Sub Crosby in for Toews... and the Blackhawks certainly still win those cups.
Sub Toews in for Crosby... I'm not so sure the Penguins win both cups.
Not to take anything from Toews... he's a hell of a player and he had a huge huge role in those cup wins.
Crosby ? MEH.
The Pens got lucky and won a cup in 2009.
Then Kessel came and they can't stop winning.
Fact.
Well, IF he's called a Top-5 player of all-time, then he IS (or WOULD BE) overrated.
I don't see Crosby as being generally overrated by people who are somewhat knowledgeable.
Well duh, how many cups does Lemieux have? How many does Toews have? Both were 1C in their respective teams, Lemieux just couldn't get it done more than two times. Easily Toews > Lemieux
Beliveau and Richard played in a very low scoring era. Sakic's and Forsberg's primes fell on the DPE.Well im pretty sure he's either in the top 5 or damn near it for overall points per game while playing in one of the most offensive depressing eras in NHL history.
Thats a pretty convincing case to be in the conversation at least.
Beliveau and Richard played in a very low scoring era. Sakic's and Forsberg's primes fell on the DPE.
No kidding Lebrun you think? When was Crosby not better than Toews. In fact... when was Crosby never anything but the best in the world. Things like this is why Toews gets such a bad rap here.
Crosby is too 5 all time. And In before the nostalgia old person bias where they can't comprehend that Yzerman and Frederic weren't "way better" than Crosby. He's top 5 and there's no argument
Crosby surpassed Yzerman and Sakic a long time ago.. I believe he is about to pass Messier too.
As for Toews well.. he isn't even in the top 2 of Blackhawks of this era..
Crosby has messier in his rear view easily at this point . The only players clearly ahead of crosby at this point are lemieux, gretzky, Orr and howe.
Crosby has messier in his rear view easily at this point . The only players clearly ahead of crosby at this point are lemieux, gretzky, Orr and howe.
Pretty sure Lebrun was talking about their accomplishments, not who is (finger quotes) "better" than the other.
Toews captained his team to 3 cups. That's the biggest accomplishment for any active player. Captaining a team to 3 cups, with two of them being back-to-back, is a bigger accomplishment.
Thus, Crosby would surpass Toews if he wins this cup.
Why is complaining everyone's default setting? Lebrun is right.
"If Ron Hainsey wins a Cup, he'll finally surpass Phil Housley.""If Subban wins a cup, he'll finally surpass Trevor Daley"
"If Ron Hainsey wins a Cup, he'll finally surpass Phil Housley."
There's no rational argument to say Crosby has had a greater career so far than Jagr, Bourque, Harvey, Béliveau, Hasek, Richard, Roy and many others. Crosby played at a prime-Jagr level between 2010 and 2013, but was injured for more than half of that time, so we will never know if he could sustain it. In the preceding season and the following season, he had 100-110 pts. That's really good, but no where near top 5 all-time.