News Article: Lebreton...Interesting...NCC - PART 2

[Sun God Nika]

Isn't the soil already remediated?

no clue tbh.

 

[JD1]

Honestly I don't really care about the politics behind it, a downtown arena just makes sense and it needs to get done. I will happily pay tax dollars if it comes to it.

This isn't just the Sens. I went to MTL for Drake last night and Toronto for the Weeknd like 6 months ago. I am tired of having to travel to see my favourite artists, selfishly. It's not like these guys are actively dodging Ottawa if they already have MTL and T.dot pencilled into their tours. Its because the arena is so far from civilization its hard to match the energy of other locations.

People travel domestically and internationally to these types of events and spend a lot of money.I don't see how the city wont make the funds they spend on this project back in tax revenues over time.

It is also about being a respectable major city. Such a clown show compared to Calgary, MTL, and Toronto where I can go and do anything after a game instead of being stuck in a f***ing parking lot. I don't know the situations in Winnipeg, Van, and Edmonton (never been to their arena) .

Do you think more big name acts come to Ottawa because of a downtown arena? Or more fans go to a big name show because of a downtown arena?

I'm happy to see the rink built downtown but I don't think it makes one but of difference in the bookings

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

no clue tbh.

The existing and surrounding area is a brownfield site which contains contaminated soils, including a former municipal landfill. As part of the pathway construction, soils will be replaced in the slow zone to remediate that area. Remediation of the remaining soils will be undertaken when the area is developed to its ultimate use, with new parks and public realm surrounding the pathways. Until that time, fencing and landscaping will be used to keep people on the pathway.

https://ncc-website-2.s3.amazonaws.com/documents/Consultation-Report_LeBreton-Pathway_EN-Final.pdf

contracts were for only assessment

A number of firms were awarded contracts of $833,333 for providing contaminated site assessment services. The firms were DST Consulting Engineers Inc., Geofirma Engineering Ltd., GHD Ltd., Golder Associates Ltd., SNC-Lavelin Inc., and Terrapex Environmental Ltd.

 

[Micklebot]

Do you think more big name acts come to Ottawa because of a downtown arena? Or more fans go to a big name show because of a downtown arena?

I'm happy to see the rink built downtown but I don't think it makes one but of difference in the bookings

I believe that back in the early 2000's it was a factor, but the industry has changed the way it works since ticket master and Livenation merged back in 2010, and I no longer work with folks in the industry so I can't speak to the impact it's had.

In the end, in todays environment, it may be a chicken or the egg argument, as more fans showing up means bigger bands will want to come, and bigger bands coming will lead to more fans going to concerts.

I think @Silky Johnson might have some insight on the matter,

 

[GCK]

Do you think more big name acts come to Ottawa because of a downtown arena? Or more fans go to a big name show because of a downtown arena?

I'm happy to see the rink built downtown but I don't think it makes one but of difference in the bookings

When Melnyk listed the “partners” included in the new building project LiveNation was on the list. That would be key in getting the larger acts here. It would likely be a lot of midweek shows in between Toronto and Montreal shows.

 

[JD1]

When Melnyk listed the “partners” included in the new building project LiveNation was on the list. That would be key in getting the larger acts here. It would likely be a lot of midweek shows in between Toronto and Montreal shows.

There's a lot that's been written about the economics of touring in Canada, particularly recently. Maybe I'm off base but we've already got an 18000 seat arena. I'm not sure how having one in a different location changes the evonomics

 

[Big Muddy]

As an aside, I know some people in central NYS that go to concerts at the CTC i.e., Pearl Jam. Not sure how relevant that is or how many, but I found it interesting that at least some people just south of the border think that a trip to Ottawa/Kanata to catch a concert is worthwhile.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

The vast majority of Ottawa citizens don't go to sens games. I love the sens but do not want my taxes going to giving them somewhere to play. I could care less about concerts. I've seen the ones I've wanted and now I'm old and care more about not wasting money on things that don't add any value to my life.

The vast majority of Ottawa citizens are not 67s or Redblack fans, yet our taxes in part helped revitalize Landsdown park, and the 67s will soon have a new arena with help from the tax payer.

There lots of things in Ottawa that our tax dollars go towards that I and others don’t support… I could choose to relocate to somewhere outside the boundaries of City, to not have my taxes go towards all these things I don’t want.

 

[Silky Johnson]

I believe that back in the early 2000's it was a factor, but the industry has changed the way it works since ticket master and Livenation merged back in 2010, and I no longer work with folks in the industry so I can't speak to the impact it's had.

In the end, in todays environment, it may be a chicken or the egg argument, as more fans showing up means bigger bands will want to come, and bigger bands coming will lead to more fans going to concerts.

I think @Silky Johnson might have some insight on the matter,

To be fair I haven't worked in the industry in a while. I still do some business with LN still and an somewhat up to date.

A good downtown venue definitely would draw more people. If you can get 5-8k pax downtown whereas you would only get 3-5k pax that would open the viability of alot of shows.

The big thing is that Ottawa has good geography. You can do an overnight from NYC, Boston, Montreal and Toronto. When a promoter like Live Nation buys out a tour, they would rather fill each night with shows rather than long drives.

Arena shows typically are in and out the same day with maybe a pre-rig advance. If they break even is 4k pax and they think they can get 6k in Ottawa then why not stop, particularly on non-prime nights between larger cities.

This is not the same for Calgary, Edmonton and Winnipeg.

