Pre-Game Talk: Leafs vs Flames Wed Dec 6 @ 7:30 pm EST

[PromisedLand]

This is not a contender this team, because they do not have 4 lines.

They do have the personnel for 4 lines, but for political reasons and not hockey reasons, the Leafs just stick with the same, even when it becomes glaringly obvious changes have to be made.

We're almost at game 30. No one is going to turn it around a on dime now. What we see is what we get.

I still don't know what holding on to Bozak/JVR/Komarov and letting them walk as UFA accomplishes

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I still don't know what holding on to Bozak/JVR/Komarov and letting them walk as UFA accomplishes

I don't know what trading them for futures when the team is 3 points out of 1st overall in the NHL, and weakening the team acomplishes

 

[ToneDog]

Would love to see them embarrass Burkie and his team once again.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I still don't know what holding on to Bozak/JVR/Komarov and letting them walk as UFA accomplishes

Playoff experience most likely, we would weaken our chances and increase our opponents. Sometimes you just hold onto a vet and let them walk at the end of the year and be happy with the cap space.

 

[Polaris1010]

I still don't know what holding on to Bozak/JVR/Komarov and letting them walk as UFA accomplishes

I know you are a Marner fan (maybe you're not, don't remember) ...

JVR - Bozak - Marner ... replace JVR with anybody, and that line will be an offensive black hole and a line that Babcock still won't trust defensively.

That is the biggest surprise this season, that that line has collapsed with only JVR still going. Read in the papers that Bozak had 3 points in his first three games when the team was run and gun and not much after that. I remember 2 goals in St.Louis when the game was out of hand. Other than that, wow, did not realize this is his worst season in his career.

As for Marner, maybe a stint in the minors will help his development. He has to regain that scoring touch. He has too much talent not to score. He was great on the power play, but this is a good league, and after other teams adjusting, he's just meh again on the PP. Marner probably is the team's most improved player since game one, just no scoring. He's too good to be a third line play, but when you don't score, that is where a player tends to wind up.

That is why I always have a question on Babcock on what he really wants or what he is trying to do. Playing Bozak and Marner together, that is not exactly putting either in a position to succeed. It's more like putting both in a position to fail.

Then again, maybe he's tried almost everything. Babcock is a crafty guy. Cannot offend the potential GM Hunter. Cannot offend the analytics dept. He likes Toronto too much. At least he has his Polak ...

 

[Brobust]

While the leafs joked about Uncle Marleau today and everybody seemed to be in high spirits, the Calgary Flames got bag skated.

I'm slightly worried about tomorrow.

 

[Polaris1010]

While the leafs joked about Uncle Marleau today and everybody seemed to be in high spirits, the Calgary Flames got bag skated.

I'm slightly worried about tomorrow.

Leafs play a lot better when they are rested.

They should beat those guys again. Improve the home record.

 

[PromisedLand]

I don't know what trading them for futures when the team is 3 points out of 1st overall in the NHL, and weakening the team acomplishes

Futures can be then traded to fill the hole. Letting them walk accomplishes what exactly

 

[PromisedLand]

Playoff experience most likely, we would weaken our chances and increase our opponents. Sometimes you just hold onto a vet and let them walk at the end of the year and be happy with the cap space.

If this was a cup contender team I see the point but I don't see it. Bozak line is the weakest link defensively; unless Babcock runs 4 lines with potential to score then we can try and out score our problems.

Decent D is still lacking; besides Hainsey, I don't trust anyone defensively; even Reilly who has improved his game I don't have much faith in him defensively

 

[PromisedLand]

I know you are a Marner fan (maybe you're not, don't remember) ...

JVR - Bozak - Marner ... replace JVR with anybody, and that line will be an offensive black hole and a line that Babcock still won't trust defensively.

That is the biggest surprise this season, that that line has collapsed with only JVR still going. Read in the papers that Bozak had 3 points in his first three games when the team was run and gun and not much after that. I remember 2 goals in St.Louis when the game was out of hand. Other than that, wow, did not realize this is his worst season in his career.

