OT: Let's talk about movies (and TV shows)... Part IV

[Kimota]

I think there has been as much crap, mediocre and formulaic movies way back before the modern era also. The 40s,50s and 60s are filled with movies that attempt to follow a successful formula.

I think people are just being nostalgic here. There have been so many great movies over the years. Not everything can be a master piece. Sure, the studios want to make money, but they've always wanted to do so, it isn't anything new. For every 10-15 POS movies there are 1-2 great ones, this hasn't changed.

Hell, I'm sure people were having this same conversation in the 70s, 80s and 90s as well.

A case could be made that things tend to get worse and worse so that is why people in the 70s and 80s would say that as well.

But I think the chunk of films that were done in the 30s, 40s and 50s were probably of more quality than any other time period in Cinema history. Big stars were making close to 8 films a year cause they were shoot fast and there was so many being made by studios that studios had set up a system of writers that really these guys were great craftsmen that knew how to tell a story and had to do it quickly. It wasn't a bunch of scripts made up of various sources like they do now with various writers and corporate memos. Cause they would never had things done in the current system. The guys that wrote Casablanca for example, had written so many gangster/noir pictures that they knew the mechanic of a script inside out. They were surprised when later on when the film was recognized cause for them it was just another noir picture. Just to look at the Westerns and Gangster/Noir pictures from 1930 and the end of the 60s, the quality of the number of movies is astounding and will never be repeated. The writing is just superb and they were good mainly because of that, they had great scripts and followed them to the T.

 

[Kimota]

About Nolan, he's one of my favorites but apart from the characters not always being developed, I think that sometime he tends to overwrite his movies and like I said previously of other filmmakers, over-complicate matters. The End of Dark Knight with the two boats and hostage situation was a bit like that. The whole Rises movie was this way and Inception was a case where if you enjoyed the idea presented, you went along for the ride but if you didn't enjoy it, all the ideas became noise for a time. (Cause like Blasphemous said, the characters probably were not strong enough to keep you grounded, maybe?)

 

[Kimota]

Back in the 70's a mechanical shark filmed in a lagoon was an innovative and exciting matter in film. I haven't seen that movie in years I wonder how it stands up but a CGI version would be like a Jay-z version of an Ac/dc song. Not very interesting to those who experienced the original.

I still want to see a well-made giant CGI Great White one day. If anybody get around to do MEG....

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I still want to see a well-made giant CGI Great White one day. If anybody get around to do MEG....

It exists and it's based on a true story. It's called The Reef.

It's a good but not great film. Loosely based on the story of a group of people shipwrecked and stalked by a shark. It was really a Tiger shark doing the stalking but for the film they changed it to a great white. I enjoyed it but don't expect Jaws.

Open Water was another creepy well made film. Not really a shark movie though... more in common with Castaway than with Jaws. Still, that was a movie that stayed with me after seeing it.

 

[Kimota]

It exists and it's based on a true story. It's called The Reef.

It's a good but not great film. Loosely based on the story of a group of people shipwrecked and stalked by a shark. It was really a Tiger shark doing the stalking but for the film they changed it to a great white. I enjoyed it but don't expect Jaws.

Open Water was another creepy well made film. Not really a shark movie though... more in common with Castaway than with Jaws. Still, that was a movie that stayed with me after seeing it.

The Reef is fantastic. I was pretty surprised by it. To even imagine what these people went through, absolute terror.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

A case could be made that things tend to get worse and worse so that is why people in the 70s and 80s would say that as well.

But I think the chunk of films that were done in the 30s, 40s and 50s were probably of more quality than any other time period in Cinema history. Big stars were making close to 8 films a year cause they were shoot fast and there was so many being made by studios that studios had set up a system of writers that really these guys were great craftsmen that knew how to tell a story and had to do it quickly. It wasn't a bunch of scripts made up of various sources like they do now with various writers and corporate memos. Cause they would never had things done in the current system. The guys that wrote Casablanca for example, had written so many gangster/noir pictures that they knew the mechanic of a script inside out. They were surprised when later on when the film was recognized cause for them it was just another noir picture. Just to look at the Westerns and Gangster/Noir pictures from 1930 and the end of the 60s, the quality of the number of movies is astounding and will never be repeated. The writing is just superb and they were good mainly because of that, they had great scripts and followed them to the T.

I think a case can be made where there were tons of great films in the eras you speak of, yet it definitely helps that so many of them were being made compared to now, where the risk is ultimately too high to warrant a steady stream of projects from major studios. Also, Hollywood was very much a poisonous environment that feasted on filmmakers and screenwriters that wanted to challenge the norm, often blacklisting them and ruining entire careers (thanks to the help of an American Congress around the time of the red scare). I have this book somewhere in my collection about independent filmmaking and Hollywood globalization, if I find it I'll post a picture of it here. Very interesting read that starts with the Hollywood perspective and its history in the first half before traversing into other film cultures in the second half, from Romania to France to Canada.

