Post-Game Talk: Leafs win 5-2

[Wafflewhipper]

Thing with Marner is he pegged his value to his production in negotiating on the notion that he’s as good as Matthews. But in early season play you can clearly see that he can produce a high volume of points and look good statistically while doing nothing on the ice. So the problem is we’re paying for a stats line that may have no bearing on team success.

As it stands, he’s put an unbelievable amount of pressure on himself but if you want to be significantly richer than Kane and Kucherov, you better bring a lot to each game and not look like a junior player out there. It’s crazy that in the four years he’s been in the NHL he hasn’t improved his physical strength or center of gravity while guys like Moore and Timashov are small guys who add lots of sandpaper to create more value.

Really! Well what a disappointing post that is if this is a common view. It can only be based on his poor start in these six games. He’s not been good but over the last season and half previous has been a workhorse.

Not fair. Just not. Haha no worries because likely the first bad post i ever seen from you.

 

[egd27]

Why are we paying Babcock more than any other coach in NHL history?

Its literally his job to get the players to play as he wants.

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink

Dubas will find a nice player friendly coach soon enough and we can get back to the country club atmosphere that Toronto is known for.

And we can rejoice for a season or two until the next guy can’t win them for some odd reason.

 

[mallory67]

Exactly. Marner is a better player than Willie but he is not a 3.9mil better. The fact that Marner is literally playing like crap(not just points but the way he is skating and engaging the plays) is a huge concern.

Can we stop complaining about Marner's contract already?
Everyone agrees Dubas overpaid ... but not by much. Maybe $1M or $1.5M too much?? Right?
If we had signed Marner for $9.4M I know people would be calling Dubas a genius.

But does it all really matter with an $80M cap?
We overpaid ALL our guys by what? $3M total? Of an $80M cap?

Lets assume we got Matthews at $10M, Nylander at $6.5 and Marner at $9.5M. Thats about 3.3M less than what we paid.
He got rid of Marleau's $5M and made a bunch of good moves and got rid of Brown, Gardiner, Kadri and Sparks to boot.

Can we get over the $3.3M overpayment? I would rather overpay our young stars than have Dubas do one bad contract.
Montreal has a $3.3M overpayment for Price alone (considering when it was signed).

 

[mallory67]

Can we stop complaining about Marner's contract already?
Everyone agrees Dubas overpaid ... but not by much. Maybe $1M or $1.5M too much?? Right?
If we had signed Marner for $9.4M I know people would be calling Dubas a genius.

But does it all really matter with an $80M cap?
We overpaid ALL our guys by what? $3M total? Of an $80M cap?

Lets assume we got Matthews at $10M, Nylander at $6.5 and Marner at $9.5M. Thats about 3.3M less than what we paid.
He got rid of Marleau's $5M and made a bunch of good moves and got rid of Brown, Gardiner, Kadri and Sparks to boot.

Can we get over the $3.3M overpayment? I would rather overpay our young stars than have Dubas do one bad contract.
Montreal has a $3.3M overpayment for Price alone (considering when it was signed).

Backes in Boston makes $6M and had 20 points last year.

 

[hockeyes]

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink

Dubas will find a nice player friendly coach soon enough and we can get back to the country club atmosphere that Toronto is known for.

And we can rejoice for a season or two until the next guy can’t win them for some odd reason.

You might be confusing what Babcock says vs what he does. He talks a big game and says all the right things but in practice not much is visible. Instead of going back to the country club, they could always just get a coach who lets their actions speak for them.

 

[biotk]

Can we stop complaining about Marner's contract already?
Everyone agrees Dubas overpaid ... but not by much. Maybe $1M or $1.5M too much?? Right?

Marner was dramatically overpaid. He is worth about 3M less per season than Matthews and Matthews was overpaid. People are starting to see it. This will probably be the worst contract in the league this year.

 

[biotk]

WHAT???

2 even strength points and -4 in 6 games


is bloody pathetic for a 11 million dollar player.

and yes, same goes for JT.

Yup.

 

[thewave]

Can we stop complaining about Marner's contract already?
Everyone agrees Dubas overpaid ... but not by much. Maybe $1M or $1.5M too much?? Right?
If we had signed Marner for $9.4M I know people would be calling Dubas a genius.

But does it all really matter with an $80M cap?
We overpaid ALL our guys by what? $3M total? Of an $80M cap?

