Player Discussion Leon Draisaitl - 2019 All-Star

[TopShelfGloveSide]

PC stated in his presser after Draisaitl signed that the justification for the contract was that he was a C.

Literally all of his comparables make less money. It's funny that everyone except for Oiler fans can see this.

90 points justifies a 8.5 mill contract. Any player on a contract year does that this year and I guaranteed they get that from almost any team in the league. Your vendetta against Drai is hilarious.

 

[Duke74]

PC stated in his presser after Draisaitl signed that the justification for the contract was that he was a C.

Literally all of his comparables make less money. It's funny that everyone except for Oiler fans can see this.

And of course you ignore the guys that make MORE money and are BELOW Draisaitl in the points race: Kane, Toews, Getzlaf, Perry, Eichel (tie), Tavares, Kopitar, Stamkos, Malkin, Crosby, Voracek....

 

[Drivesaitl]

I watch 8-10 soccer games a week. Assuming you watch soccer, which it sounds like you do, you'd realize that tactical systems in soccer are vastly different to systems in hockey. In soccer you'll only get a few shots per game, whereas hockey is extremely reliant on shot volume and there's a strong correlation between shot volume and goals scored.

Steven, in your previous post you are expecting Drai to run a line where outscoring and outshooting and outchancing occurs on a team comprised of 3 legitimate topsix players. With Drai given ZERO of them any time he is not with McD. How reasonable is that expectation?

You KNOW this is a roster problem. You know this all day. So be honest in the discussion.

As far as shot volume this is a generic stat that pays no attention to the degree to which a player can surgically carve opponent D schemes. Which Drai does in his sleep. Which is the reason Drai is often double teamed when away from McD. Drai is dangerous always and opponents realize that. Even when it looks like nothing is on Drai sets up chances and goals.

 

[StevenF1919]

Right. And those are the two weeks he was stuck with Lucic, who destroys everybody's offense. Even your buddy Woodguy showed that without Lucic on his line, Draisaitl still put up decent fancy stats without McDavid. But you're choosing to ignore that.

Draisaitl still has a negative CF% and GF% without Lucic and McDavid.

90 points justifies a 8.5 mill contract. Any player on a contract year does that this year and I guaranteed they get that from almost any team in the league. Your vendetta against Drai is hilarious.

Lots of players are on pace to hit 90 this season. Only a handful make more money than Draisaitl.

 

[Jamin]

Right. And those are the two weeks he was stuck with Lucic, who destroys everybody's offense. Even your buddy Woodguy showed that without Lucic on his line, Draisaitl still put up decent fancy stats without McDavid. But you're choosing to ignore that.

Ive said it before because I think its a perfect metaphor. Mcdavid and Drai are stars. Lucic is a blackhole (for offence). Even the brightest star in the galaxy cant escape a black hole

 

[Duke74]

Draisaitl still has a negative CF% and GF% without Lucic and McDavid.

Lots of players are on pace to hit 90 this season. Only a handful make more money than Draisaitl.

Please see my post above (post 241) where I refute this statement.

 

[oXo Cube]

Draisaitl still has a negative CF% and GF% without Lucic and McDavid.

Not since the beginning of last season he doesn't.

But as usual you'll set the time frame as far back into irrelevancy as you have to to make the narrative work.

 

[StevenF1919]

And of course you ignore the guys that make MORE money and are BELOW Draisaitl in the points race: Kane, Toews, Getzlaf, Perry, Eichel (tie), Tavares, Kopitar, Stamkos, Malkin, Crosby, Voracek....

All of those players you listed outside of Toews, Perry, and Voracek put up massive numbers driving their own line. Outside of those 3 (and an aging, injury prone Getzlaf), you won't find any non-Oilers fans who would take Draisaitl over them.

Steven, in your previous post you are expecting Drai to run a line where outscoring and outshooting and outchancing occurs on a team comprised of 3 legitimate topsix players. With Drai given ZERO of them any time he is not with McD. How reasonable is that expectation?

You KNOW this is a roster problem. You know this all day. So be honest in the discussion.

As far as shot volume this is a generic stat that pays no attention to the degree to which a player can surgically carve opponent D schemes. Which Drai does in his sleep. Which is the reason Drai is often double teamed when away from McD. Drai is dangerous always and opponents realize that. Even when it looks like nothing is on Drai sets up chances and goals.

Elite players can put up numbers with anyone. Draisaitl's numbers away from McDavid aren't just worse (that would be expected), they're awful. RNH has better numbers away from McDavid and he's got the same shit wingers to play with.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Draisaitl still has a negative CF% and GF% without Lucic and McDavid.

Lots of players are on pace to hit 90 this season. Only a handful make more money than Draisaitl.

That’s BECAUSE most of them signed their contract way EARLIER. OH MY GOD. Like I said a new contract year comes up for all these players and they ALL will make 8.5 mill or more.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's not a weird thread. It's a crusade by one poster who has a bone to pick and hasn't been interested in an honest conversation from the beginning.

if it were only one poster on the board..

albeit I am thankful some of them don't take the apparent bias right into this thread.

