It's not just that he's overpaid, it's that he's overpaid with term and it appears to be impossible to move him unless we're just ditching him through waivers. Which we also seem unwilling to do, for some odd reason. If Kindl was making half what he makes, or didn't have more years left on his deal, we would have probably moved on and used that roster space to get another kid a look, which would be a wash at this point.
Let's Talk Defensemen
- Thread starter Mantha Poodoo
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It's not just that he's overpaid, it's that he's overpaid with term and it appears to be impossible to move him unless we're just ditching him through waivers. Which we also seem unwilling to do, for some odd reason. If Kindl was making half what he makes, or didn't have more years left on his deal, we would have probably moved on and used that roster space to get another kid a look, which would be a wash at this point.
Cyborg Yzerberg
Registered User
Ultimately, Frk It is right. We need to upgrade outside the roster, even at the expense of some of our forwards.
Out pipeline for the blue line includes Sproul, Ouellet, and Jensen, with maybe Sarijaarvi and Hicketts down the line. We don't know if any of those guys can develop into top 4 defenemen. Ouellet is playing on the third pair down in Grand Rapids. Hopefully Vili can develop something into a Vatanen type, but he's a ways away.
Conversely, our forward group is ripe with talent, and thanks to locking up a depth player to a lifetime contract, which would have been better replaced with cheap ELC's, the spots are only going to be harder to come by. We have Mantha, Svechnikov, AA, Bertuzzi, and Holmstrom knocking at the door, with Natasiuk, Turgeon, and Nosek sniffing around depth roster spots all over the next 3 years. While losing Nyquist or Tatar or Sheahan would suck in the short term, it is self evident what would be better in the long term for the franchise.
And for the record, Kindl, Ericsson, and Smith blow. Quincey isn't that good either.
Out pipeline for the blue line includes Sproul, Ouellet, and Jensen, with maybe Sarijaarvi and Hicketts down the line. We don't know if any of those guys can develop into top 4 defenemen. Ouellet is playing on the third pair down in Grand Rapids. Hopefully Vili can develop something into a Vatanen type, but he's a ways away.
Conversely, our forward group is ripe with talent, and thanks to locking up a depth player to a lifetime contract, which would have been better replaced with cheap ELC's, the spots are only going to be harder to come by. We have Mantha, Svechnikov, AA, Bertuzzi, and Holmstrom knocking at the door, with Natasiuk, Turgeon, and Nosek sniffing around depth roster spots all over the next 3 years. While losing Nyquist or Tatar or Sheahan would suck in the short term, it is self evident what would be better in the long term for the franchise.
And for the record, Kindl, Ericsson, and Smith blow. Quincey isn't that good either.
Classicnamesup
MVP Backhand Slapper
Rangers seem to want to dump Staal and Girardi. They are both on 5 or 6 year contracts for 5.5-5.7 though. Yikes, we have enough terrible long term contracts. A nice example of what a mistake giving these contracts can be though.
Maybe Girardi still has some play in him? Staal is not good enough
Edit: OFC they have NMC & NTC, maybe willing to waive. I wouldn't but whatever
Maybe Girardi still has some play in him? Staal is not good enough
Edit: OFC they have NMC & NTC, maybe willing to waive. I wouldn't but whatever
Henkka
Registered User
Smith and Kindl should be benched, if we want to ice the playoff defence.
Playoff defence:
Kronwall - Green
DeKeyser - Quincey
Ericsson - Marchenko
But regular season defence is based on different planning, so either Kindl and Smith will probably be there and Marchenko will be sent to Griffins.
Cyborg Yzerberg
Registered User
Absolutely not, we should either go for a pending UFA like Byfuglien or Hamhuis, or seek out a long term option that won't be cheap, like Josi or Shattenkirk(who aren't necessarily available, they're just examples.)
Making the playoffs is certainly no given, so Detroit needs to ice the best blue line they can. This especially applies given the fact that Marchenko isn't going to get anything out of GR. He's an NHL player and he needs to play and attempt to develop up here. He's not a teen with high offensive ceiling who needs prime opportunity in the AHL.
Mantha Poodoo
Playoff Beard
- Jun 5, 2008
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I think at this point my comments about Ericsson stand. He needs to sit for somebody. Problem is it doesn't need to be Kindl. I think once Quincey comes back he should be the target unless Bobby Smith super regresses again.
Ericsson's possession metrics are poor, he's got double the giveaways of the other dmen (and leads the team by a 13 giveaway gap), doesn't block much shots for all of his defensive ice time despite his poor possession metrics (see March and Dekeyser, who are both better possession players, and yet block more shots relative to their ice time), and is an offensive black hole (March hasn't been great yet either, but it's his first season).
Only thing he's got is willingness to play the body, but at this point, so do Kronwall, Smith, March, KFQ, and even DDK and Green (the latter surprisingly so).
