Let us Dream: Steven Stamkos to Toronto 2016/2017

[garce]

I understand the emotion but decisions based on emotion often aren't good decisions. Cost is a very important consideration in this cap era, writing Stamkos a blank cheque would be imprudent and we would be likely to regret it before long. Stamkos for 10m a year for 5 years is one thing. 12m a year, 7 years with a NTC is another thing. There is a huge difference between those 2 things!

I don't think I'm coming from a position of emotion, I think it's very practical and prudent to sign Stamkos if he wants to come home. Far from a blank cheque, as I said he's only coming if hes ignoring that he can maximize contract wise elsewhere. The side monetary benefits aside I believe he's only coming because he wants to play in Toronto for hometown reasons there fore I think there will be a slight hometown discount as he probably wants to win as well.I think he's a young top 10 talent, and can't figure out why people don't want him if he's free..

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't think I'm coming from a position of emotion, I think it's very practical and prudent to sign Stamkos if he wants to come home. Far from a blank cheque, as I said he's only coming if hes ignoring that he can maximize contract wise elsewhere. The side monetary benefits aside I believe he's only coming because he wants to play in Toronto for hometown reasons there fore I think there will be a slight hometown discount as he probably wants to win as well.I think he's a young top 10 talent, and can't figure out why people don't want him if he's free..

Interesting you use the word free ... cap room is a huge asset IMO.

Ok so no blank cheque, good. What kind of a contract would you be willing to give him?

 

[garce]

Interesting you use the word free ... cap room is a huge asset IMO.

Ok so no blank cheque, good. What kind of a contract would you be willing to give him?

Free as in not giving up any assets to acquire him but you knew that. Using Kane Toews contracts as my base I'd offer 70 over 7 and a sliding no trade provision.

 

[Stephen]

I understand the emotion but decisions based on emotion often aren't good decisions. Cost is a very important consideration in this cap era, writing Stamkos a blank cheque would be imprudent and we would be likely to regret it before long. Stamkos for 10m a year for 5 years is one thing. 12m a year, 7 years with a NTC is another thing. There is a huge difference between those 2 things!

I think you're coming at it from an emotional point of view: fear.

We have a ton of prospects and guys on ELCs until near the end of this decade. We have vets coming off the books and not a lot of players even worthy of big contracts, yet you're worried about busting the cap. The idea of a big time free agent signing here doesn't fit the narrative of the draft 'em rebuild. I get that. But the whole point of saving cap dollars is to do something truly special with it, not overpay slightly on mediocre free agents and hand out irresponsible raises to your RFAs.

 

[Stephen]

Interesting you use the word free ... cap room is a huge asset IMO.

Ok so no blank cheque, good. What kind of a contract would you be willing to give him?

Pay elite players big money, be responsible elsewhere and stop worrying.

Look at the way Burke managed the cap. He saved and saved and saved, and this past October we started the season with Lupul at $5.25 million and Clarkson at $5.25 million for a combined $10.5 million. Give me Stamkos that kind of money and go bring in a rookie on the NHL minimum and we are WAY AHEAD.

Cut out your Lupul, Clarkson, Grabovski, Komisarek, Blake, Finger style contracts, pay people who deserve it and enjoy the f'ing ride.

 

[Peace Frog]

If the Blackhawks can afford to pay two players $10M each and still ice a Stanley Cup team, I think we can afford one player at even $12M and ice a Stanley Cup caliber team, no??

 

[garce]

Pay elite players big money, be responsible elsewhere and stop worrying.

Look at the way Burke managed the cap. He saved and saved and saved, and this past October we started the season with Lupul at $5.25 million and Clarkson at $5.25 million for a combined $10.5 million. Give me Stamkos that kind of money and go bring in a rookie on the NHL minimum and we are WAY AHEAD.

Cut out your Lupul, Clarkson, Grabovski, Komisarek, Blake, Finger style contracts, pay people who deserve it and enjoy the f'ing ride.

For the next three years we have 9.3 wrapped up in Lupul and Gardiner and people wouldn't want to pay a 25 year old better than point a game player with 276 goals 10-12 mil without giving up any assets?

 

[Leafsforlife98]

I honestly think if Stamkos doesn't resign, He is coming to Toronto. And if he does, I think that will drastically speed up our rebuild. I think they sell off a bunch of guys and pick up alot of picks for the next 2 drafts, but keep most of the core of young guys. I think that is why they haven't moved Phaneuf yet. This could be a very quick turn around if they get Stamkos.

Hypothetically, if they did land him, and have a great draft and pick up Jacob Chychrun (which they probably can do since we will likely have a top 4 pick, plus multiple other picks to trade in order to move up just in case we end up with the 4th pick overall and he goes 2nd or 3rd.

if that happens, that could attract other big name free agents. Guys likely to test free agency Imo that I could see them target if they get Stamkos. Guys like Byfuglien, maybe Backes, Hamhuis, Lucic.

