Rumor: Lightning calling teams about Coburn and Koekkoek

BalticDevil

Registered User
Mar 27, 2018
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Wismar, Germany
I think the devils have to be on this because Santini is inconsistent so I'm not sure about him and Koekkoek or Coburn would be a nice fit
I can see the Devils being interested, but it's not because of Santini. RD is fine with Vatanen, Severson and Santini/Lovejoy. Koekkoek is a lefty anyway. LD is NJs big weakness and if they see Koekkoek as an improvement over Mueller/Greene I can see some interest. They'd need to get rid of one of their current defensemen though, unless they plan on carrying 8 D.
 

FameFlame069

Registered User
Oct 2, 2017
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This. Aside from a pick there are only a handful of things that might make sense for us in exchange for Koekkoek:

- A defensive prospect with solid NHL potential that we can use to restock the farm. The problem is there are very few scenarios in which a team would offer up such a prospect for the waiver-eligible Koekkoek where the prospect in question wouldn’t be a clear downgrade from Slater. One possibility would be a team that’s loaded at RD and in need of a LD; another would be a team that needs an NHL LD now and can’t wait for their prospect to develop. But barring one of those scenarios it’s probable that whatever prospect we might be offered would be less likely to become an effective NHL player than the guy we already have, so in that case we might as well just hold onto him.
- A bottom pairing LD on an expiring deal who would be a clear step up from either Koekkoek or Coburn; the idea is that we get better this season and the other team gets a younger player with more control and future potential.
- A veteran bottom pairing LD on a cheap deal with one more year after this one. The idea here is to get someone who can carry the bottom pairing for a year after Girardi and Coburn both walk at the end of this season. Hedman-Cernak and McDonagh-Stralman should be a fine top four in 2019 but we’ll need somebody to play opposite Foote on the bottom pairing; it may be difficult to find a suitable UFA willing to take a one-year deal so trading for a player whose contract expires in 2020 might be the best way for us to bridge the gap. The motivation for our trade partner would be the same as in the previous scenario; the primary difference would be the extra year of control and the requirement for a cheaper cap hit as we’ll be entering our tight cap years at that point.
- Finally if we were to trade Koekkoek for a forward, whether an NHL player or a prospect with NHL potential, the main things we’d be looking for are size (along with the willingness to use it) and defensive ability. We’re loaded with forwards but we’re short on size and physicality. I also say defensive ability because nobody is going to offer up a prospect with top six potential for Koekkoek so we’d need somebody well suited for bottom six duty (in other words not one of those one-dimensional offensive tweeners who isn’t good enough for a scoring line at the NHL level but whose game doesn’t fit a defensive or energy line.)

So maybe there’s a hockey trade that makes sense for both sides, but barring that we’ll probably end up taking the best pick we can get for him or keeping him and trading Coburn instead.

Where's Sergy playing? in Calgary? :)
 

AndreRoy

Registered User
Jan 3, 2018
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Where's Sergy playing? in Calgary? :)

On the right side of the second pairing. He’s left-handed but prefers and excels at the right side. Most of us expect a top four of Hedman-Stralman and McDonagh-Sergachev this season and the same pairings with Cernak in place of Stralman the following season.
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
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Pittsburgh 3rd + Paul or Harpur (if waived and clears)? No need for both, we just need an AHL body who doesn't have vet status.

Is Koekkoek really worth a 3rd round pick?

I am not saying this in a combative way. To me, he seems to be one step above pre-season waiver fodder.
 
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HoseEmDown

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Mar 25, 2012
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Is Koekkoek really worth a 3rd round pick?

I am not saying this in a combative way. To me, he seems to be one step above pre-season waiver fodder.

I believe so, there's been plenty of players in his situation going for a pick in that range. Plus it's the Pitt one which will be late. He's flashed potential that some teams might think they can get the most out of. He's also a guarantee waiver claim so if you really want him and aren't high on the list you probably won't get him.
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
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I believe so, there's been plenty of players in his situation going for a pick in that range. Plus it's the Pitt one which will be late. He's flashed potential that some teams might think they can get the most out of. He's also a guarantee waiver claim so if you really want him and aren't high on the list you probably won't get him.

