Mantha Poodoo
Playoff Beard
- Jun 5, 2008
- 4,109
- 0
So given that we do have some issues and a lot of discussion about our defensemen both individually and as a whole, I thought a thread seemed appropriate.
First off, I'd like to start this off by linking to BinCookin's defensive stats experiment thread:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1969545
That said, I'd prefer to keep that thread to the topic of his system and the numbers within and not distract too much with discussion.
Now then, my personal examination of the D-men at this point in the season.
Kronwall: Was being relied upon to do too much, especially when Blash was trying to play Glendening against every line on the opposing team. A little more team stability has let him open up his game a little more and he's looked a lot more threatening the past few games. Overall, he's still probably the best d-man on the team; just imagine any of the other d-men that we have being asked to do what he had to for the first 20 games or so.
Green: This guy has been a godsend. While the defensive side of his game is nothing to write home about, it's also not bad, and he's a great possession driver. He's also been a huge asset to getting out of the defensive zone, one of the biggest problems we've had the past handful of years. There's little question to me he's played himself into the #2 position for now.
Dekeyser: Not a great start for him, but as the team has stabilized a little so has he. He's still firmly our #3 and in general plays a very sound game. Though he doesn't have Green's offensive vision, he likewise helps with the team's breakout.
Quincey: The team actually misses him rather badly. KFQ is a guy that crumples if you try to have him to do too much, but he's a solid #4 dman who has a decent defensive game. While he's not an offensive wizard, he's also not a black hole and can generally help keep the game moving.
Marchenko: He still needs sheltered minutes, but he's got a mature game for his age and good defensive acumen. The book is still out on his ability to generate offense, but he is yet another d-man we have with good puck movement from the back end and I think we'll see more of this as he settles in. I'd tentatively call him an established #5 or #6 for now.
Kindl: Is boring. I think this more than anything else contributes to the lack of enthusiasm about him. He's a decent skater but not amazing. He's a big player but not particularly physical. He's a decent puckmover but not great. He's got reasonable offensive vision but not stunning. Basically, he's a run of the mill bottom pairing d-man that can occasionally fill in on a 2nd PP unit. He always seems to have confidence issues, especially where physicality is concerned; he might well be a boring #4 if his game wasn't so soft. That said, I don't think he's our biggest issue on defense.
Smith: Believe it or not, I don't think Smith is the biggest issue on the defense either. That said, he's is a very particular player. I think he might do better on another team at this point. Ideally, he just needs to be given a long leash, let him almost be a 4th forward and realize that you're going to have risky plays when he's on the ice. What this also means is that he needs a defensively stable and smart partner (see back when he was paired with Kronwall, or maybe Dekeyser). What should never happen is pairing him with someone insecure like Kindl. This is where the real problem happens with Kindl and Smith: trying to find defensive pairs that don't make you cringe while avoiding playing them together.
Ericsson: The team tire fire. His possession numbers blow. His ice time has been steadily decreasing. He takes an absurd amount of penalties, even more per game this year than in the past. He had a couple decent years, but I think he might have outlasted his usefulness to the Wings. If nothing else, he needs to be woken up. The highlight of the Dekeyser - Ericsson pairing is quite frankly Dekeyser. The only thing worth keeping him around for is the PK, and if KFQ were back I wouldn't even mind booting him off that at this point. His overly safe play keeps him from looking horrible, but so far this season he brings nothing except penalties. A decent game against the worst team in the league isn't really selling me on him. He was uninspiring against a tired Boston and was basically trying to give the Blues points for some reason.
Looking at the defensive group as a whole, we are destined for some frustration no matter what pairings are used, particularly until KFQ gets back. That said, I think this might be a good time for experimentation.
What would I want to try for now?
Kronwall - Green
Dekeyser - Smith
Kindl - Marchenko
Kronwall and Green together should have been a thing since day 1. Dunno why it took so long, but I'm not particularly inclined to change it.
I think Dekeyser is safe enough and a good enough puck mover that you can play Smith with him and let Smith do his thing, but you have to let Smith do his thing. If not, he will be an endless source of frustration. Let him jump in on the offense and hit people a bit.
Kindl and Marchenko together would be a boring 3rd pairing minutes pairing, but not a bad one. They're both reasonably safe for a 3rd pair. Marchenko brings enough defensive zone grit to balance out Kindl's softness and hopefully even inspire him a little. Kindl is a decent enough puck mover to let Marchenko get comfortable with his game. I wouldn't expect the world out of this pairing, but it wouldn't be a dumpster fire like Kindl and Smith together.
Worst case, I think Dekeyser-Smith fails to work (likely on account of Smith) and you throw in a hopefully woken up Ericsson back onto the pairing with Dekeyser after he's sit a couple games. When KFQ comes back, if that weird experiment works, make a stable pairing out of KFQ and March, and if not, put KFQ back with DD and stick with Kindl-March.
I'd like to make clear that I don't expect the Smith experiment idea to work. I don't think he'll be allowed to cut loose like he needs to, and that he's a poor fit for what the Wings expect of defensemen. I would honestly look at moving him for some small value in part of a larger trade. Likewise, I think Ericsson is playing his way off the team and being slowly replaced by other people that do his job better/cheaper.