About Nolan, he's one of my favorites but apart from the characters not always being developed, I think that sometime he tends to overwrite his movies and like I said previously of other filmmakers, over-complicate matters. The End of Dark Knight with the two boats and hostage situation was a bit like that. The whole Rises movie was this way and Inception was a case where if you enjoyed the idea presented, you went along for the ride but if you didn't enjoy it, all the ideas became noise for a time. (Cause like Blasphemous said, the characters probably were not strong enough to keep you grounded, maybe?)

Essentially that. I think your point about overcomplicated stories is also true, but I would not say it detracts too much for me. The mechanics behind his plots usually fascinate me enough to make me shrug at the missteps.

But yeah, I find films that tend to resonate are usually based off strong character arcs. In fact, it is why I think I prefer Batman Begins to the Dark Knight and Rises; although the Dark Knight has a fantastic villain and has an epic scope, I prefer Batman Begins because the central character arc is stronger. Batman Begins has Bruce Wayne as the major changing character, and I felt the payoff was definitely there.

By comparison, the Dark Knight's main character arc lies with Harvey Dent, who was underwritten and lacked a believable shift in character. Same with Selina Kyle in Rises, whose motivations never seemed to be quite clear as we never really get into her head. Alas, still think Nolan did a great job all things considered.

 

[Church]

My recently watched stuff and ongoing.

House of Cards - Deserves all the hype it gets. It's perfect.

Sleepy Hollow - Probably my biggest surprise of the year. I had no expectations whatsoever but I've got to say, I've seen no flaws. It has a nice Supernatural vibe to it.

Halt or catch fire - Currently watching that on AMC. The whole 80's computer boom industry, synth arcade music and sex drove me to that show. I see alot of potential with the show so far. Lee Pace is awesome in it.

The Strain - It started Sunday. Watched the first episode. I really loved Blade 2 and am a big scifi addict so the trailer really pumped me hard. I don't know if it's cuz I had high expectations for it that it felt underwhelming and like it's been already done type of show. Like I said, just 1 episode... Can't wait to watch the rest to prove I'm wrong.

 

[ZARTONK]

I found House of Lies on Saturday, finished three seasons by Monday. It's pretty damn good.

 

[SB164]

Rambo is a classic movie that when you see it originally you can't get enough but going back you wonder why you liked it so much. (but secretly still love it )

I'd say that movie for me would be Goonies and Gremlins oh and original cartoon Transformer movie!

Still one of my favourites. The ending is especially poignant.

 

[ZARTONK]

Rambo is a classic movie that when you see it originally you can't get enough but going back you wonder why you liked it so much. (but secretly still love it )

I'd say that movie for me would be Goonies and Gremlins oh and original cartoon Transformer movie!

I have actually never seen Rambo...

 

[MasterDecoy]

I am loving halt and catch fire. Terribad name, great show. I am worried that they are about to take the same awkward turn madmen took when it went all soapy though.... Like every character has a daaaaark paaaast ooooh

Ok, except the main engineer...

 

[gunnerdom]

Rambo is a classic movie that when you see it originally you can't get enough but going back you wonder why you liked it so much. (but secretly still love it )

I'd say that movie for me would be Goonies and Gremlins oh and original cartoon Transformer movie!

I would totally add Monster Squad on top of Goonies and Gremlins. I still watch those movies every year.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I am loving halt and catch fire. Terribad name, great show. I am worried that they are about to take the same awkward turn madmen took when it went all soapy though.... Like every character has a daaaaark paaaast ooooh

Ok, except the main engineer...

Show is okay, girl is amazingly hot. Doesn't seem to be going anywhere though. It's holding my interest but it's one of those shows that I might get bored with soon.

Also, it's set in 1983... great year for music and it would be nice to hear some of it. Year of Thriller, Synchronicity, Let's Dance... some great tunes that year.

 

[Andy]

I still say that the Dark Knight Rises would have been best serve had it been split into two films. There is just way too much going in the story to fit in 2h45. It had no room to breathe. Too bad Nolan was fed up, but a two-part story closer would have been amazing. Part 1 could have developed Bane a little more, go more in depth with Bruce's comeback as Batman and then end with Bruce having been between. Part II could have began in the pit and the occupation of Gotham.

 

[68*]

Watched The Wicker Man (1973) yesterday. Good movie but man you feel like you are losing your mind.

Can someone suggest me some good realistic horror movies? I'm not into ghosts and ****. I'm more a The Strangers guy.