Lets assume we got Matthews at $10M, Nylander at $6.5 and Marner at $9.5M. Thats about 3.3M less than what we paid.
He got rid of Marleau's $5M and made a bunch of good moves and got rid of Brown, Gardiner, Kadri and Sparks to boot.

Can we get over the $3.3M overpayment? I would rather overpay our young stars than have Dubas do one bad contract.
Montreal has a $3.3M overpayment for Price alone (considering when it was signed).

That would be fine but it's more like...

Matthews 9.5m @ 5y
Nylander 6.5m @ 6y
Marner 8.5m @ 6y

That's about... ohh... 24.5 call it 25m for the 3 vs. 30m or about 5M in overpays and Jake Gardiner signed for 4m for 4 years. He is a really good defender.

I understand the want and need to trivialize this situation but it's going to keep carrying on with the D that want contracts. Do you really think they want to be paid like chumps looking at this? How about the tender? I mean, why would you? lol. Just hold out and tell them you want more.

 

[Hustlr]

That would be fine but it's more like...

Matthews 9.5m @ 5y
Nylander 6.5m @ 6y
Marner 8.5m @ 6y

That's about... ohh... 24.5 call it 25m for the 3 vs. 30m or about 5M in overpays and Jake Gardiner signed for 4m for 4 years. He is a really good defender.

If they’re all overpaid, why not add JT? I don’t think Matthews is overpaid at all. You’re arguing ~500k for Nylander? Marner is clearly the problem in my eyes.

 

[MJ65]

I am not sure how you guys feel, I know it's still early but I am not really impressed the way this team has played so ever. Even the games that we won, we were not really impressive in those guys and the games against TB and Canadiens we were pathetic

- Freddie again has been pretty bad so far
- Both Kappy and Johnsson look out of sync and at times lost
- JT look pretty ordinary at this stage
- Marner / Matthews are on and off and are not great (consistent) thus far
- Rielly is not really having a good time on the ice (not sure if it's his defensive partner)
- We still need another defense man to play every night (hopefully Dremott is back sooner then later)

The good thing is they are all going to improve as the season progress. Our 3rd line has played exceptionally well and 4th line has been pretty consistent and has also chipped in offensively. I am not worried about our offense, as we have enough weapons for the opponents to completely shut us down (even in the playoffs), 2nd PP unit some shake up or we need to come up with a better strategy. What we really lack is defensive coverage in our own end and need to tighten up as a unit (forwards helping our defense), We also lack in toughness department, we really do not need any goons but as a team we should stand for each other, opponents should not be allowed liberties

 

[thewave]

If they’re all overpaid, why not add JT? I don’t think Matthews is overpaid at all. You’re arguing ~500k for Nylander? Marner is clearly the problem in my eyes.

Nylander is a non issue comparatively. Absolutely trivial compared to Marner, yes. Even Matthews is too rich.

 

[Hustlr]

I am not sure how you guys feel, I know it's still early but I am not really impressed the way this team has played so ever. Even the games that we won, we were not really impressive in those guys and the games against TB and Canadiens we were pathetic

- Freddie again has been pretty bad so far
- Both Kappy and Johnsson look out of sync and at times lost
- JT look pretty ordinary at this stage
- Marner / Matthews are on and off and are not great (consistent) thus far
- Rielly is not really having a good time on the ice (not sure if it's his defensive partner)
- We still need another defense man to play every night (hopefully Dremott is back sooner then later)

The good thing is they are all going to improve as the season progress. Our 3rd line has played exceptionally well and 4th line has been pretty consistent and has also chipped in offensively. I am not worried about our offense, as we have enough weapons for the opponents to completely shut us down (even in the playoffs), 2nd PP unit some shake up or we need to come up with a better strategy. What we really lack is defensive coverage in our own end and need to tighten up as a unit (forwards helping our defense), We also lack in toughness department, we really do not need any goons but as a team we should stand for each other, opponents should not be allowed liberties

The only problem I have with your assessment is grouping 16 and 34 together.

Absolutely loved what I’ve seen from the 3rd line.

I also hope Dermott comes in hot, we need a spark.

 

[Hustlr]

Nylander is a non issue comparatively. Absolutely trivial compared to Marner, yes. Even Matthews is too rich.

I don’t deny I would’ve liked to see our players at those numbers but I think Nylander and Matthews will live up to them.

 

[egd27]

You might be confusing what Babcock says vs what he does. He talks a big game and says all the right things but in practice not much is visible. Instead of going back to the country club, they could always just get a coach who lets their actions speak for them.

Time will tell

 

[MyBudJT]

Lol at the Marner hate. These folks will look silly in a few weeks...