Although its kind of funny that other players, even insignificant players, get "Player appreciation" designate threads and Drai gets a "discussion" thread that is not even pre-empted for the unwarranted criticism.

 

[Duke74]

All of those players you listed outside of Toews, Perry, and Voracek put up massive numbers driving their own line. Outside of those 3 (and an aging, injury prone Getzlaf), you won't find any non-Oilers fans who would take Draisaitl over them.

Elite players can put up numbers with anyone. Draisaitl's numbers away from McDavid aren't just worse (that would be expected), they're awful. RNH has better numbers away from McDavid and he's got the same **** wingers to play with.

Really? Look at the top 10 or even top 20 in NHL scoring. Virtually EVERY player has another elite linemate to "leech" points off of: Gaudreau and Monahan, Pastrnak and Marchand/Bergeron, Kucherov and Stamkos, Ovechkin and Backstrom, McKinnon and Rantanen, Marner and Tavares, Eichel and Skinner, Sheifele and Wheeler....I could go on all day. Take any of those players, put them with Lucic and Yamamoto or some bottom-line forward on their own team, and see their fancy stats plummet.

 

[Drivesaitl]

All of those players you listed outside of Toews, Perry, and Voracek put up massive numbers driving their own line. Outside of those 3 (and an aging, injury prone Getzlaf), you won't find any non-Oilers fans who would take Draisaitl over them.

Elite players can put up numbers with anyone. Draisaitl's numbers away from McDavid aren't just worse (that would be expected), they're awful. RNH has better numbers away from McDavid and he's got the same **** wingers to play with.

Well, Drai, and Nuge, 32games in both have an identical 16 games playing with McD and both play with him on the PP first unit as well.

So a bit odd perhaps given your context that Drai has 9more pts, and 6more goals than Nuge.

But I guess Nuge has better Corsi stats which are so important. So important that they cause you to completely not consider actual boxcar results.


In short you're saying that Nuge has done better, while Drai has better results.

Note to thread; YOU brought up the player comparison.

Finally, as I've oft stated, nobody but Crosby puts up appreciable pts playing with two scrubs. Nobody. Find top players that are doing that and please cite them specifically. Or stop speaking absolutes that do not occur.

 

[Duke74]

if it were only one poster on the board..

albeit I am thankful some of them don't take the apparent bias right into this thread.

Although its kind of funny that other players, even insignificant players, get "Player appreciation" designate threads and Drai gets a "discussion" thread that is not even pre-empted for the unwarranted criticism.

To Steven's credit, at least he engages in discussion and tries hard to back up his points. Other posters, when I call them out, completely ignore or disregard the obvious bias that I point out in their posts.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Mind blows me that Drai is on pace to be top ten this year in points and people still rag on him. He could finish 5th in points and people would still say “he’s just leeching off mcdavid”

 

[Drivesaitl]

To Steven's credit, at least he engages in discussion and tries hard to back up his points. Other posters, when I call them out, completely ignore or disregard the obvious bias that I point out in their posts.

What I like about Steven as well is that he does not stoop to being angry and insulting, like the vast majority of posters do when confronted. It may be frustrating at times but he keeps it civil. I want to point that out as well.

Steven also provides a service of negating a lot of Anti-Drai pts. That is useful here.

 

[48g90a138pts]

Draisaitl is good, worth the money, Oilers are winning... who's complaining? (Besides the officiating)

 

[Drivesaitl]

Mind blows me that Drai is on pace to be top ten this year in points and people still rag on him. He could finish 5th in points and people would still say “he’s just leeching off mcdavid”

Its funny you mention that. I was wondering what rate of production, or what production proximity to McD would be required for Drai criticism to slow down or cease. I think its possible even that Drai could approximate McD and still have his performance and contract flamed here. Its uncanny.

Drai is in 10th spot in NHL points tied with Ovechkin, As we are having these discussions.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Its funny you mention that. I was wondering what rate of production, or what production proximity to McD would be required for Drai criticism to slow down or cease. I think its possible even that Drai could approximate McD and still have his performance and contract flamed here. Its uncanny.

Drai is in 10th spot in NHL points tied with Ovechkin, As we are having these discussions.

He literally needs to have a 100 point season for people to stop crying

 

[Duke74]

He literally needs to have a 100 point season for people to stop crying

Sadly, I think even then people will still cry.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He literally needs to have a 100 point season for people to stop crying

But 50 of those pts will be lazy and 65 will be McD dependent..

 

[StevenF1919]

Well, Drai, and Nuge, 32games in both have an identical 16 games playing with McD and both play with him on the PP first unit as well.

So a bit odd perhaps given your context that Drai has 9more pts, and 6more goals than Nuge.

But I guess Nuge has better Corsi stats which are so important. So important that they cause you to completely not consider actual boxcar results.


In short you're saying that Nuge has done better, while Drai has better results.

Note to thread; YOU brought up the player comparison.

