Speculation: Lias Andersson asks for a trade - Part II

[CasusBelli]

It's not so much about trading as I'm not sure any GM is going to touch him after this.

Not just in the NHL, in professional sports as a whole, franchises are having a zero tolerance policy for using the third bully [social media] as leverage in trades and other negotiations.

It’s like he forgot that hockey is a career — a profession — in his case. This isn’t EHM or FHM or whatever. Guy needs to, if you will, assemble his feces.

 

[egelband]

Immediate...?

Lias played in NY and Hartford his rookie season. He did so last year too. He did again, this season.

We’re not talking about someone like Kravtsov who bounced out of here the first opportunity he got.

You said he had no future with the team. I assumed you meant immediate future since you noted the current centers.
I wasn’t talking about the past or his mindset. he may have been ‘wronged’ or at least he seems to feel that way. That’s fine.
My point is he’s not helping himself behaving this way regardless of whether he has a future or not. And he’s now not getting paid either because he’s breaching his contract. (Assuming that is the context and consequence of the suspension).

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Holiday freeze ends tomorrow, right?

 

[RangersFan1994]

Holiday freeze ends tomorrow, right?

midnight saturday

I bet Andersson gets moved before January ends. or maybe they have a trade in place. hopefully something will happen to get this bad attitude away from NYR

 

[JimmyG89]

I think if you're expecting a 2nd+ for him your expectations are way too high.

Don't think they'll be moving him for a pick either way. This is a prospect swap in the making. Someone compiled a list of prospects that seem to be at an impasse with their current franchises. Would not be surprised if it is someone on that list.

While we don't own our 2nd in this draft (Fox trade), we will likely get one if they move someone like Strome or Fast.

I'd expect a team that has lacked picks over the last few seasons to be interested, especially if they are not in the contending aspect they were a few years ago.

I could see Columbus being one of those teams. They've moved so many picks recently that a young player that could be on their roster in the next season probably peaks their interest. San Jose is another team that has moved out picks/prospects and could use a guy in Andersson's age range. In fact, all 3 California teams probably will be interested.

 

[JHS]

One other thing I don’t think Lias considered is the Rangers actually have something invested in him whereas whatever team he does go to will have 0 invested. To me, what that means is his path the the NHL will be even harder because he will start out lower and will never get the benefit of the doubt after this stunt.

 

[haveandare]

By the time he was in Hartford he was done as a Ranger imo. Evaluating his play during his last stint down there isn’t an accurate example of the type of player Lias is or can be. You can tell his confidence was completely shot.

Sure, but that's not some mystery person's fault – it's his. He's 21 years old, has 60 something total NHL games to his name with like 10 points, and his best AHL production is about .5 points per game. Given all of that, having to go to Hartford isn't some slap in the face, it's totally reasonable.

Chytil scored at a better clip than him in both the AHL and NHL at every juncture so far, and Chytil started the season in the AHL. Shestyorkin is arguably one of the best goalies of his age on the planet and he absolutely dominated a men's league for years before coming to NA, and he got sent to Hartford. It's not like Lias got sent to Maine, he was one step below the big show as a young player who hadn't really forced the issue at any point yet. I agree that it might have been wise to give him some chances to play up even if he didn't earn them just to see what he'd do with it when the stakes weren't very high, but it's really not unusual for a team to not do that with a young player.

What type of player Lias is or can be depends on whether or not he ends up "done" with something just by facing some predictable and reasonable adversity. He's a guy without dazzling skill trying to make it in the NHL. There's going to be a ton of adversity, and tons of things that can potentially destroy his confidence based on what seemed to do it this time.

This is also what dings his value the most IMO. Not only is he publicly demanding a trade, and not only did he just leave the organization, but he seems to think he's above the AHL when there's really nothing concrete to support that. Unless some team is sure he's already an NHL player, and I'm not sure why they would be (I say that as someone who's been generally a fan of his since the draft), they're not going to want to part with anything of any value to take a flier on him.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

If we can’t get something worthwhile for him he can go play in Sweden for a few years. Knowing what we know now I wish we had just let him brew in the SHL for another year or two.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Don't think they'll be moving him for a pick either way. This is a prospect swap in the making. Someone compiled a list of prospects that seem to be at an impasse with their current franchises. Would not be surprised if it is someone on that list.

