Vatican Roulette
Baile de Los Locos
Wouldn't have too.
He won't cost THAT much.
2016 1st/ Svechnikov
Ouellet
Is the most I'd pay.
Let's Talk Defensemen
- Thread starter Mantha Poodoo
- Start date
Wouldn't have too.
He won't cost THAT much.
2016 1st/ Svechnikov
Ouellet
Is the most I'd pay.
Not a fan of that.
His next contract would be a concern for me. Then again, i was against signing green because I thought he would command a 6-7 year term, so who knows i guess.
Big Buff would be awesome. Problem is, I don't think puts this team over the top, so why waste assets on him? I know Detroit gets the first crack at signing him if they grab him at the TDL, but what if his contract demands are out to lunch? That's trowing away a lot for a rental, especially since the Wings are in this weird semi-rebuild phase. I say take a run at him in the offseason, and if he wants to go to Detorit then great. If not, well that's all ya can do.
Vatican Roulette
Baile de Los Locos
You make a good point.
Personally I think Byfuglien would put Detroit over the top. He's that dynamic that Detroit doesn't have.
Offensive dman that's also physical and big.
Right on. And that's a legitimate perspective. I guess we'll agree to disagree.
Where I think we'll agree is that the Wings are a piece away from contending. I think a guy like Faulk, OEL, Subban, Hedman, Doughty etc... would give this team a legit chance at making another run. Problem is, guys like that are s pretty big piece to be missing, and are rarely, if ever traded.
I agree that Buff would put us over the top and is the exact type of D that were are desperately missing. He'd the only rental I'd be okay with overpaying for.
Sproul + 1st/Svechnikov +2nd
Sproul + 1st/Svechnikov +2nd
Heaton
Moderator
I just can't get a read on what Holland thinks about the defense. He's signed Ericsson, Quincey (who will get re-signed, unless he decides to leave) Green, Kronwall, Smith, and we have Marchenko and XO signed. Can anyone honestly look at that core and tell me that's a Stanley Cup caliber defense?
We'll be lucky to have one defensemen get a measly 35 points this year, that's pathetic.
SpookyTsuki
Registered User
- Dec 3, 2014
- 15,916
- 671
Well kronnor and green should have 35-40 usually and dd probably a fluke year but he could get 30. It's ok if petr can carry
Pavels Dog
Registered User
He probably thinks the defense would be helped by getting an elite #1 d-man, because that's what we're missing.
We're pretty solid top to bottom when Quincey returns. This team isn't scoring a lot of goals this year (you can blame it on the D, but the D is playing more offensively and we've added Green) so everyone's numbers look pretty bad.
Heaton
Moderator
Our team hasn't been very good offensively since Lidstrom and Rafalski left, I think the correlation is pretty accurate there. Green isn't the same offensive defensemen he was in Washington, mainly because the Wings don't have elite forwards like Washington did.
I think what we're learning is that the Wings are void of any real elite forwards. Datsyuk and Z are still very good players, but they're no longer elite. It can be because of health or whatever other reasons you want to blame it on, but we haven't had a 30 goal scorer or a player finish in the top 10 in points for quite a while.
A great example is Dallas, they've gone to another level this year and I think a big reason is due to the emergence of Klingberg.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
Well, yeah. Other than cloning Lidstrom this team is short on options when it comes to solving it's main issues though. Green was a great signing but he can't off-set Datsyuk being a ghost of himself this season or singlehandedly create a working PP. Big Buff would be a nice addition as an offensive punch from the D, but it's also dangerous. This team is balancing on a knife's edge of being in a lot of 1-goal games, not scoring a lot but also not giving up a lot. We're currently doing pretty good, all things considered. Buff would make our situation more volatile, increasing potential for goalscoring both ways. It would be a gamble, and one I'd be wary of taking unless the price is very reasonable.
Currently I'm fine with sticking with the process. I'd love it if Holland could swing a trade with Anaheim to acquire Vatanen or Theodore, guys that can actually be part of our core going forward. Not an aging d-man that will be overpaid and will hit his decline just as Larkin, Mrazek, Mantha, Athanasiou etc. hit their stride.
sarcastro
Registered User
- Jul 28, 2005
- 13,059
- 1
He probably thinks that the only way they get a real #1 is if one of his current guys grows into one. He's probably right. Signing one is not an option since they never hit the open market, and trading for one without crippling your future is practically impossible too.
