Confirmed with Link: Legwand to Wings for Eaves, Jarnkrok and a cond. 3rd Part II

[Frk It]

New RWC article out regarding the Jarnkrok trade
Full article here: http://www.redwingscentral.com/2014/03/11/4493/moving-on-from-jarnkrok/

Some highlights:

The fact is, the Red Wings gave up a solid prospect who has potential to be a second-line NHL center in the mold of Valtteri Filppula. As general manager Ken Holland conceded to MLive.com, “I think he’s going to play in the NHL.â€

Before the trade, the Red Wings were hoping a good off-season in the gym might result in Jarnkrok having a breakout AHL year in 2014-15. But with so many centers in the organization — Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zettberberg, Stephen Weiss, Darren Helm, Joakim Andersson, Riley Sheahan, Luke Glendening and now Legwand — the Red Wings, when even remotely healthy, would have been a hard squad for Jarnkrok to crack. Sheahan’s emergence as a solid NHLer only exacerbated the issue.

The trade leaves the Red Wings with only two legitimate NHL prospects at the center position: speedy Landon Ferraro, a two-way player in Grand Rapids who has struggled offensively, and highly-skilled Swede Mattias Janmark. Expect them to invest in a few centers on draft day to lead the next generation.

 

[Frk It]

Also thought this little bit regarding Mantha was interesting too:

Regarding Mantha, Holland told TSN the big, skilled winger is “untouchable.†“We want to develop him into a Red Wing.â€

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

New RWC article out regarding the Jarnkrok trade
Full article here: http://www.redwingscentral.com/2014/03/11/4493/moving-on-from-jarnkrok/

Some highlights:

smh, he could easily supersede everyone on that list outside of the Euro twins. Terrible, terrible asset management.

 

[ricky0034]

smh, he could easily supersede everyone on that list outside of the Euro twins. Terrible, terrible asset management.

and even with those two I have my doubts that Datsyuk will ever have a full healthy season again

I mean....i'm not suggesting that he's done or anything dramatic like that,but I do think he's always gonna be missing games here and there with various nagging problems

 

[Peter Tosh]

smh, he could easily supersede everyone on that list outside of the Euro twins. Terrible, terrible asset management.

I agree. The possibility of re-signing Legwand shouldn't be an argument for dealing Järnkrok. Legwand could have been signed this summer anyway. Now, we're possibly giving up a future 2C for 20ish games of David Legwand. Holland couldn't even get Nashville to take Tootoo back as part of the deal.

Some years ago, I would have argued that Holland probably knows something we don't. After Samuelsson, Tootoo, Colaiacovo, Cleary and now this, I don't think so anymore.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

I agree. The possibility of re-signing Legwand shouldn't be an argument for dealing Järnkrok. Legwand could have been signed this summer anyway. Now, we're possibly giving up a future 2C for 20ish games of David Legwand. Holland couldn't even get Nashville to take Tootoo back as part of the deal.

Some years ago, I would have argued that Holland probably knows something we don't. After Samuelsson, Tootoo, Colaiacovo, Cleary and now this, I don't think so anymore.

They took Eaves back though. Neither were playing and have similar salaries. What's the difference?

 

[Peter Tosh]

They took Eaves back though. Neither were playing and have similar salaries. What's the difference?

Eaves is a pending UFA at 1.2. Tootoo is signed through 14-15 at 1.9 and an old Nashville fan favourite.

 

[BinCookin]

I agree. The possibility of re-signing Legwand shouldn't be an argument for dealing Järnkrok. Legwand could have been signed this summer anyway. Now, we're possibly giving up a future 2C for 20ish games of David Legwand. Holland couldn't even get Nashville to take Tootoo back as part of the deal.

Some years ago, I would have argued that Holland probably knows something we don't. After Samuelsson, Tootoo, Colaiacovo, Cleary and now this, I don't think so anymore.

I will really split on my opinion of the trade.

I think the key here is Sheahan. His "Numbers" from the AHL had me convinced he was toast. And would NEVER make the NHL. I called him flat out a bust, and that people should just stop mentioning his name. Man has he proved me wrong. He looks more than serviceable up here. Better than Andersson (who was our 3C).

Legwand who is 33 is still probably a good player until 36 likely?

If we have Datsyuk, Weiss, Legwand, Sheahan, Helm, Glendenning….