As for Marner, maybe a stint in the minors will help his development. He has to regain that scoring touch. He has too much talent not to score. He was great on the power play, but this is a good league, and after other teams adjusting, he's just meh again on the PP. Marner probably is the team's most improved player since game one, just no scoring. He's too good to be a third line play, but when you don't score, that is where a player tends to wind up.

That is why I always have a question on Babcock on what he really wants or what he is trying to do. Playing Bozak and Marner together, that is not exactly putting either in a position to succeed. It's more like putting both in a position to fail.

Then again, maybe he's tried almost everything. Babcock is a crafty guy. Cannot offend the potential GM Hunter. Cannot offend the analytics dept. He likes Toronto too much. At least he has his Polak ...

I am a huge Marner fan but yea he has not been himself as much but I see him picking up. I wouldn't send him to the minors. I believe he will get going once his center gets going. There is a reason centers get paid more and good centers are highly desirable.

Bozak has 10 games to figure it out, if not, am not sure what what his role is anymore on this team and if he belongs here to be honest

 

[PromisedLand]

While the leafs joked about Uncle Marleau today and everybody seemed to be in high spirits, the Calgary Flames got bag skated.

I'm slightly worried about tomorrow.

Me tooo

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Futures can be then traded to fill the hole. Letting them walk accomplishes what exactly

but then you have several holes instead of the 1 that we currently have and that is a top 4 D, keeping them means your team is as strong as it can be

When you are as close to the top of the NHL as Toronto is you don't sell, unless a D man is coming back, you certainly don't sell for futures

 

[ToneDog]

I still don't know what holding on to Bozak/JVR/Komarov and letting them walk as UFA accomplishes

but then you have several holes instead of the 1 that we currently have and that is a top 4 D, keeping them means your team is as strong as it can be

When you are as close to the top of the NHL as Toronto is you don't sell, unless a D man is coming back, you certainly don't sell for futures

Some fans (who do not live in the real world) call it bad asset management. They do not understand that sometimes making the playoffs is more valuable than a draft pick or two.

 

[PromisedLand]

but then you have several holes instead of the 1 that we currently have and that is a top 4 D, keeping them means your team is as strong as it can be

When you are as close to the top of the NHL as Toronto is you don't sell, unless a D man is coming back, you certainly don't sell for futures

You fill those winger holes with Leivo, Kapanen, Sosh. Nylander moves to center.

Hypothetically suppose leafs hold on to them and get beat in the first round or 2nd round then what?

If this team hadcontender potential, I see your point but I don't think this team has contender potential with the roster

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

While the leafs joked about Uncle Marleau today and everybody seemed to be in high spirits, the Calgary Flames got bag skated.

I'm slightly worried about tomorrow.

Is this from Rocky III?

 

[ToneDog]

While the leafs joked about Uncle Marleau today and everybody seemed to be in high spirits, the Calgary Flames got bag skated.

I'm slightly worried about tomorrow.

Me tooo

They friggin lost to the Flyers last night after being embarassed by the Oilers on HNIC. The same Flyers who broke a 10 game losing streak and are a tire fire at the moment. They deserved to be bag skated. As long as we show up (this could be a let down game after returning from a western road trip) or Smith does not pull a Markstrom we should hand them another loss.

 

[Master Bill]

Hey folks, Flames fan coming in peace - just wanted to ask some of you experienced visitors of the ACC.

I will be attending tomorrow's game and I was kinda hoping to catch the Flames players after the game for pictures and autographs, when they walk out of the arena. Do any of you know where around the ACC it's possible for fans to catch visiting teams, if possible at all? Also, do the Leafs allow the public to come see morning skates upon request?

Thanks in advance.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You fill those winger holes with Leivo, Kapanen, Sosh. Nylander moves to center.

Hypothetically suppose leafs hold on to them and get beat in the first round or 2nd round then what?

If this team had a contender potential, I see your point but I don't think this team had contender potential with the roster

I do see this team as a contender and I think Management does too, I mean look at what they have done, or even tried to do.

They signed Marleau, you don't sign Marleau if you don't think this team is moving into contender status.