 

[Cleetus]

Perhaps the Leafs can build on tonites performance...even though there is plenty of room for improvement!

A guy like Zach Hyman in the top 6 would really help this team....

 

[Throw More Waffles]

That would be fine but it's more like...

Matthews 9.5m @ 5y
Nylander 6.5m @ 6y
Marner 8.5m @ 6y

That's about... ohh... 24.5 call it 25m for the 3 vs. 30m or about 5M in overpays and Jake Gardiner signed for 4m for 4 years. He is a really good defender.

I understand the want and need to trivialize this situation but it's going to keep carrying on with the D that want contracts. Do you really think they want to be paid like chumps looking at this? How about the tender? I mean, why would you? lol. Just hold out and tell them you want more.

Even the Kapanen/Johnsson contracts are looking questionable. I just don't understand why 1 time (lol) 40 point players were rewarded with 10 million dollars.

People kept SCREAMING at me that they're great contracts... and I was thinking... based on what? ONE 40 point seaon? Brown had a similar first season.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Lol at the Marner hate. These folks will look silly in a few weeks...

Remember, as we've seen this offseason, rfa's that score somewhere around 90 points sign for somewhere around 9 million.

So Marner is STILL significantly overpaid even if he comes around to his 90 point form (which he's only done once).

He needs to be top 5 in points, well over 100 points to earn his contract.

And we will NOT forget it. And we will NOT be quiet about it.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Lol at the Marner hate. These folks will look silly in a few weeks...

I hope so.

 

[Warden of the North]

Thing with Marner is he pegged his value to his production in negotiating on the notion that he’s as good as Matthews. But in early season play you can clearly see that he can produce a high volume of points and look good statistically while doing nothing on the ice. So the problem is we’re paying for a stats line that may have no bearing on team success.

As it stands, he’s put an unbelievable amount of pressure on himself but if you want to be significantly richer than Kane and Kucherov, you better bring a lot to each game and not look like a junior player out there. It’s crazy that in the four years he’s been in the NHL he hasn’t improved his physical strength or center of gravity while guys like Moore and Timashov are small guys who add lots of sandpaper to create more value.

Ive had three seasons to see that Marner can produce "quality" points. That means a hell of a lot more then 6 games to start a year.

Toronto's fascination with hating on skilled players is truly something else.

 

[Faltorvo]

Can we stop complaining about Marner's contract already?
Everyone agrees Dubas overpaid ... but not by much. Maybe $1M or $1.5M too much?? Right?
If we had signed Marner for $9.4M I know people would be calling Dubas a genius.

But does it all really matter with an $80M cap?
We overpaid ALL our guys by what? $3M total? Of an $80M cap?

Lets assume we got Matthews at $10M, Nylander at $6.5 and Marner at $9.5M. Thats about 3.3M less than what we paid.
He got rid of Marleau's $5M and made a bunch of good moves and got rid of Brown, Gardiner, Kadri and Sparks to boot.

Can we get over the $3.3M overpayment? I would rather overpay our young stars than have Dubas do one bad contract.
Montreal has a $3.3M overpayment for Price alone (considering when it was signed).

hmmm

that 3.3m would look really good with some going to a back up tender and/or some defensive minded help.

and this "good work" will be very short lived since all the Defence he so heavily spent on will mostly be gone after this season.

 

[biotk]

You want to add to that? maybe why you disagree. Top 6 didnt show up.

Well thanks for responding to my post where I disagreed with someone saying that Matthews was "very good" last night, with "the top 6 didn't show up" - essentially the same obvious point using more words.

 

[thewave]

hmmm

that 3.3m would look really good with some going to a back up tender and/or some defensive minded help.

and this "good work" will be very short lived since all the Defence he so heavily spent on will mostly be gone after this season.

5m in overpays can be used in a multitude of ways to make a team much better. As you stated a backup would be nice. Jake Gardiner would have been nice, ensuring we have enough to sign say Muzzin would be nice. It doesn't end, money is money in the cap era, the more you have available the more you can do.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Well thanks for responding to my post where I disagreed with someone saying that Matthews was "very good" last night, with "the top 6 didn't show up" - essentially the same obvious point using more words.

Matthews did have 4 shots and dominated possession. Weak competition sure, but it is still nice to see he's an effective presence even if he doesn't produce offensively. I don't think that was the case last year

 

[hector morrison]

A guy like Zach Hyman in the top 6 would really help this team....

Hahaha!