Proposal: Leafs/Preds blockbuster

[herzausstein]

Without taking contracts into account....

Nylander > RV

Don't know what nylander is going to sign for but to a capstrapped team...

RV @ 4.25x6 > nylander @ 7x7 (a guess at $)

That kind of cap stability and savings would allow a capstrapped team to make another investment into another part of the team which needs a boost. If they are to trade nylander, it would be for someone like RV on a cost effective contract or tolvanen who has 3 years left on the entry level contract

 

[glucker]

Arvidsson's contract helps negate any advantage Nylander has with his age, and it's not like Arvidsson is pushing 40, he just turned 25.

Pedigree means nothing after prospects graduate, these guys both had the same exact amount of points two years in a row, they're on par with each other. You wouldn't say that Gardiner is better than Ekholm just because he was drafted in the 1st round a decade ago.

The 1st round pick coming back has value, but not enough for a cup contender to downgrade that much, and as you said it might as well be an early 2nd.

Nylander has 3 more years of development time on Arvidsson. There is a lot of growth that happens from 21/22-24/25, not to mention you get more RFA years with Nylander.

Nylander will likely get more money than Arvidsson, but better players tend to get paid better.

 

[Soundgarden]

Leafs say big no

Nylander > Arvidsson

Gardiner + 1st > Ekholm

The only people who think that are Leaf fans and people who only look at points when valuing defenseman. The 1st will be a low one too.

 

[pmwlker]

I look at Arvidsson and he's had identical 61 point back to back seasons as Nylander, Nylander is 22, Arvidsson is 25, I'd rather have the younger Swede with the same numbers.

When you look at Ekholm even then Jake Gardiner may not be perfect but he's coming off a 52 point season, the year prior he had 43 points, both of these seasons are more than Ekholm has ever produced.

Oh yea..and we'd be losing our 1st round pick...yea no thanks.

Nylander has 8 points in 13 career playoff games, using your logic Arvidsson is also a "no show" with 24 points in 49 career playoff games.

Gardiner also has 10 points in 19 career playoff games, Ekholm with 27 in 55.

Please, don't be a hypocrite, Arvidsson and Ekholm simply have a larger sample size with more games in the playoffs, stop acting like they are playoff warrior gods when the stats don't suggest it whatsoever.

Using point totals to compare Gardiner and Ekholm. Really??

 

[PromisedLand]

The only people who think that are Leaf fans and people who only look at points when valuing defenseman. The 1st will be a low one too.

Ekholm is a good d-man but is very overrated.

Preds d-core is Subban Jossi and then Ekholm. If Ekholm had to play without those two studs he wouldn’t be as overrated as he is now

 

[Soundgarden]

Nylander has 3 more years of development time on Arvidsson. There is a lot of growth that happens from 21/22-24/25, not to mention you get more RFA years with Nylander.

Nylander will likely get more money than Arvidsson, but better players tend to get paid better.

Ok, but how much better will he get and how much more money will he make. If he gets $7 mil but "only" scores 70 than are those ten points worth paying 3mill more for? And it's not like Arvidsson's game is one dimensional, like GeuxPreds said he does way more than just shoot well.

Toronto fans are complaining about losing Nylander for a player that's around his current skill level when they should be jumping up and down for getting Ekholm for such a steal.

 

[Community]

The biggest issue is the fact that if they would accept those deals, Gardiner and Nylander would have been re-signed already.

Unlikely they sign these deals in Toronto, even less likely they do in Nashville (because theyve been in Toronto their entire pro careers, not that there is anything wrong with Nashville).

Edit: Gardiner scored 50pts last year, if he re-signs today he can get 6+.

 

[Soundgarden]

Ekholm is a good d-man but is very overrated.

Preds d-core is Subban Jossi and then Ekholm. If Ekholm had to play without those two studs he wouldn’t be as overrated as he is now

No. This is the argument fans of other teams used on us Nashville fans to argue that Weber wasn't good in his prime because he had Suter and Rinne, but also that Suter wasn't as good in his prime because he had Weber and Rinne and they continue to use on Rinne because he had Weber and Suter and now has Josi and Subban. We can have more than one good player, that's why we won the Presidents trophy.

Ekholm is most often, I only say this because it changes night in and night out, the best defensive defender on our team. He may not be a no.1 defenseman, but he'd be no.2 on Toronto behind Rielly and if they both didn't play the left side it'd be a great top pairing.

 

[PromisedLand]

No. This is the argument fans of other teams used on us Nashville fans to argue that Weber wasn't good in his prime because he had Suter and Rinne, but also that Suter wasn't as good in his prime because he had Weber and Rinne and they continue to use on Rinne because he had Weber and Suter and now has Josi and Subban. We can have more than one good player, that's why we won the Presidents trophy.

Ekholm is most often, I only say this because it changes night in and night out, the best defensive defender on our team. He may not be a no.1 defenseman, but he'd be no.2 on Toronto behind Rielly and if they both didn't play the left side it'd be a great top pairing.