I could see a proper sized downtown arena being viable for alot more acts.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Imagine a downtown/Lebreton Arena, that depends heavily on the LRT to get people to and from games/events…. And this unreliable LRT system has to be shut down during the season… might influence where the new ownership group decides to build a new Arena

 

[JD1]

Imagine a downtown/Lebreton Arena, that depends heavily on the LRT to get people to and from games/events…. And this unreliable LRT system has to be shut down during the season… might influence where the new ownership group decides to build a new Arena

Who knew that trains not being able to handle being full was a thing?

 

[NyQuil]

Who knew that trains not being able to handle being full was a thing?

"The train works fine. You never said ANYTHING about carrying passengers. Or operating in the winter. Or operating in the summer."

 

[JD1]

"The train works fine. You never said ANYTHING about carrying passengers. Or operating in the winter. Or operating in the summer."

It's really beyond comical at this point. Good on Ford for saying no money for 3 until 1&2 work.

I read the other day that the train wheels and the train rails aren't the same size. That's funny.

I expect at the end of the day that they'll end up with new rail cars and in court with Alstrom.

 

[BankStreetParade]

It's really beyond comical at this point. Good on Ford for saying no money for 3 until 1&2 work.

I read the other day that the train wheels and the train rails aren't the same size. That's funny.

I expect at the end of the day that they'll end up with new rail cars and in court with Alstrom.

Will be interesting to see what they do for the Metrolinx line they've been building for ages now. I think they ordered the same cars to service that line so who knows what DoFo decides to do there. Already over budget and overdue, can't see how they can afford such unreliable cars on the tracks.

 

[Ice-Tray]

What a boondoggle…… like perfect dictionary example….. And it keeps getting more doggleish…. Or boonish….

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I’ve posted this before….. but many times, in 2007 and 2008, before LRT was approved, former Regional Chair Andy Hayden warned us of going down the LRT path. He was in favour of a tunnel through the downtown core, but he said we should just expanded the fully functional Bus Rapid Transit system and run Busses through the tunnel…. And it would have cost 1/4 of what phase one was budgeted for.

Former regional chair slams Ottawa's new transit plan

The architect of Ottawa's Transitway system says the capital's new plan for transit is "pathetic" and a waste of taxpayer money.

ottawa.ctvnews.ca

 

[Flamingo]

What a boondoggle…… like perfect dictionary example….. And it keeps getting more doggleish…. Or boonish….

Boon/doggle depends what side of the trough you're standing on.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

 

[Ice-Tray]

Boon/doggle depends what side of the trough you're standing on.

Apparently it used to be a more playful term referring to little side projects you would give a kid to do to practice a learned skill. A boy scout making a lanyard of practiced knots….

Not so playful when it’s an LRT system costing billions….

 

[Stylizer1]

I’ve posted this before….. but many times, in 2007 and 2008, before LRT was approved, former Regional Chair Andy Hayden warned us of going down the LRT path. He was in favour of a tunnel through the downtown core, but he said we should just expanded the fully functional Bus Rapid Transit system and run Busses through the tunnel…. And it would have cost 1/4 of what phase one was budgeted for.

Former regional chair slams Ottawa's new transit plan

The architect of Ottawa's Transitway system says the capital's new plan for transit is "pathetic" and a waste of taxpayer money.

ottawa.ctvnews.ca

I shared those exact same sentiments. The flexibility of having buses would eleviate almost any worry about the system crashing.

The type of LRT system we are building has the exact same problems in relation to weather as other cities who share the same climate. It's going to get worse.

 

[aragorn]

I shared those exact same sentiments. The flexibility of having buses would eleviate almost any worry about the system crashing.

The type of LRT system we are building has the exact same problems in relation to weather as other cities who share the same climate. It's going to get worse.

How many electric buses could they have bought for that same money & reduced the polution from diesel buses?

 

[Micklebot]

How many electric buses could they have bought for that same money & reduced the polution from diesel buses?

Assuming a functional system (so not our situation) LRT typically wins out on cost over the long run. If all you care about is the upfront cost, tunnels for buses make sense. It's over 30 years where LRT is supposed to get the return on investment, again, key word here is supposed to...

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Assuming a functional system (so not our situation) LRT typically wins out on cost over the long run. If all you care about is the upfront cost, tunnels for buses make sense. It's over 30 years where LRT is supposed to get the return on investment, again, key word here is supposed to...

Ottawa's bungled LRT highlights a deeper Canadian trend: We suck at building things - The Hub

Ottawa’s LRT is one of the 999 in 1000 projects that fail because it didn’t come in on time, on budget, or with the intended benefits. Moreover, it followed the trajectory of public transit projects across Canada.

thehub.ca

 

[Micklebot]

Ottawa's bungled LRT highlights a deeper Canadian trend: We suck at building things - The Hub

Ottawa’s LRT is one of the 999 in 1000 projects that fail because it didn’t come in on time, on budget, or with the intended benefits. Moreover, it followed the trajectory of public transit projects across Canada.

thehub.ca

This is a bit of a different issue, no doubt that projects often go over budget, and can fail to live up to all the promises, but cost to operated an LRT is a known entity given the number of them around. Same with bus options. LRT once built (assuming you get a functional one...) should save money over the long run, even when accounting for cost overuns on the initial cost to build.

No denying the management of the LRT project was an abject failure, I'm not convinced had we gone with Tunnels for buses that we wouldn't have found a way to screw that up too though.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

This is a bit of a different issue, no doubt that projects often go over budget, and can fail to live up to all the promises, but cost to operated an LRT is a known entity given the number of them around. Same with bus options. LRT once built (assuming you get a functional one...) should save money over the long run, even when accounting for cost overuns on the initial cost to build.

No denying the management of the LRT project was an abject failure, I'm not convinced had we gone with Tunnels for buses that we wouldn't have found a way to screw that up too though.

Yeah... agreed, buses are archaic.