They pushed hard to sign Thornton, you don't try to sign Thornton if you don't see this team heading toward contender status.

They Nearly landed Condon and Hamonic going after those 2 shows this team is looking to be a contender.

The "Rebuild" is done it is clear as day this team is now entering "win now" mode

Hell even getting Pickard is asign of that he was clearly brought in to eventually replace Mcbackup and that day is coming if Mcbackup doesn't smarten up and get his shit together because a 900 save% won't cut it.

the team is entering win now mode, I know it's hard for people to accept because the rebuild only lasted about 15 months, but we are here now we have the Franchise C, we have the young stud wingers, we have the scoring depth, we have the goalie, we have everything we need except a top 4 D man.

As for going down in round 1, I don't see that, If Toronto wins the division, and they could tey are only 3 points back then they get a wild card team in round 1, and they are better than any team that can get that wild card spot, yes I do think they are better than the Pens, and they would kill the caps this time.

If they don't win the Division and they get #2 in the Division, and I do think they finish top 2,

That means you get one of Detroit, Boston, Ottawa, Montreal and I guess I will throw Florida and Buffalo in there but let be honest they aren't getting it.

Toronto beats every one of those teams in a 7 game series and I don't think it's close, I have watched them all this is a BAD division, the only reason 3 teams are making it from this division is because 3 teams have to make it, otherwise there would be 2 and it would be Toronto and Tampa, the rest are garbage.

 

[Mugzy97]

eh not a fan of pacing, injuries and constant injuries are a negative for a player. Being able to play the games is a skill, outside of the shortened season of course not his fault he didn't play 82 that season either. Pacing is good for times like now when its during that current season, Bozak on pace for 33 points this year by the way

Well I mean, he got 47, 49, 49, 55 as his highs, so technically not a 50 pt player, but not calling him one is a bit too picky for me.

 

[Kiwi]

Some fans (who do not live in the real world) call it bad asset management. They do not understand that sometimes making the playoffs is more valuable than a draft pick or two.

Getting a lecture on the "real world" and asset management from you is hilarious

Are you going to give us a lecture on our cup winning pedigree this year now?

 

[PuckMagi]

I still don't know what holding on to Bozak/JVR/Komarov and letting them walk as UFA accomplishes

Would you trade JVR for a second round pick right now? Because that is all you would get. Maybe a bad prospect too if we are lucky.

 

[MR4]

Would you trade JVR for a second round pick right now? Because that is all you would get. Maybe a bad prospect too if we are lucky.

No it isn't lmao now the anti-traders are making up values. We can hold them all the way to the trade deadline and sell high. Then trade the assets for a RHD if there's one available, or horde the assets for a future trade

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

If this was a cup contender team I see the point but I don't see it. Bozak line is the weakest link defensively; unless Babcock runs 4 lines with potential to score then we can try and out score our problems.

Decent D is still lacking; besides Hainsey, I don't trust anyone defensively; even Reilly who has improved his game I don't have much faith in him defensively

Yeah you can make a case for either viewpoint, I do think it's unlikely they shed assets if they are in a strong playoff position.

I also think in the playoffs anything can and does happen, if Freddy from November and Marner/Nylander heat up anything is possible. That in no way means I think we'll win but it's more likely than last year.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Getting a lecture on the "real world" and asset management from you is hilarious

Are you going to give us a lecture on our cup winning pedigree this year now?

The Leafs do have a window, this year they will in theory have vets they won't have next year. Sometimes you just let a player walk and get the experience.

Bad teams unload at the deadline and we're just not that bad of a team.

 

[MR4]

The Leafs do have a window, this year they will in theory have vets they won't have next year. Sometimes you just let a player walk and get the experience.

Bad teams unload at the deadline and we're just not that bad of a team.

St. Louis sold Shattenkirk and then acquired Schenn (top 12 in scoring) in the next offseason because they had expendable assets to trade, filling a huge hole. Teams that last long have great asset management. I don't think a team should risk it all on 1 year ever, unless it's clear the core is going to need to be rebuilded in the next 1-2 years.