Not saying we will get any of those guys but we will have tons of room, and if we could pay Byfuglien let's say 7 to 8 we would still be fine for a few years due to so many players on Elc. Yea we would to worry about that in 3 to 5 years. By then some of the prospects won't pan out and they all (Nylander, Marner, Rielly, Chychrun, Kapanen) won't be getting the Taylor Hall 6 million in restricted free agency right away. The Leafs will probably do it like they did for Kadri, and just keep giving then bridge contacts until they get close to losing them in free agency.

And I know people will get mad cuz they don't want the rebuild to be be accelerated, cuz of Burke, but with Stamkos it will. But if we get him, we honestly are only 1 or 2 pieces away from being a serious contender.

? - Stamkos - Nylander
JVR - Kadri - Marner
Kapanen - Gauthier - C. Brown

Rielly - Byfuglien
Chychrun - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Percy

Could be real good in a year or 2

 

[Gary Nylund]

Free as in not giving up any assets to acquire him but you knew that. Using Kane Toews contracts as my base I'd offer 70 over 7 and a sliding no trade provision.

Ok so 10m a year. I'm glad to see you're not part of the crowd who would be willing to pay him anything he wants.

If the Blackhawks can afford to pay two players $10M each and still ice a Stanley Cup team, I think we can afford one player at even $12M and ice a Stanley Cup caliber team, no??

To be fair, Chicago hasn't won a cup with 10m contract yet as those contracts won't kick in until next year.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think you're coming at it from an emotional point of view: fear.

We have a ton of prospects and guys on ELCs until near the end of this decade. We have vets coming off the books and not a lot of players even worthy of big contracts, yet you're worried about busting the cap. The idea of a big time free agent signing here doesn't fit the narrative of the draft 'em rebuild. I get that. But the whole point of saving cap dollars is to do something truly special with it, not overpay slightly on mediocre free agents and hand out irresponsible raises to your RFAs.

Show me where I said we should hand out irresponsible raises to anyone. It's difficult to have a discussion with you when you keep manufacturing strawmen.

 

[EN4CER]

And again this whole thing is predicated on one thing and one thing only, does Stamkos want to come home? I've heard fourth hand that he does.
Having said that I fully expect him to resign in Tampa before training camp, taxes alone dictate that he can maximize his finances there.
But if and its a big if he's the kind of guy who wants to be a big fish in the biggest hockey pond there is, that's also his home town, I don't care what shape our depth chart is I sign him and build around him. Especially if it's as a free agent.

Do you remember when Stankos "liked" Lebron James' tweet about him coming home to play for the Cavs? That's when people started the chatter about him coming home to Toronto.

I sincerely think Stamkos is the type of athlete that wants to make a difference for his home team. He's for sure noticing that management is serious about culture change and making the Leafs a respectful organization.

Now 12 mil? No *** way. No player is worth that much cap space IMO. With that said, I'm very confident he's coming home for a discount and he knows all too well he will make more than enough in indorsements to cover that discount.

 

[garce]

Ok so 10m a year. I'm glad to see you're not part of the crowd who would be willing to pay him anything he wants.



To be fair, Chicago hasn't won a cup with 10m contract yet as those contracts won't kick in until next year.

I've been clear from the outset that I believe that Stamkos is likely resigning in TB. the only motivation for him to come home is glory, a hometown discount is the only way it works residual riches come with that but aren't guaranteed.
Not to quibble but Kane and Toews contracts are 10.5, again they seem to be able to manage. Tough cold hearted choices have to be made, valuable fan favourites have to be dispatched.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Do you remember when Stankos "liked" Lebron James' tweet about him coming home to play for the Cavs? That's when people started the chatter about him coming home to Toronto.

I sincerely think Stamkos is the type of athlete that wants to make a difference for his home team. He's for sure noticing that management is serious about culture change and making the Leafs a respectful organization.

Now 12 mil? No *** way. No player is worth that much cap space IMO. With that said, I'm very confident he's coming home for a discount and he knows all too well he will make more than enough in indorsements to cover that discount.

I've said all along that if Stamkos wants to come home then a home town discount makes sense (and yes he should make a killing with endorsments). If he wants to make the max the market will bear them the wanting to come home story is complete BS.

Maybe Crosby is worth a 12m cap hit but I agree Stamkos isn't. Especially with a team where his prime years might be spent playing golf during the playoffs. Some people seem to be so giddy with the idea of Stamkos coming home that they want to pay him more than he's worth when if the guy wants to come home then he should be willing to take less. Go figure.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I've been clear from the outset that I believe that Stamkos is likely resigning in TB. the only motivation for him to come home is glory, a hometown discount is the only way it works residual riches come with that but aren't guaranteed.
Not to quibble but Kane and Toews contracts are 10.5, again they seem to be able to manage. Tough cold hearted choices have to be made, valuable fan favourites have to be dispatched.

