Player Discussion Leon Draisaitl - 2019 All-Star

[TopShelfGloveSide]

He’s 11th in league scoring. Like 7 points behind Mcdavid. This guy is the real deal.

 

[t0nedeff]

They must have been trolling? No one could actually think like that...

Then again flat earthers has become a thing so who knows

No, it most likely had to do with how he was producing on his own line but the goal line has shifted now because he's doing it on a line with Mcdavid.

 

[ToeMcDrag83]

He's doing very well this year, no complaints.
What's exciting is I think he has another level still and is not done developing.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He’s 11th in league scoring. Like 7 points behind Mcdavid. This guy is the real deal.

Important to mention Connor always has the best linemates as well. When Connor is away from Drai he has Nuge, When Drai is away from Connor he has no one of that calibre.

Also its only 6pts separation right now and McD has 30EV pts this season and Drai 27ots. Again considering the difference in linemates at EV it shouldn't be this close. Drai is almost on par.

 

[McShogun99]

Draisaitl is definitely worth the 8.5 million, especially considering what players are about to be making. At the time we signed him it probably could have been done for 7.5 if we played hardball with him. The problem when you do that is it can create a rift between the player and the team and we wouldn’t have got the 8 years.

 

[Duke74]

No, it most likely had to do with how he was producing on his own line but the goal line has shifted now because he's doing it on a line with Mcdavid.

You'll never say a single positive thing about him, will you?

First of all, prior to getting realigned with McDavid, Drai had 17 points in 17 games. That's PPG with the likes of Lucic, a declining vet, and Yamamoto, a rookie, on his line. Even McDavid struggled with those players on his line. So, yes, Drai was doing fine on his own line, especially after Lucic was moved from it. McLellan was slow as molasses to see that those two weren't a fit. I remember him doing quite well on a line with Reider and Chiasson.

Secondly, if you look at the top 10 in NHL scoring, every top-end player plays with another top-end player. Gaudreau with Monahan. Ovechkin with Backstrom. McKinnon with Rantanen. Marner with Tavares. The list goes on. Should we discount the points that every player gets with other elite producers? If so, nobody would have even hit double digits in points yet. But somehow a different logic applies to Draisaitl...

 

[StevenF1919]

Anyone else remember when Draisaitl wasn't going to hit 25 points at 5v5 on the year according to some?

I remember...

I stated that he wouldn't hit 25 points at 5v5 if he was forced to drive his own line. He was then put back with McDavid after achieving poor results. That's a pretty important distinction for you to leave out in your post.

 

[Yablo21]

I had zero complaints about drai last game. Thought he was one of the best players and showed tons of hustle.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

I stated that he wouldn't hit 25 points at 5v5 if he was forced to drive his own line. He was then put back with McDavid after achieving poor results. That's a pretty important distinction for you to leave out in your post.

DrAi iSnT wOrTh 8 MiLl bEcAuSe hE cAn OnLy gEt 90 pOinTs oN mCDaVids LiNe. *Eye roll*

 

[Drivesaitl]

I stated that he wouldn't hit 25 points at 5v5 if he was forced to drive his own line. He was then put back with McDavid after achieving poor results. That's a pretty important distinction for you to leave out in your post.

Actually, you were not accounting for ANY pts Drai had with McD even if it was through double shifting, or in OT. Which are more EV pts at least.

Of course on a very offensively limited team if you remove ALL pts anybody has with McD the totals go down. But Drai would be able to obtain 25pts without McD in anycase. Its only when he's dealing with absolute coolers like Yama or Lucic that not even McD can do much with that the production is limited.

The interesting thing is last night Drai setup 3 of the Oilers goals and only got assists out of two of them. A lot of the transition on this club that results in points often flows through Drai.

Finally, again, McD has only 3 more EV pts this season than Drai. This despite McD getting Nuge when he doesn't have Drai, and Drai not getting anybody that good when he is away from McD.

Any reasonable view would have it that negative focus on Drai this season should cease. One would think..

 

[Duke74]

I stated that he wouldn't hit 25 points at 5v5 if he was forced to drive his own line. He was then put back with McDavid after achieving poor results. That's a pretty important distinction for you to leave out in your post.

For the 1800000000000th time, no, he was not put back with McDavid because he was achieving poor results on his own line. Go back and look at the stats. He had 17 points in 17 games on a line WITHOUT McDavid. He was put back with McDavid because the ENTIRE TEAM was struggling to create offence, INCLUDING McDavid. This is not to suggest that McDavid needed Draisaitl, as another poster accused me of implying; this suggests that the team needed a shakeup on offense and so McLellan, desperate to save his job, reverted to a combination that he knew worked in the past.

But sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt your precious narrative that Draisaitl is nothing without McDavid. Go on.....

 

[StevenF1919]

DrAi iSnT wOrTh 8 MiLl bEcAuSe hE cAn OnLy gEt 90 pOinTs oN mCDaVids LiNe. *Eye roll*

When Draisaitl signed that contract the reasoning behind the huge number ($2M more than his comparables) was that he was a centre. When he plays C he gets heavily outscored and his production drops significantly. He's not worth $2M more than Pastrnak.