While we don't own our 2nd in this draft (Fox trade), we will likely get one if they move someone like Strome or Fast.

I'd expect a team that has lacked picks over the last few seasons to be interested, especially if they are not in the contending aspect they were a few years ago.

I could see Columbus being one of those teams. They've moved so many picks recently that a young player that could be on their roster in the next season probably peaks their interest. San Jose is another team that has moved out picks/prospects and could use a guy in Andersson's age range. In fact, all 3 California teams probably will be interested.

4 potential targets for me would be:

Goldobin
Kostin
Tolvanen
Rubtsov

And I think a 1-for-1 trade is definitely possible with these 4

 

[SA16]

Yeah it's pretty binary, either
my expectations are too high,
or yours are too low

Lather, rinse, repeat

I mean a huge contingent of people don’t even want to give up a 2nd or 3rd for Puljujarvi who was a better prospect at the time, basically they same age, and has been better since being drafted. It’s only because Lias is a Ranger that people value him higher. You’d want to trade a pick like that for him if you had no attachment to him if he was drafted by someone else and put up the same results post draft?

 

[bigdog16]

4 potential targets for me would be:

Goldobin
Kostin
Tolvanen
Rubtsov

And I think a 1-for-1 trade is definitely possible with these 4

Id be interested in the first 2. Tolvanen is a one trick pony whose trick doesnt seem to work well in NA. Rubtsov hasnt done anything to entice me, and he has injury trouble

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Id be interested in the first 2. Tolvanen is a one trick pony whose trick doesnt seem to work well in NA. Rubtsov hasnt done anything to entice me, and he has injury trouble

Well, I ranked them in order of who I'd want

 

[egelband]

If we can’t get something worthwhile for him he can go play in Sweden for a few years. Knowing what we know now I wish we had just let him brew in the SHL for another year or two.

Tell that to Lias He thinks he should have been in the Top Six by now.

 

[Kupo]

You said he had no future with the team. I assumed you meant immediate future since you noted the current centers.
I wasn’t talking about the past or his mindset. he may have been ‘wronged’ or at least he seems to feel that way. That’s fine.
My point is he’s not helping himself behaving this way regardless of whether he has a future or not. And he’s now not getting paid either because he’s breaching his contract. (Assuming that is the context and consequence of the suspension).

Your last paragraph says a whole lot about how frustrated he must be. Breaching his contract and possibly putting a dent in his reputation.

For a player that has always had a reputation of being a leader with a great character, that’s a drastic statement. Now, if he made this decision after a year or two here then I’d be inclined to agree with you more.

But after watching what transpired in camp and during his time in the NHL this season, I completely understand his decision.

There was no future for Lias here in NY with Quinn behind the bench. Not now, nor tomorrow.

If Howden went down, the kid still wouldn’t have sniffed a shift in that top-9. Quinn had a plethora of opportunities to give him a look and didn’t. There’s obviously something there between them.

 

[Kupo]

Sure, but that's not some mystery person's fault – it's his. He's 21 years old, has 60 something total NHL games to his name with like 10 points, and his best AHL production is about .5 points per game. Given all of that, having to go to Hartford isn't some slap in the face, it's totally reasonable.

Chytil scored at a better clip than him in both the AHL and NHL at every juncture so far, and Chytil started the season in the AHL. Shestyorkin is arguably one of the best goalies of his age on the planet and he absolutely dominated a men's league for years before coming to NA, and he got sent to Hartford. It's not like Lias got sent to Maine, he was one step below the big show as a young player who hadn't really forced the issue at any point yet. I agree that it might have been wise to give him some chances to play up even if he didn't earn them just to see what he'd do with it when the stakes weren't very high, but it's really not unusual for a team to not do that with a young player.

Sorry bud but it is unusual to bury a kid on a 4th line and play him 7 minutes a night between a dmen and another winger who’s a black hole offensively. Especially when that kid clearly outplayed the other kid centering the 3rd line and struggled to make plays night after night in all 3 zones.