It remains to be seen how Chicago will do now that those contracts kick in. They're lucky they're paying Keith much less than he's worth, without that they'd be in real trouble. We'll see, perhaps this is the end of Chicago's run and a few years from now people will point to the Kane and Toews contracts as a cautionary tale.

 

[garce]

It remains to be seen how Chicago will do now that those contracts kick in. They're lucky they're paying Keith much less than he's worth, without that they'd be in real trouble. We'll see, perhaps this is the end of Chicago's run and a few years from now people will point to the Kane and Toews contracts as a cautionary tale.

Then they will point at their rings and say it was worth it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Then they will point at their rings and say it was worth it.

Sure, they're getting paid for past performance which is fine. If we win a cup with Marner leading the way, I'd be happy to overpay him (slightly) to keep him in the fold as well.

 

[garce]

Sure, they're getting paid for past performance which is fine.

And they are 26 and 27, one can be traded if they get crunched and deliver a mother lode in return.

 

[garce]

Sure, they're getting paid for past performance which is fine. If we win a cup with Marner leading the way, I'd be happy to overpay him (slightly) to keep him in the fold as well.

And if you win the Cup with Marner you might have to auction off Kapanen, or Nylander or Rielly etc. because you're not going to be able pay them all so you will want to have a certain number of contracts expiring every year. And a certain number of Rfa and ufa as well. Tough choices, but you pay the elites.

 

[Stephen]

Show me where I said we should hand out irresponsible raises to anyone. It's difficult to have a discussion with you when you keep manufacturing strawmen.

Who's using the straw man argument?

You're so chicken **** scared that we'll spend premium money on an elite player, but completely fail to outline where the money ought to be used.

In the past, the cap was squandered on giving out undeserved raises to pending UFAs (Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, Bozak, Grabovski), undeserved raises to RFAs (Gardiner) and to mediocre UFA signings (Komisarek, Blake, Finger, Clarkson).

Well, let's try something new and actually use the cap properly on elite talent for once.

 

[EN4CER]

I've said all along that if Stamkos wants to come home then a home town discount makes sense (and yes he should make a killing with endorsments). If he wants to make the max the market will bear them the wanting to come home story is complete BS.

Maybe Crosby is worth a 12m cap hit but I agree Stamkos isn't. Especially with a team where his prime years might be spent playing golf during the playoffs. Some people seem to be so giddy with the idea of Stamkos coming home that they want to pay him more than he's worth when if the guy wants to come home then he should be willing to take less. Go figure.

Great post Gary. That sums up how I feel exactly. You can bet Shanny and co. will be thinking the same way. I can understand how some fans are super desperate in this market that they are willing to write a blank cheque. I could see their point when we are giving dumb money to Lupul and Bozak/Kadri when we can just dump all that cap hit to Stammer and be better off...

 

[Stephen]

Then they will point at their rings and say it was worth it.

And they are 26 and 27, one can be traded if they get crunched and deliver a mother lode in return.

I've already outlined a rough cap structure at about $75 million where you can pay a guy over 10 million, and a handful in the 5-8 million range as part of a core. Seems completely doable.

 

[garce]

I've already outlined a rough cap structure at about $75 million where you can pay a guy over 10 million, and a handful in the 5-8 million range as part of a core. Seems completely doable.

Of course you can, you just can't have 2 or more huge mistakes long term. The Hawks aren't going to be screwed by the Kane/Toews deals by as much as the Hossa 5.2 that's unmovable. He's a great player who was instrumental in their cups but that's the one that'll kill them. Seabrooke is talking about signing at a discount and evidently Oduya wanted to but that's the culture of winning.

 

[Razz]

After all that has happened this summer, I no longer believe Stamkos coming to Toronto is a pipe dream. There is something interesting going on here that hasn't happened since the Gilmour, Clark era.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I wonder what happens to Kadri when Stammer signs,we'll need his cap space.

If Stamkos Signs who cares what happens to Kadri

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

Get a another superstar when we should rebuild this is so kessel deja vu again, granted without giving up anything and having much better prospects in the system but still leafs should take the losses 2 years plus and go from there if stamkos does wanna come here and takes a small discount I'm all for it but if we're paying the man 11 million count me out his defense is just as bad as kessels and he's a CENTRE, not to mention I believe he's not very good at faceoffs?
If marner or nylander pan out like they should stamkos could be on the 2nd line in 5 years getting paid a kings ransom
Not saying they will score as much as him but they're two way game will be infinitely better and probably better at faceoffs too