 

[habamillions]

Prisoners is one of the very few movies where I pretty much figured out the ending before it happened and that's a let down for me.

What are the questions that torment you?

ya same here. knew the villains about halfway through too. but its the very end. dont want to say exactly so i dont ruin it for ppl who didnt see it. but it leaves it open for a sequel. if there isnt a sequel then its a very bad ending.
then theres the fact that he is beating an innocent man. what happens with that? never get an answer. i guess that goes hand in hand with he cliffhanger ending

 

[habamillions]

Watched The Wicker Man (1973) yesterday. Good movie but man you feel like you are losing your mind.

Can someone suggest me some good realistic horror movies? I'm not into ghosts and ****. I'm more a The Strangers guy.

good thrillers too be helpful too. live movies like kiss the girls,bone collector,along came a spider,prisoners,double jeopardy. try to figure out who done it type movies?

 

[Brainiac]

Still one of my favourites. The ending is especially poignant.

The ending was unfortunately changed because of... you guess it... test screening.

The original ending had Rambo take col. Trautman's gun and commit suicide.

 

[68*]

good thrillers too be helpful too. live movies like kiss the girls,bone collector,along came a spider,prisoners,double jeopardy. try to figure out who done it type movies?

Yeah I love movies like that. Identity is one of my favourites.

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[Brainiac]

Also, I do tend to agree with people that a lot of nostalgia is probably affecting our perception. Only the best movies from past decades did survive the test of time, so of course if we look only at those, and not at all the cr4p that was produced, our perception is biased.

With that being said, I still think that some factors do tend to change the overall quality. One of these is cost/budget, which gives more power to producers. It's not a problem by itself, a movie producer invests his money and he can do whatever he wants with it.

But he wants a good return, so he's got to produce something that people will want to see. And in that regard, test screenings became a real problem, IMO. Most filmmakers have to shoot 2 or 3 different endings/versions of their movies and test screening, the great equalizer, is used to decide what will be the final cut.

That Rambo example I've just shown is typical. I mean, First Blood was not an action movie, it was drama all the way with a little bit of action/fighting. Rambo had to die at the end. And it would have saved us from all the sequels!

 

[Andy]

Also, I do tend to agree with people that a lot of nostalgia is probably affecting our perception. Only the best movies from past decades did survive the test of time, so of course if we look only at those, and not at all the cr4p that was produced, our perception is biased.

With that being said, I still think that some factors do tend to change the overall quality. One of these is cost/budget, which gives more power to producers. It's not a problem by itself, a movie producer invests his money and he can do whatever he wants with it.

But he wants a good return, so he's got to produce something that people will want to see. And in that regard, screen testing became a real problem, IMO. Most filmmakers have to shoot 2 or 3 different endings/versions of their movies and screen testing, the great equalizer, is used to decide what will be the final cut.

That Rambo example I've just shown is typical. I mean, First Blood was not an action movie, it was drama all the way with a little bit of action/fighting. Rambo had to die at the end. And it would have saved us from all the sequels!

I thought the most recent sequel was actually pretty entertaining. Rambo First Blood was an incredible film though. Definitely agree with you that it was a drama. A lot of people brush it aside as it being just another action movie, but the story is great. That ending is really powerful imo. I'm glad they didn't have him commit suicide. The first time I saw the film, I really wasn't expecting him to break down like that.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Watched The Wicker Man (1973) yesterday. Good movie but man you feel like you are losing your mind.

Can someone suggest me some good realistic horror movies? I'm not into ghosts and ****. I'm more a The Strangers guy.

Without ghosts and monsters?

Dark Thrillers:

Seven
Blood Simple
The Game
Wait Until Dark
Mr. Brooks
Fracture


Horror:

Halloween
Texas Chainsaw Massacre
Silence of the Lambs
Psycho

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Without ghosts and monsters?

Dark Thrillers:

Seven
Blood Simple
The Game
Wait Until Dark
Mr. Brooks
Fracture


Horror:

Halloween
Texas Chainsaw Massacre
Silence of the Lambs
Psycho

Good list. I'll add Martyrs as a horror film that stuck with me as well. Prepare for subtitles, although I get the feeling you'll be paying too much attention to the on-screen stuff before too long, for better or worse.

 

[CanuckBeSerious]

Tonight I finished season 3 of the British "Sherlock" series with Benedict Cumberbatch. Really loved it! The format is also good, 3 episodes of 1h25 per season.

 

[HBDay]

Tonight I finished season 3 of the British "Sherlock" series with Benedict Cumberbatch. Really loved it! The format is also good, 3 episodes of 1h25 per season.

I watched the first season when I was in England. It was absolutley fantastic.