Heaton
Moderator
I'm still conflicted with the process, because I don't see the process getting us anywhere as the current trend isn't going up.
detredWINgs
Registered User
Definitely disagree. They've traded him once and opted not to have serious negotiations with him pre-July since. There's no way he has the same type of relationship with the organization that others do. Yes, he's improved since then, but they aren't going to lose sleep over hurting his feelings. They've also essentially missed him for the entire season thus far and not much looks different, other than Marchenko emerging and Smith not going away.
Holland's hand has been forced more and more the past year year and part of me hopes its made him more comfortable with the uncomfortable decisions. He bought-out his biggest free agent signing of the past several years prior to Green. He gave a 19 year-old an opening night roster spot. He waived his favorite son. He's now waived a $2.4M player with a waiver-eligible bottom-pairing defenseman still on the roster.
Heaton
Moderator
Who was the last UFA that played a prominent role on this team that Holland just let walk? They gave Quincey the opportunity to find a better deal before re-signing him recently and Holland gave him the best deal he was going to get. The only reason Hudler left was that he got overpaid (at the time) in Calgary and Filppula didn't want to re-sign in Detroit. Unless Holland gets someone better, I can't see Quincey not re-signing, especially since they've made no effort to include XO this year.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
detredWINgs
Registered User
Quincey. Quincey was literally the last "prominent" UFA that they let walk and, like you said, neither side could find a better option. They still made peace with him potentially leaving. Now you're going to say that the Wings are absolutely going to re-sign one of the only guys they've let escape twice when doing so would force one of Marchenko/Smith out of the lineup and keep Ouellet in the AHL - a guy they've already had to placate with a signing bonus because he's treading water in the AHL? So I guess when Smith is up for renewal next year and the Wings have to promote Ouellet, they'll just re-sign Smith too and carry 8 NHL D? Ok. Agree to disagree.
Heaton
Moderator
You seem to have a better grasp on the situation than I do. Marchenko is the #5 D right now, and XO couldn't even play over Kindl the last time he was called up, so where does the organization view XO? He's clearly behind Marchenko and he was behind Kindl and Smith this year.
They view Quincey ahead of Marchenko and XO, but they're going to let him walk next year in favor playing one of the kids over him? Or are you expecting them to sign someone better than Quincey? Because that's literally the only way I can see it happening. As for letting Quincey go originally, that was a mistake that Holland already paid dearly for.
Heaton
Moderator
I need more of an answer than that, is this team better than last year? I think we're better in a few areas and worse in others. We thought our defense would be better and it's arguably worse than last year. We thought our offense would be better, and it's definitely not.
We don't have any exciting defensive players coming up and the ones already up are either aging or #4's at best. If Larkin wasn't on the team this year I don't think I'd be able to find any positives outside of Mrazek.
WingedWheel1987
Registered User
The Wings used a 1st round pick to bring him back. Holland's only priority is to ensure the streak stays alive for one more year. He stopped playing the long game several years ago.
Quincey is a known commodity and with the Wings defensive prospects looking like another group of #4/5 tweeners, Holland will bring back Q to maximize the Wings odds of simply making the playoffs.
Especially with the season Kronwall is having, the writing is on the wall when it comes to Q's eventual return.
detredWINgs
Registered User
I don't know what you're talking about. We're talking about re-signing Quincey in the off-season. The fact that Holland gave up a 1st for Quincey and exposed him to the free market after that only highlights the point about him not being an automatic re-signing.
On paper the team is much better than last year. Adding Green, Larkin, and swapping Richards for Weiss all are vast improvements over last year. Q being out has hurt but there are clearly other issues that are leading to team play that is clearly inferior to last year. The GM did his job this past off season. The coach was given a roster that should be playing much better than it has. We can continue to ignore that fact but why would we want to?
Ricelund
̶W̶e̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶t̶e̶a̶m̶
Yeah, Quincey's coming back. Kronwall's declining and they'll want the stability on defense that Quincey brings.
That is exactly opposite of what he has done. When Lidstrom retired and the cap sunk its' teeth he chose to go with the long game and build through the draft. He signed bridge deals to buy time for that process. He has been patient and effective in that time.
If you look at the standings making the playoffs gives you a chance. There truly is parity in the NHL whether you want to acknowledge it or not.
WingedWheel1987
Registered User
The same two teams win 5/6 previous Stanley Cups.
LOOK AT THE PARITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How am i doing?
Parity doesn't mean mediocre teams win the cup. It means mediocre teams make the playoffs and proceed to lose in the Stanley Cup playoffs to the elite teams.