 

[Duke74]

When Draisaitl signed that contract the reasoning behind the huge number ($2M more than his comparables) was that he was a centre. When he plays C he gets heavily outscored and his production drops significantly. He's not worth $2M more than Pastrnak.

Who said that he had to play center to achieve that contract? Was this some narrative the media put forth or are you making assumptions? He gets more money than Pastrnak because Pastrnak signed for 6 years and Draisaitl signed for 8 years. That alone accounts for at least 1-1.5 million because Draisaitl is giving up UFA years.

 

[oXo Cube]

When Draisaitl signed that contract the reasoning behind the huge number ($2M more than his comparables) was that he was a centre. When he plays C he gets heavily outscored and his production drops significantly. He's not worth $2M more than Pastrnak.

Pastrnak would be making at least 1M more than he is if he had agreed to sign until 2025 like Draisaitl did.

Though it's cool that you've moved the goalposts for Leon's success again.

 

[Spawn]

I stated that he wouldn't hit 25 points at 5v5 if he was forced to drive his own line. He was then put back with McDavid after achieving poor results. That's a pretty important distinction for you to leave out in your post.

lololololololol

 

[StevenF1919]

Actually, you were not accounting for ANY pts Drai had with McD even if it was through double shifting, or in OT. Which are more EV pts at least.

Of course on a very offensively limited team if you remove ALL pts anybody has with McD the totals go down. But Drai would be able to obtain 25pts without McD in anycase. Its only when he's dealing with absolute coolers like Yama or Lucic that not even McD can do much with that the production is limited.

The interesting thing is last night Drai setup 3 of the Oilers goals and only got assists out of two of them. A lot of the transition on this club that results in points often flows through Drai.

Finally, again, McD has only 3 more EV pts this season than Drai. This despite McD getting Nuge when he doesn't have Drai, and Drai not getting anybody that good when he is away from McD.

Any reasonable view would have it that negative focus on Drai this season should cease. One would think..

I clearly stated 5v5, which does not include OT points. Draisaitl's rate of scoring without McDavid has been below 25 points per 82 games consistently throughout the last 3 years.

I've pretty consistently maintained that Draisaitl is a great (elite even) winger when playing on a line with a guy who can drive the play.

My qualms with Draisaitl is that he doesn't produce, doesn't drive shot attempts/possession, and gets heavily outscored when not stapled to elite play drivers like McDavid and Hall. These things are all objectively true.

For the 1800000000000th time, no, he was not put back with McDavid because he was achieving poor results on his own line. Go back and look at the stats. He had 17 points in 17 games on a line WITHOUT McDavid. He was put back with McDavid because the ENTIRE TEAM was struggling to create offence, INCLUDING McDavid. This is not to suggest that McDavid needed Draisaitl, as another poster accused me of implying; this suggests that the team needed a shakeup on offense and so McLellan, desperate to save his job, reverted to a combination that he knew worked in the past.

But sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt your precious narrative that Draisaitl is nothing without McDavid. Go on.....

I already debunked that 17 points in 17 games, not sure why people are still parroting that BS. In those first 17 games (from October 6th against the Devils to November 11th against the Avalanche) where he put up 17 points (8 of them 5v5), only 5 of those points were without McDavid on the ice.

It would be nice if more posters on this board actually put an effort in to validate their claims instead of mindlessly repeating things that are easy to verify.

Who said that he had to play center to achieve that contract? Was this some narrative the media put forth or are you making assumptions? He gets more money than Pastrnak because Pastrnak signed for 6 years and Draisaitl signed for 8 years. That alone accounts for at least 1-1.5 million because Draisaitl is giving up UFA years.

Pastrnak is also the better player, so even if his contract was $7.5M, Draisaitl is still overpaid.

Pastrnak would be making at least 1M more than he is if he had agreed to sign until 2025 like Draisaitl did.

Though it's cool that you've moved the goalposts for Leon's success again.

Moved the goalposts? I've been pretty consistent in saying that he should at minimum not get outshot and outscored while centring his own line. Still waiting on that.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

When Draisaitl signed that contract the reasoning behind the huge number ($2M more than his comparables) was that he was a centre. When he plays C he gets heavily outscored and his production drops significantly. He's not worth $2M more than Pastrnak.

Oh really? You are friends with PC or what? And really Pastrnak? He has a bargain contract that has nothing to do with Drai. He’s also not worth two million more than Mackinnon. He’s worth 1.5 more than nylander... I fail to see your comparing contracts point.

 

[StevenF1919]

Oh really? You are friends with PC or what? And really Pastrnak? He has a bargain contract that has nothing to do with Drai. He’s also not worth two million more than Mackinnon. He’s worth 1.5 more than nylander... I fail to see your comparing contracts point.

PC stated in his presser after Draisaitl signed that the justification for the contract was that he was a C.

Literally all of his comparables make less money. It's funny that everyone except for Oiler fans can see this.

 

[Jamin]

No, it most likely had to do with how he was producing on his own line but the goal line has shifted now because he's doing it on a line with Mcdavid.