I'm hoping that part of it is a nagging injury, and that sitting him will give him time to heal up so he can be a little bit more like the good stable Big Rig come playoff time.
Ericsson's possession metrics are poor, he's got double the giveaways of the other dmen (and leads the team by a 13 giveaway gap), doesn't block much shots for all of his defensive ice time despite his poor possession metrics (see March and Dekeyser, who are both better possession players, and yet block more shots relative to their ice time), and is an offensive black hole (March hasn't been great yet either, but it's his first season).
Only thing he's got is willingness to play the body, but at this point, so do Kronwall, Smith, March, KFQ, and even DDK and Green (the latter surprisingly so).
I'm hoping that part of it is a nagging injury, and that sitting him will give him time to heal up so he can be a little bit more like the good stable Big Rig come playoff time.
GoAwayDanCleary
DRWCC
- Aug 6, 2012
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I've never seen a defenseman as bad on his backhand as Ericsson and we somehow expect him to play on the right side.
HolyJumpin40
Registered User
- May 15, 2014
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Henkka
Registered User
I would be ready to do that.
What wonders be most, is that Vatanen is pretty good 2nd pair penalty killer for a smallish guy.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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Rather package for something better. Throw in some firsts and see what you can get.
Big trades don't happen during the season anymore. Any discussion should probably be about rentals. There have only been around 6 minor deals since Oct.
big trades can happen if you have a gm that has the nerve to do it. we just saw it with nashville and Columbus
Hammettf2b
oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
- 36,243
- 14,753
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
- 36,243
- 14,753
I like him a lot, but he is a different flavor of what we already have. We need a defensemen who is a meaningful upgrade over Dekeyser and Green, who can play big minutes on the top pair. He doesn't need to necessarily be a "number 1" but does need to fit comfortably on the top pair.
Vatanen is likely to be another deck chair to rearrange.
All the rumblings around Tampa make me think we'll see another one with regards to Drouin and/or Stamkos pretty soon as well. I mean, especially if Tampa continues to underperform. They are literally not even a wild card team right now. They're behind 7 points to #3 in the Atlantic. They're down 2-3 points to the wildcard teams and one of those wild card teams has 2 games in hand.
If it looks like they're gonna miss, they might go into sell mode and trade the guy who doesn't seem that keen on re-signing and wants 10M+ a year and the guy who keeps complaining about not getting ice. We know Stevie can make big trades if he needs to. Bishop/Conacher, St. Louis/Callahan.
I think there are about 10, true number one defensemen in the league right now. Those ten aren't available.
PelagicJoe
Registered User
Once KFQ is back, our top four is easily
Kronwall-Green
DDK-KFQ
The only mystery is the third pairing, or rather who we would pair with Marchenko. At the same time, I know it's likely Holland sends March back to GR, despite the fact that he has clearly earned a spot above Smith, Kindl, and even Ericsson. So we'll be stuck with Big Rig and one of Smith, Kindl, or March on the third pair.
I agree with OP that Kindl is the biggest liability on the team as of right now. Smith still has a little hope, and has looked decent the past couple of weeks. Kindl is clearly #8. Trade him ASAP. If unable to trade, then waive him.
I wish KH wouldn't have signed Big Rog until 2020. That's easily the worst contract on the team right now since it's next to impossible to dump him.
Anyway, lunch is almost over. More to come after work.
Kronwall-Green
DDK-KFQ
The only mystery is the third pairing, or rather who we would pair with Marchenko. At the same time, I know it's likely Holland sends March back to GR, despite the fact that he has clearly earned a spot above Smith, Kindl, and even Ericsson. So we'll be stuck with Big Rig and one of Smith, Kindl, or March on the third pair.
I agree with OP that Kindl is the biggest liability on the team as of right now. Smith still has a little hope, and has looked decent the past couple of weeks. Kindl is clearly #8. Trade him ASAP. If unable to trade, then waive him.
I wish KH wouldn't have signed Big Rog until 2020. That's easily the worst contract on the team right now since it's next to impossible to dump him.
Anyway, lunch is almost over. More to come after work.
Henkka
Registered User
Quincey does not go easily to TOP4. Ericsson has been good lately and Q needs some games to adjust again on shape.
Quincey-Marchenko on the 3rd pair.
Shaman464
No u
I'm not sure about that, per se, there are definitely younger players with the ability to be a #1 that Holland could inquire upon. Sure no team is going to trade a Shea Weber for Detroit spare parts, but, that doesn't mean that there aren't options.
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
Big Buff would be considered a legitimate #1 in Detroit especially with Kronner declining.
PelagicJoe
Registered User
Eh, I like Q paired with Danny. I'm cool with letting compete for the second pairing.
Hammettf2b
oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg
Not willing to give up Nyquist and a couple of firsts for a rented Buff. i doubt Holland would be either.