Fair enough, thanks for the explanation.
 

AndreRoy

Registered User
Jan 3, 2018
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Is Koekkoek really worth a 3rd round pick?

I am not saying this in a combative way. To me, he seems to be one step above pre-season waiver fodder.

Yeah, I still think he has some good potential - we’ve just done a horrible job with his development and at this point I’m not sure he’ll ever get a real chance in Tampa. I’m gonna be pissed if he goes somewhere else, gets his confidence back, and ends up on somebody’s second pairing as a good puck-moving defenseman. On the other hand it’s possible he never reaches that potential at this point, and if so I’ll blame the Lightning far more than him. In short he’s a risk, but one with a potentially high reward.
 

FameFlame069

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Oct 2, 2017
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On the right side of the second pairing. He’s left-handed but prefers and excels at the right side. Most of us expect a top four of Hedman-Stralman and McDonagh-Sergachev this season and the same pairings with Cernak in place of Stralman the following season.

but from the post i replied to, you forgot about Sergy, im surprised you mentioned Foote at the end but skipped Serg
 

AndreRoy

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Jan 3, 2018
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but from the post i replied to, you forgot about Sergy, im surprised you mentioned Foote at the end but skipped Serg

No, I didn’t forget about Serg. I was talking about our bottom pairing both this season and the next; Serg will most likely not be on our bottom pairing either this season or the next.

edit: I see the source of the confusion - I typed Stralman where I meant Sergachev on the second pairing. Been a long week haha. Stralman will be gone and our second pairing will be McDonagh-Sergachev.
 
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BigHabs

#11
Aug 3, 2009
6,774
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Scherbak
Benn

For

Koekoek
5th round pick

Final years for both Scherbak and Koekoek. Both RFAs. Could fill a need for both sides. Montreal needs a mobile left dman. Tampa can use Scherbak’s size and offensive ability for the bottom 6. He could be mentored through Kucherov as well.

Benn gives a security blanket veteran guy if anything happens on the left side as McDonagh or Sergachev can move up and have Benn like Coburn who can play both sides.

The 5th is to equal value off and the Habs seem to like to work with their 5th round picks at the draft.
 

McSuper

5-14-6-1
Jun 16, 2012
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Halifax
We can't take a roster player. We're trying to create a roster space for cernak. Forward spots full too.

I understand that . my thoughts was Kassian with zero retention on Coburn . Kassian makes 2 million a year you can waive him and save almost 1 million in cap space which may be easier then retaining 50% .
 

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
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I understand that . my thoughts was Kassian with zero retention on Coburn . Kassian makes 2 million a year you can waive him and save almost 1 million in cap space which may be easier then retaining 50% .

Coburn's not a cap dump though. We think we can get some value for him.
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
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I believe so, there's been plenty of players in his situation going for a pick in that range. Plus it's the Pitt one which will be late. He's flashed potential that some teams might think they can get the most out of. He's also a guarantee waiver claim so if you really want him and aren't high on the list you probably won't get him.
Last season Derrick Pouliot, a similar defenseman picked eighth overall in the 2012 draft was traded for a fourth round pick and Andrey Pedan, an AHL veteran defenseman. This is what I'd value Koekkoek at.

If the Oilers do end up acquiring him, I would guess he returns the Oilers 2019 4th and Ryan Stanton, a veteran AHL LHD. Syracuse could probably use the depth after losing Mat Bodie.
 

HoseEmDown

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Mar 25, 2012
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Last season Derrick Pouliot, a similar defenseman picked eighth overall in the 2012 draft was traded for a fourth round pick and Andrey Pedan, an AHL veteran defenseman. This is what I'd value Koekkoek at.

If the Oilers do end up acquiring him, I would guess he returns the Oilers 2019 4th and Ryan Stanton, a veteran AHL LHD. Syracuse could probably use the depth after losing Mat Bodie.

We could use the depth but it needs to be someone who doesn't have vet status like Stanton does. Also Pedan wasn't an AHL vet like Stanton, he was drafted 1 year before Pouliot and was just 6 months younger so Pittsburgh might of thought he could be useful and had some potential to them not just a contract throw in. I would target Jones if dealing with Edmonton, we could use another young AHL LD.
 

