far from a huge Vey supporter, I've always felt we need to wait another year to assess him as a player. In every single league he's played in he's started off with mediocre numbers and had terrific sophomore seasons. He presumably knows what he needs to work on this summer.

I think a wait and see approach is best. If he's the same 1/3 or 1/2 way into next season then this wasn't a great move. Hoping he surprises.

I pretty much agree with you here

The NHL season is so encompassing and strenuous, players don't have the opportunity to fully evaluate their needs and work on their weaknesses, instead the follow a regiment of an NHL team, eat sleep and work by their rules and schedule. Once the season ends players are able to work towards making them a better player by focusing on the skills, speed and strength. Vey I feel has that potential, it has been seen many times. Patience is not our virtue, lets not forget this guy just played his first full season.

Fingers crossed he turns into a Derek Roy

 

[arsmaster*]

The vast majority of posters who have written Vey off are in one or both of the "Benning can't do anything right" and "Willie has his own guys" camps. Short of Vey scoring 15-20 goals and taking the 2nd line centre spot, they weren't going to be satisfied.
Truth is Vey had an ok rookie season. He struggled at times but he showed his skill at times. He has great vision but he needs to get stronger in order to compete consistently at this level.
I'm in the camp that believes Vey will become a 15-20 g/40pt guy within a couple of years. It's anything but a sure thing but, with the right development strategy, he has a chance to have a nice NHL career.

Have you got a woe is Jim Benning post for every thread?

My question to the people who feel Vey has 2C upside, what kind of team do you think plays Vey at 2C?

IMO, it's not one that has a chance to win the Cup. I'm sure he can reach 40 points, he wasn't far off this season, but he'd need spoonfed PP time and optimal linemates, but a team with him at 2C is likely a lottery team.

edit* I don't see how stating the kid didn't enter the WHL at 16 guns blazing makes any real sense, as some sort of pattern. It's VERY common for nearly all 16 year old junior players to play down the lineup and have slow transitions. I don't get why this is used as some sort of platform that says his next season is going to be THAT much better than his last. Entering the WHL at 16 is a heck of a lot different than getting your first NHL season as a 4th year pro. It's like apples and pretzels.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Have you got a woe is Jim Benning post for every thread?

My question to the people who feel Vey has 2C upside, what kind of team do you think plays Vey at 2C?

IMO, it's not one that has a chance to win the Cup. I'm sure he can reach 40 points, he wasn't far off this season, but he'd need spoonfed PP time and optimal linemates, but a team with him at 2C is likely a lottery team.

edit* I don't see how stating the kid didn't enter the WHL at 16 guns blazing makes any real sense, as some sort of pattern. It's VERY common for nearly all 16 year old junior players to play down the lineup and have slow transitions. I don't get why this is used as some sort of platform that says his next season is going to be THAT much better than his last. Entering the WHL at 16 is a heck of a lot different than getting your first NHL season as a 4th year pro. It's like apples and pretzels.

I think that a pattern starts to emerge when you see roughly the same PPG in his first year in the WHL, AHL and NHL. Whether the 2nd year pattern holds true remains to be seen.

 

[Zaddy91]

Vey has real potential.

The only thing that's irritating is a bias coach