I’ll say it again — if Lias got a few looks there and didn’t impress, then I wouldn’t be as critical here. He was never put in a position to succeed after putting in a great deal of effort this offseason and during training camp.

This isn’t about Chytil or Shesty. Those are very different situations than LA’s. I’m not even a huge Andersson fan like some of you guys might think because I’ve been adamant on defending him.

I’m just appalled by what happened, versus what could have possibly happened with Andersson if Quinn moved him up for a few games.

The fact that Quinn stated moving LA up could have sparked him and didn’t is a real dick move on his part. You can’t let your ego get in the way of a kids development.

 

[haveandare]

Sorry bud but it is unusual to bury a kid on a 4th line and play him 7 minutes a night between a dmen and another winger who’s a black hole offensively. Especially when that kid clearly outplayed the other kid centering the 3rd line and struggled to make plays night after night in all 3 zones.

I’ll say it again — if Lias got a few looks there and didn’t impress, then I wouldn’t be as critical here. He was never put in a position to succeed after putting in a great deal of effort this offseason and during training camp.

This isn’t about Chytil or Shesty. Those are very different situations than LA’s. I’m not even a huge Andersson fan like some of you guys might think because I’ve been adamant on defending him.

I’m just appalled by what happened, versus what could have possibly happened with Andersson if Quinn moved him up for a few games.

The fact that Quinn stated moving LA up could have sparked him and didn’t is a real dick move on his part. You can’t let your ego get in the way of a kids development.

I don’t disagree that his NHL treatment wasn’t very fair. My point is he’s not at all above the AHL by literally any measure. The fact that being sent down broke him so much is beyond disappointing and a big problem for him. Chytil and Shesty are different from Lias in many way, but in the case of being sent down they had even less reason to be and they both took it a hell of a lot better.

 

[Kupo]

I don’t disagree that his NHL treatment wasn’t very fair. My point is he’s not at all above the AHL by literally any measure. The fact that being sent down broke him so much is beyond disappointing and a big problem for him. Chytil and Shesty are different from Lias in many way, but in the case of being sent down they had even less reason to be and they both took it a hell of a lot better.

I completely understand what you’re trying to say here, but Chytil didn’t have a great camp. He was actually bad. I recall the GDT’s where there was a great deal of concern with him.

And Shesty didn’t outplay Georgiev. We all kind of knew he’d have to stand on his head to make the roster anyway with HL and Geo here.

Lias on the other hand did outplay Howden for that 3rd line spot. When he started the year on the 4th line, I feel that was the beginning of the end with him. I wish he would have played better. He didn’t stand out at all on that 4th line. But, I understand why. Crappy linemates. No ice time. And no confidence.

 

[SA16]

Sorry bud but it is unusual to bury a kid on a 4th line and play him 7 minutes a night between a dmen and another winger who’s a black hole offensively. Especially when that kid clearly outplayed the other kid centering the 3rd line and struggled to make plays night after night in all 3 zones.

I’ll say it again — if Lias got a few looks there and didn’t impress, then I wouldn’t be as critical here. He was never put in a position to succeed after putting in a great deal of effort this offseason and during training camp.

This isn’t about Chytil or Shesty. Those are very different situations than LA’s. I’m not even a huge Andersson fan like some of you guys might think because I’ve been adamant on defending him.

I’m just appalled by what happened, versus what could have possibly happened with Andersson if Quinn moved him up for a few games.

The fact that Quinn stated moving LA up could have sparked him and didn’t is a real dick move on his part. You can’t let your ego get in the way of a kids development.

He is hardly the only young player to have that role. WPG played a bunch of their prospects in 4th line roles - Mason Appleton, Jack Roslovic, and Brendan Lemieux. Similar for Adam Gaudette, Henrik Borgstrom, and Michael Rasmussen as well.

 

[nyr2k2]

I mean a huge contingent of people don’t even want to give up a 2nd or 3rd for Puljujarvi who was a better prospect at the time, basically they same age, and has been better since being drafted. It’s only because Lias is a Ranger that people value him higher. You’d want to trade a pick like that for him if you had no attachment to him if he was drafted by someone else and put up the same results post draft?