Finally, as I've oft stated, nobody but Crosby puts up appreciable pts playing with two scrubs. Nobody. Find top players that are doing that and please cite them specifically. Or stop speaking absolutes that do not occur.

I was referring to GF%, not production. And before anyone claims I'm doing so, I'm not saying that RNH is better than Drai (he's not, and it's not close).

I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation for him to not be outscored while driving his own line. It's obvious that he's insanely skilled offensively, but his defensive abilities are practically nonexistent. Id be curious to see him paired with a winger who drives possession but doesn't produce a ton (like Pouliot from a few years back). Barring a massive improvement in his defense, having someone who can really drive possession and generate offensive zone time would let Drai work his magic in the offensive zone without getting his teeth kicked in. Although his production away from McDavid isnt stellar, it's his GF% that's really a problem. If you can find an undervalued winger who generates a ton of possession, you might be able to fix the latter and boost the former. Unfortunately, this would require our GM to think outside the box to solve a problem that he probably isn't even aware exists.

This team desperately needs a second line that can outscore the opposition. Our bottom 3 lines basically start our team down 1-0 and it's up to the top line to make up the difference. We can't just load up the top line and hope that they score 2-3 goals a game.

Reider, Chiasson, and Pulju aren't scrubs. They're by no means elite but they're decent players.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

I was referring to GF%, not production. And before anyone claims I'm doing so, I'm not saying that RNH is better than Drai (he's not, and it's not close).

I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation for him to not be outscored while driving his own line. It's obvious that he's insanely skilled offensively, but his defensive abilities are practically nonexistent. Id be curious to see him paired with a winger who drives possession but doesn't produce a ton (like Pouliot from a few years back). Barring a massive improvement in his defense, having someone who can really drive possession and generate offensive zone time would let Drai work his magic in the offensive zone without getting his teeth kicked in. Although his production away from McDavid is worrying, it's his GF% that's really a problem. If you can find an undervalued winger who generates a ton of possession, you might be able to fix the latter and boost the former. Unfortunately, this would require our GM to think outside the box to solve a problem that he probably isn't even aware exists.

This team desperately needs a second line that can outscore the opposition. Our bottom 3 lines basically start our team down 1-0 and it's up to the top line to make up the difference. We can't just load up the top line and hope that they score 2-3 goals a game.

Reider, Chiasson, and Pulju aren't scrubs. They're by no means elite but they're decent players.

PJ literally has 3 points.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Merry Draisaitl!

Leon so far in December has 7GP 3G 8A 11pts.

An amazing 9 of those being EV pts.

The oddest thing being this is the production of the return of "Lazy and tired Drai" so often noted in the GDT's

So to answer an earlier question nothing, really, will erase the criticism. Drai is being soundly critiqued this month and its funny.

 

[StevenF1919]

Merry Draisaitl!

Leon so far in December has 7GP 3G 8A 11pts.

An amazing 9 of those being EV pts.

The oddest thing being this is the production of the return of "Lazy and tired Drai" so often noted in the GDT's

So to answer an earlier question nothing, really, will erase the criticism. Drai is being soundly critiqued this month and its funny.

The lazy critique is a result of him being big and an awkward skater. Same thing happened with Penner too. It's BS.

He does display a lack of intensity sometimes in his own end though.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I was referring to GF%, not production. And before anyone claims I'm doing so, I'm not saying that RNH is better than Drai (he's not, and it's not close).

I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation for him to not be outscored while driving his own line. It's obvious that he's insanely skilled offensively, but his defensive abilities are practically nonexistent. Id be curious to see him paired with a winger who drives possession but doesn't produce a ton (like Pouliot from a few years back). Barring a massive improvement in his defense, having someone who can really drive possession and generate offensive zone time would let Drai work his magic in the offensive zone without getting his teeth kicked in. Although his production away from McDavid isnt stellar, it's his GF% that's really a problem. If you can find an undervalued winger who generates a ton of possession, you might be able to fix the latter and boost the former. Unfortunately, this would require our GM to think outside the box to solve a problem that he probably isn't even aware exists.

This team desperately needs a second line that can outscore the opposition. Our bottom 3 lines basically start our team down 1-0 and it's up to the top line to make up the difference. We can't just load up the top line and hope that they score 2-3 goals a game.

Reider, Chiasson, and Pulju aren't scrubs. They're by no means elite but they're decent players.

But you can't disagree with anything I stated. I agree a contributing possession winger like Pouliot, Purcell, or Perron (any of triple P) would be interesting. All these were considered expendable, alas.

Of the 3 Drai has played with a lot away from McD Lucic doesn't score, doesn't produce. Rieder hasn't popped the goal virgin yet. Pulju has struggled to produce (albeit I feel he is playing better but Drai hasn't seen much of him in anycase. Chaisson is not a possession player, not even remotely. He's scoring in unsustainable outlier fashion, but not much for cycling.

I wouldn't even mind if Drai was getting guys like Rieder, Rattie, Caggs, Pulju on a regular basis now. But its not ideal support.

We have to hope that some of these players on the roster get there, but at this point Drai can't be blamed for them not being there.