But 25 even strength points with our anemic power play. People legit thought he would finish the year with 40 or less points?

He had a rough first week or two but was never that bad

 

[StevenF1919]

But 25 even strength points with our anemic power play. People legit thought he would finish the year with 40 or less points?

He had a rough first week or two but was never that bad

It's not a coincidence that his rough first two weeks coincided with him being our #2C.

 

[Jamin]

What a weird thread

 

[Drivesaitl]

I clearly stated 5v5, which does not include OT points. Draisaitl's rate of scoring without McDavid has been below 25 points per 82 games consistently throughout the last 3 years.

I've pretty consistently maintained that Draisaitl is a great (elite even) winger when playing on a line with a guy who can drive the play.

My qualms with Draisaitl is that he doesn't produce, doesn't drive shot attempts/possession, and gets heavily outscored when not stapled to elite play drivers like McDavid and Hall. These things are all objectively true.


.

Steven, I take it you don't follow Soccer at all. Possession is not always the be all end all. Some teams fairly exist, and make a living on the counter and some midfielders and defenders are very good at setting this up. Drai is that guy on the Oilers. So much of their offense flows through him. So much of the Oilers offense is transition related. Drai produces quick strick counters for fun. His passing is surgical. The AV's player on ice for the PASS the last game must have wanted to be sick. There is literally nothing you can do to defend a player than can make a pass THAT good. A 180ft cross ice saucer on Drai's backhand. Many are saying it was the best pass of the year. Drai is often the breakout on this team because we lack D than can do that.

What you have to consider, in fairness, is that this roster only contains 3 players, only 3, that can produce at a good level. As I mentioned Drai rarely ever plays with Nuge. So that when Drai is AWAY from McD he's also away from anybody that produces at a commensurate level.

Next, you have to take into account that this team lacks any true offensive D. Drai works exceedingly well with D trailers. If he had a guy like Burns or Doughty around once in awhile for sure he wouldn't need McD to run his own line.

Lastly, how often is McD required to run his own line without appreciable help in the form of say Drai or Nuge?

Drai did that more games last season than McD has been called upon to do in his career.

Throw stone cold guys like Lucic and Yama (at once) at McD and he would struggle as well. Even McD+Nuge struggled with Yama.

 

[oXo Cube]

What a weird thread

It's not a weird thread. It's a crusade by one poster who has a bone to pick and hasn't been interested in an honest conversation from the beginning.

 

[StevenF1919]

Steven, I take it you don't follow Soccer at all. Possession is not always the be all end all. Some teams fairly exist, and make a living on the counter and some midfielders and defenders are very good at setting this up. Drai is that guy on the Oilers. So much of their offense flows through him. So much of the Oilers offense is transition related. Drai produces quick strick counters for fun. His passing is surgical. The AV's player on ice for the PASS the last game must have wanted to be sick. There is literally nothing you can do to defend a player than can make a pass THAT good. A 180ft cross ice saucer on Drai's backhand. Many are saying it was the best pass of the year. Drai is often the breakout on this team because we lack D than can do that.

What you have to consider, in fairness, is that this roster only contains 3 players, only 3, that can produce at a good level. As I mentioned Drai rarely ever plays with Nuge. So that when Drai is AWAY from McD he's also away from anybody that produces at a commensurate level.

Next, you have to take into account that this team lacks any true offensive D. Drai works exceedingly well with D trailers. If he had a guy like Burns or Doughty around once in awhile for sure he wouldn't need McD to run his own line.

Lastly, how often is McD required to run his own line without appreciable help in the form of say Drai or Nuge?

Drai did that more games last season than McD has been called upon to do that in his career.

I watch 8-10 soccer games a week. Assuming you watch soccer, which it sounds like you do, you'd realize that tactical systems in soccer are vastly different to systems in hockey. In soccer you'll only get a few shots per game, whereas hockey is extremely reliant on shot volume and there's a strong correlation between shot volume and goals scored. Even ignoring all of that, there's a pretty strong correlation between possession and goals in soccer. The majority of the strong teams keep possession and press heavily to regain it after losing the ball. It's rare to see elite teams absorb pressure and launch quick counterattacks. The only big team that's doing that right now is Mourinho's United, and they're a disaster. I don't think the sports are comparable at all.

I don't dispute Draisaitl's skills. He's an elite winger. The problem is, he's getting paid like an elite #1C.

My criticism of Drai has always and only been about his play away from McDavid and Hall. A player of his calibre should not be getting heavily outscored, especially since McDavid's line gets most of the tough matchups.

McDavid's stats are still excellent away from Drai and RNH, but I don't think it's fair to compare the two since McDavid is head and shoulders above every other player in the world.

 

[Duke74]

It's not a coincidence that his rough first two weeks coincided with him being our #2C.

Right. And those are the two weeks he was stuck with Lucic, who destroys everybody's offense. Even your buddy Woodguy showed that without Lucic on his line, Draisaitl still put up decent fancy stats without McDavid. But you're choosing to ignore that.