First off, I'd like to start this off by linking to BinCookin's defensive stats experiment thread:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1969545
That said, I'd prefer to keep that thread to the topic of his system and the numbers within and not distract too much with discussion.
Now then, my personal examination of the D-men at this point in the season.
Kronwall: Was being relied upon to do too much, especially when Blash was trying to play Glendening against every line on the opposing team. A little more team stability has let him open up his game a little more and he's looked a lot more threatening the past few games. Overall, he's still probably the best d-man on the team; just imagine any of the other d-men that we have being asked to do what he had to for the first 20 games or so.
Green: This guy has been a godsend. While the defensive side of his game is nothing to write home about, it's also not bad, and he's a great possession driver. He's also been a huge asset to getting out of the defensive zone, one of the biggest problems we've had the past handful of years. There's little question to me he's played himself into the #2 position for now.
Dekeyser: Not a great start for him, but as the team has stabilized a little so has he. He's still firmly our #3 and in general plays a very sound game. Though he doesn't have Green's offensive vision, he likewise helps with the team's breakout.
Quincey: The team actually misses him rather badly. KFQ is a guy that crumples if you try to have him to do too much, but he's a solid #4 dman who has a decent defensive game. While he's not an offensive wizard, he's also not a black hole and can generally help keep the game moving.
Marchenko: He still needs sheltered minutes, but he's got a mature game for his age and good defensive acumen. The book is still out on his ability to generate offense, but he is yet another d-man we have with good puck movement from the back end and I think we'll see more of this as he settles in. I'd tentatively call him an established #5 or #6 for now.
Kindl: Is boring. I think this more than anything else contributes to the lack of enthusiasm about him. He's a decent skater but not amazing. He's a big player but not particularly physical. He's a decent puckmover but not great. He's got reasonable offensive vision but not stunning. Basically, he's a run of the mill bottom pairing d-man that can occasionally fill in on a 2nd PP unit. He always seems to have confidence issues, especially where physicality is concerned; he might well be a boring #4 if his game wasn't so soft. That said, I don't think he's our biggest issue on defense.
Smith: Believe it or not, I don't think Smith is the biggest issue on the defense either. That said, he's is a very particular player. I think he might do better on another team at this point. Ideally, he just needs to be given a long leash, let him almost be a 4th forward and realize that you're going to have risky plays when he's on the ice. What this also means is that he needs a defensively stable and smart partner (see back when he was paired with Kronwall, or maybe Dekeyser). What should never happen is pairing him with someone insecure like Kindl. This is where the real problem happens with Kindl and Smith: trying to find defensive pairs that don't make you cringe while avoiding playing them together.
Ericsson: The team tire fire. His possession numbers blow. His ice time has been steadily decreasing. He takes an absurd amount of penalties, even more per game this year than in the past. He had a couple decent years, but I think he might have outlasted his usefulness to the Wings. If nothing else, he needs to be woken up. The highlight of the Dekeyser - Ericsson pairing is quite frankly Dekeyser. The only thing worth keeping him around for is the PK, and if KFQ were back I wouldn't even mind booting him off that at this point. His overly safe play keeps him from looking horrible, but so far this season he brings nothing except penalties. A decent game against the worst team in the league isn't really selling me on him. He was uninspiring against a tired Boston and was basically trying to give the Blues points for some reason.
Looking at the defensive group as a whole, we are destined for some frustration no matter what pairings are used, particularly until KFQ gets back. That said, I think this might be a good time for experimentation.
What would I want to try for now?
Kronwall - Green
Dekeyser - Smith
Kindl - Marchenko
Kronwall and Green together should have been a thing since day 1. Dunno why it took so long, but I'm not particularly inclined to change it.
I think Dekeyser is safe enough and a good enough puck mover that you can play Smith with him and let Smith do his thing, but you have to let Smith do his thing. If not, he will be an endless source of frustration. Let him jump in on the offense and hit people a bit.
Kindl and Marchenko together would be a boring 3rd pairing minutes pairing, but not a bad one. They're both reasonably safe for a 3rd pair. Marchenko brings enough defensive zone grit to balance out Kindl's softness and hopefully even inspire him a little. Kindl is a decent enough puck mover to let Marchenko get comfortable with his game. I wouldn't expect the world out of this pairing, but it wouldn't be a dumpster fire like Kindl and Smith together.
Worst case, I think Dekeyser-Smith fails to work (likely on account of Smith) and you throw in a hopefully woken up Ericsson back onto the pairing with Dekeyser after he's sit a couple games. When KFQ comes back, if that weird experiment works, make a stable pairing out of KFQ and March, and if not, put KFQ back with DD and stick with Kindl-March.
I'd like to make clear that I don't expect the Smith experiment idea to work. I don't think he'll be allowed to cut loose like he needs to, and that he's a poor fit for what the Wings expect of defensemen. I would honestly look at moving him for some small value in part of a larger trade. Likewise, I think Ericsson is playing his way off the team and being slowly replaced by other people that do his job better/cheaper.
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