When I saw Andersson's usage after the first ten or so games, I said he should be traded. I remember some people being surprised and saying I was overreacting because to that point I had been generally bullish on the guy. But I could see the writing on the wall.

Still, at that point, I was hoping he could get more than just Puljujarvi. I rationalized it as Puljujarvi has demonstrated he's not going to work out AND he's left the continent. But now, with Lias mailing it in and then peacing out as he did, I can't imagine his value being more than Puljujarvi. So while I don't like Puljujarvi that much, I would definitely do that deal now (although Edmonton apparently won't).

 

[Mikos87]

4 potential targets for me would be:

Goldobin
Kostin
Tolvanen
Rubtsov

And I think a 1-for-1 trade is definitely possible with these 4

I would add a couple of other possibilities for a 1 for 1 deal:

Tage Thompson
Ho-Sang
Gauthier
Bellows
Dahlen
Gambrell
Senshyn
Bracco
Forsbacka-Karlsson

All y0ung players in their org that are stuck behind depth or have been surpassed.

I bolded the ones that I would prefer. Kostin is still very young for a third year AHL pro. If they are going to get a entitled kid for another, then Thompson would be a high upside target. 6'6" right shot forward. He can wheel. Got rushed in two cities imo... but the tools are tantalizing. He's older now, and hopefully man strong. 20 pounds of muscle will make him a force to be reckoned with.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Your last paragraph says a whole lot about how frustrated he must be. Breaching his contract and possibly putting a dent in his reputation.

For a player that has always had a reputation of being a leader with a great character, that’s a drastic statement. Now, if he made this decision after a year or two here then I’d be inclined to agree with you more.

But after watching what transpired in camp and during his time in the NHL this season, I completely understand his decision.

There was no future for Lias here in NY with Quinn behind the bench. Not now, nor tomorrow.

If Howden went down, the kid still wouldn’t have sniffed a shift in that top-9. Quinn had a plethora of opportunities to give him a look and didn’t. There’s obviously something there between them.

He prob picked the wrong agent.

 

[Trxjw]

Kostin, Gauthier, Thompson, Bellows, and Senyshyn are all "north / south" players if that's really what Gorton is looking for. However, I think Kostin and Gauthier are the sort of players who might get moved in a package for a NHL player. Kostin was playing very well by most accounts before his shoulder injury. Gauthier has been lights out in December for the Checkers. Neither seems like a guy who would get moved for an under-performing headache.

I'd throw Max Jones' name on the pile as well.

 

[Good Intentions]

Id be interested in the first 2. Tolvanen is a one trick pony whose trick doesnt seem to work well in NA. Rubtsov hasnt done anything to entice me, and he has injury trouble

One trick pony? Sold.

Be practical. Understand you’re not getting a can’t miss in return.

 

[haveandare]

I completely understand what you’re trying to say here, but Chytil didn’t have a great camp. He was actually bad. I recall the GDT’s where there was a great deal of concern with him.

And Shesty didn’t outplay Georgiev. We all kind of knew he’d have to stand on his head to make the roster anyway with HL and Geo here.

Lias on the other hand did outplay Howden for that 3rd line spot. When he started the year on the 4th line, I feel that was the beginning of the end with him. I wish he would have played better. He didn’t stand out at all on that 4th line. But, I understand why. Crappy linemates. No ice time. And no confidence.

I don't disagree really. I do think Lias' camp is being a bit overblown. He looked better than last year, but he wasn't some dynamo or a consistent threat to the point where it was so insulting to give him minimal NHL minutes or send him down.

The biggest point of all of this is that he's not the first or last or nearly the only player to not get the exact treatment they deserved. He's one of a very few guys to take it this way and turn it into such a huge issue. We're talking about a guy starting a single line lower than he deserved based on a good but not outstanding camp. That shouldn't be nearly enough to warrant this kind of response.

 

[Draft Guru]

I really, really hope they let him rot in Europe.