When does Jarnkrok make the team??

I mean a strong PPG season in 2014/2015 leaves him in Nyquist land.
Realistically we are running Dats (1C) : Weiss or Legwand (2C) : Sheahan or Helm (3C/4C) : Glendening (replaceable) Andersson (replaceable)

I think that Center mix is good for 3-4 years (Datsyuk).

This means They end up losing Jarnkrok to waivers or forced to trade him right before waivers (low return).


But in all truth. I think Jarnkrok is the type of prospect that could have helped us get that 4D man we need. Now if we need to make a trade (Pulks) is the necessary "Blue chipper" we would need to trade. Ferraro at this point is simply going to be waived, same with Almquist and Callahan.



I feel maybe we could have gotten Legwand for less. Who knows.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Eaves is a pending UFA at 1.2. Tootoo is signed through 14-15 at 1.9 and an old Nashville fan favourite.

Tootoo can just be compliance bought out after the season though.

 

[Bench]

Tootoo can just be compliance bought out after the season though.

I think it's also safe to say Nashville had no interest in taking him back. Fan favorite or not, Nashville is in total rebuild mode. Legwand is proof of that. He was their most productive player and face of the franchise.

 

[Frk It]

Cost is the whole problem with this trade.

Based on the other trades we saw, we essentially got ripped off.

It's like Holland was totally oblivious to what other teams were doing. We should not have had to give up out best center prospect for David Legwand. Period.

This trade reminds me a lot of the Forsberg-Erat trade.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

it was a terrible reactionary trade

when rebuilding teams trade promising val filppula level prospects at the deadline for decent veterans its what leads down the edmonton oilers road

even IF jarnkrok would not be able to crack our roster for the next # of years dosent mean you trade him away today for spare parts, at the very least we should have held onto the guy and let him develop and get better. He either would get so good so as to leapfrog everybody not named datsyuk and force his way into the lineup(and what a horrible thing that would be) or he only gets slightly better that he can be traded later for a position of long term need(a top 3 dman)

holland simply weakened a franchise with that trade and nothing else

 

[Frk It]

I think it's also safe to say Nashville had no interest in taking him back. Fan favorite or not, Nashville is in total rebuild mode. Legwand is proof of that. He was their most productive player and face of the franchise.

Pretty sure Shea Weber is the face of that franchise, and has been for a little while now.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Cost is the whole problem with this trade.

Based on the other trades we saw, we essentially got ripped off.

It's like Holland was totally oblivious to what other teams were doing. We should not have had to give up out best center prospect for David Legwand. Period.

This trade reminds me a lot of the Forsberg-Erat trade.

It only reminds you of that trade because you "feel" that Jarnkrok could be a productive player, even though I think Legwand in his few games has been better than what I have seen of Erat all season.

Let the results speak for themselves, because Jarnkrok still has a ways to go before we even know what his true value is.

 

[Heaton]

Cost is the whole problem with this trade.

Based on the other trades we saw, we essentially got ripped off.

It's like Holland was totally oblivious to what other teams were doing. We should not have had to give up out best center prospect for David Legwand. Period.

This trade reminds me a lot of the Forsberg-Erat trade.

Perceived cost, really. Many times trades look horrible until a few years later.

 

[Frk It]

Perceived cost, really. Many times trades look horrible until a few years later.

Absolutely true.

And sometimes they look worse over time.

Time will tell.

 

[Heaton]

Absolutely true.

And sometimes they look worse over time.

Time will tell.

I'll always point to the Bertuzzi deal where we traded Shawn Matthias, people were talking about shawn Matthias like he was going to be the next big thing, I remember a poster who shall not be named thought he was like trading a young power forward who the team desperately needed. He had a TON of hype around him at the time too. Maybe Jarnkrok is better, but until he is, I'm not going to worry about it.

 

[Bench]

Pretty sure Shea Weber is the face of that franchise, and has been for a little while now.

Eh. You're splitting hairs on that one. Legwand was the first Pred ever drafted. He was their Mike Modano, for lack of a better comparison.

The main point is they are clearly moving on and sentimental ties aren't a factor, not who is the perceived face of the franchise.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I'll always point to the Bertuzzi deal where we traded Shawn Matthias, people were talking about shawn Matthias like he was going to be the next big thing, I remember a poster who shall not be named thought he was like trading a young power forward who the team desperately needed. He had a TON of hype around him at the time too. Maybe Jarnkrok is better, but until he is, I'm not going to worry about it.