Mikeaveli

Registered User
Sep 25, 2013
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Edmonton, AB
I understand that . my thoughts was Kassian with zero retention on Coburn . Kassian makes 2 million a year you can waive him and save almost 1 million in cap space which may be easier then retaining 50% .
Kassian has two years left and is useless to us. I would rather just take the highest pick possible with retention.
 

MaxDummy

Yeah
Jul 3, 2011
6,758
6,952
Laval
Scherbak
Benn

For

Koekoek
5th round pick

Final years for both Scherbak and Koekoek. Both RFAs. Could fill a need for both sides. Montreal needs a mobile left dman. Tampa can use Scherbak’s size and offensive ability for the bottom 6. He could be mentored through Kucherov as well.

Benn gives a security blanket veteran guy if anything happens on the left side as McDonagh or Sergachev can move up and have Benn like Coburn who can play both sides.

The 5th is to equal value off and the Habs seem to like to work with their 5th round picks at the draft.
Tampa needs to clear a roster spot and your trade adds one... what the hell?
 
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DownGoesMcDavid

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Apr 17, 2017
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Would think Vancouver would put a claim in for SK immidiately and put Biega or Pouliot on waivers
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
38,660
21,871
Canada
We could use the depth but it needs to be someone who doesn't have vet status like Stanton does. Also Pedan wasn't an AHL vet like Stanton, he was drafted 1 year before Pouliot and was just 6 months younger so Pittsburgh might of thought he could be useful and had some potential to them not just a contract throw in. I would target Jones if dealing with Edmonton, we could use another young AHL LD.
Jones is significantly more valuable than Koekkoek on his own. Why would the Oilers trade one of their top defensive prospects for one that requires waivers? Especially after Caleb Jones just had his strongest camp as an Oiler and is probably their first call up.

As for the AHL veteran rule, it refers to the number of veteran players you can dress in a game. So I don't think my valuation is completely unrealistic.
 

HoseEmDown

Registered User
Mar 25, 2012
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Jones is significantly more valuable than Koekkoek on his own. Why would the Oilers trade one of their top defensive prospects for one that requires waivers? Especially after Caleb Jones just had his strongest camp as an Oiler and is probably their first call up.

As for the AHL veteran rule, it refers to the number of veteran players you can dress in a game. So I don't think my valuation is completely unrealistic.

How is Jones more valuable than Koekkoek? There's no guarantee he takes the next step to become an NHL regular. I'm not saying Koekkoek is more valuable I would consider it pretty even trade. You get the guy who's ready now and has shown he can play in the league for one who you hope gets to that level. If you're trading for Koekkoek then waivers doesn't matter as you plan on him playing for your main club.

Yes but Syracuse has its veteran spots filled currently so unless there's injuries then Stanton wouldn't be playing right away.
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
38,660
21,871
Canada
How is Jones more valuable than Koekkoek? There's no guarantee he takes the next step to become an NHL regular. I'm not saying Koekkoek is more valuable I would consider it pretty even trade. You get the guy who's ready now and has shown he can play in the league for one who you hope gets to that level. If you're trading for Koekkoek then waivers doesn't matter as you plan on him playing for your main club.

Yes but Syracuse has its veteran spots filled currently so unless there's injuries then Stanton wouldn't be playing right away.
Caleb Jones has two years of development left before he requires waivers. He is also a very highly regarded offensive defenseman in their system and currently their most valuable on the left side. Slater Koekkoek is at the sink or swim stage of his development. If he fails to secure a spot in their line up immediately, he can be had for free by any team who wants him. Players that require waivers hold minimal value unless they're proven NHLers. He's at a point where his draft pedigree means practically nothing.
 

Kobe Armstrong

Registered User
Jul 26, 2011
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I’d do it but Scherbak would have to battle for ice time here

He's probably the 13th forward in Montreal to start the year, but he would mesh a lot better with Tampa's forwards. No guarantees that either Koekkoek or Scherbak become anything more than replacement players but I think it's the basis of a fair deal, and one that gives both players a fair shot at success
 
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