I dunno, that was a pretty lousy trade too. He might have developed better in Detroit than in Florida too. I mean, look at how poorly Kulikov and Gudbranson have been developing, until Tallon came in, Florida was awful at developing prospects.

This all said, Weiss might not pan out, Legwand is going to be 34 soon, it absolutely stands to reason that Jarnkrok could have been our best center outside of Pavs and Hank, soonish. This is a team that needs to get younger, not older. People point to Sheahan, but he had very average AHL numbers himself, and has been producing better in the AHL. Jurco's first half of the season in the AHL was comparable to Jarnkrok's first half a season, and look where he is now. This is a terrible trade and terrible asset management no matter how you slice it. This all said, 1-3 years from now might not prove a thing, Nashville is absolutely terrible at developing forwards into top 6 roles.

Eh. You're splitting hairs on that one. Legwand was the first Pred ever drafted. He was their Mike Modano, for lack of a better comparison.

The main point is they are clearly moving on and sentimental ties aren't a factor, not who is the perceived face of the franchise.

I dunno, Weber's the captain, the owner sucked it up and matched a very expensive offer sheet on him, they opted not to re-sign Legwand. I mean, I think Weber's pretty distinctly the face of the franchise. They've been building around him and Rinne, distinctly, for several years now. It's not like Rusty Klesla was the face of the CBJ organization just because he was their first pick ever.

 

[Bench]

I dunno, Weber's the captain, the owner sucked it up and matched a very expensive offer sheet on him, they opted not to re-sign Legwand. I mean, I think Weber's pretty distinctly the face of the franchise. They've been building around him and Rinne, distinctly, for several years now. It's not like Rusty Klesla was the face of the CBJ organization just because he was their first pick ever.

Modano wasn't the captain (in fact he had it stripped of him) or highest paid when he left the Stars either...

Legwand has the most games, points, assists and goals in Preds franchise history. That's mainly what I'm driving at here. He's been their guy and they were moving on from him, so subsequently, why the hell would they bring back Tootoo if they were moving on from a far superior player in every single regard.

This was all about that one statement about trading Tootoo back, not Legwand's place in Nashville history.

 

[Winger98]

I'll always point to the Bertuzzi deal where we traded Shawn Matthias, people were talking about shawn Matthias like he was going to be the next big thing, I remember a poster who shall not be named thought he was like trading a young power forward who the team desperately needed. He had a TON of hype around him at the time too. Maybe Jarnkrok is better, but until he is, I'm not going to worry about it.

But even the perceived value we gave up was more than the perceived value I saw in most other trades. Maybe we had to add to get them to take a contract back, I don't know, but we did seem to overpay.

It also makes me wonder if teams either demand more from us (again, going back to the rumored offer for JBo being turned down) or if our prospects are viewed worse than how we view them.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Well I think it is hard to compare apples and oranges, here. Was Legwand even being shopped?

 

[Vladdy84]

I like how in that quote from Holland at the top of the page they refer to Lando as a speedy 2-way NHL Center Prospect that struggles offensively. So why hasn't he been called up? Stone Hands Luke and Joker are much slower and have zero offensive capability.

 

[Winger98]

I like how in that quote from Holland at the top of the page they refer to Lando as a speedy 2-way NHL Center Prospect that struggles offensively. So why hasn't he been called up? Stone Hands Luke and Joker are much slower and have zero offensive capability.

I'd like him up, too. Wonder if they view him as just not as ready as Emmerton, or if they don't see enough of a difference to offset Emmerton's added experience (which, like it or not, matters a bit more with the guys we have out). The injury situation is so ridiculous at this point.

 

[Winger98]

Well I think it is hard to compare apples and oranges, here. Was Legwand even being shopped?

From what I remember of quotes from Poile, Holland had called a few days before about Legwand and the Predators weren't moving him at the time. Holland said to get back to him if it changed. Around noon on trade day, I think Poile called Holland to say Legwand might be available. Then the trade just got rolling from there.

I don't think Holland had to exactly pry Legwand from Poile's cold, dead hands, but the guy wasn't being actively shopped, either.