You are over-valuing Ekholm

 

[Soundgarden]

You are over-valuing Ekholm

Or are you over valuing Gardiner and a late first?

 

[Stephen]

Big no from Toronto. This is Mattias Ekholm.

 

[Critical13]

I love how leafs say Nylander is far more valuable than Arvy...based on...well... nothing.

Ekholm is so so much better than Gardiner.

Nashville gets fleeced on this deal

This reply is just classic HFBoards in every way. It's asking for confrontational, it's openly judgemental to an entire fanbase, it lacks any kind of redeeming value in that there is no evidence to back it up...just classic. Imagine if I decided all Pens fans were assholes only because I read your post?

Just to throw this out there:

• As of today, Nylander is 22 and Arvidsson is 25.
• Nylander's career PPG - 0.73
• Arvidsson's career PPG - 0.63
• At age 22, Arvidsson's PPG - 0.26
• Nylander has C potential and has played C at a high level
• Nylander's career 5v5 CF% 50.2, CF rel% 1.8
• Arvidsson's career 5v5 CF% 51.2, CF rel% 2.4

I am not here to bash Arvidsson - earlier in the thread I said I would love to have him, and I would probably do this deal. However, it's pretty clear that Leaf fans saying Nylander is the better player is not based on...well...nothing. He's been a better player at every age. He's at least on par at the same age, and he has C potential. If it was still a position of need, he would defintiely be lining up as a C at this point in his NHL career.

That's just the most basic comparison which shows there is reason to say he is better. What he gives up in marginally in Corsi, he more than makes up for in production.

I mean, you then say Ekholm is "so much better than Gardiner". This one is much harder to deabte, only because they play such a different style of game. One is a possession monster (Ekholm), while one is an offensive guru (Gardiner) with a 1.1 A1/60 at 5 on 5. If you are wondering how good that is, Karlsson is a 1.3 A1/60 at 5v5.

To me, it's much more ridiculous to claims Ekholm is way better than Gardiner, and provide 0 background. You are doing the exact thing you are whining about in your post...you are making a claim with no support. Hypocrisy!

 

[GeauxPreds1]

This reply is just classic HFBoards in every way. It's asking for confrontational, it's openly judgemental to an entire fanbase, it lacks any kind of redeeming value in that there is no evidence to back it up...just classic. Imagine if I decided all Pens fans were *******s only because I read your post?

Just to throw this out there:

• As of today, Nylander is 22 and Arvidsson is 25.
• Nylander's career PPG - 0.73
• Arvidsson's career PPG - 0.63
• At age 22, Arvidsson's PPG - 0.26
• Nylander has C potential and has played C at a high level
• Nylander's career 5v5 CF% 50.2, CF rel% 1.8
• Arvidsson's career 5v5 CF% 51.2, CF rel% 2.4

I am not here to bash Arvidsson - earlier in the thread I said I would love to have him, and I would probably do this deal. However, it's pretty clear that Leaf fans saying Nylander is the better player is not based on...well...nothing. He's been a better player at every age. He's at least on par at the same age, and he has C potential. If it was still a position of need, he would defintiely be lining up as a C at this point in his NHL career.

That's just the most basic comparison which shows there is reason to say he is better. What he gives up in marginally in Corsi, he more than makes up for in production.

I mean, you then say Ekholm is "so much better than Gardiner". This one is much harder to deabte, only because they play such a different style of game. One is a possession monster (Ekholm), while one is an offensive guru (Gardiner) with a 1.1 A1/60 at 5 on 5. If you are wondering how good that is, Karlsson is a 1.3 A1/60 at 5v5.

To me, it's much more ridiculous to claims Ekholm is way better than Gardiner, and provide 0 background. You are doing the exact thing you are whining about in your post...you are making a claim with no support. Hypocrisy!

By your logic Gardiner is just as good as karlasson. Holy cow. Get out of here. I've seen more or less on every Toronto's thread that Toronto's players are better than every other teams players. Oh and you use arvi' s stats when he was 22 was when he was on the 4th line. But that don't matter any advantage to make their player sound way better

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Nylander = Arvidsson

Gardiner + 2020 1st < Ekholm

No reason for Nashville to do this unless they're really (too) high on Tolvi replacing RV on the wing.

 

[ole ole]

Toronto receives:

Arvidsson
Ekholm

Nashville receives:

Nylander(signed at 6.5m for 7 years)
Gardiner(extended to 4.5m for 3 years)
Toronto’s 2020 first round pick

The only thing that might entice Nash is change Nylander to Marner and then Nash might and i say MIGHT bite.

 

[Randy Randerson]

The only people who think that are Leaf fans and people who only look at points when valuing defenseman. The 1st will be a low one too.

fwiw, Gardiner is a much better defenseman than he gets credit for. His overall affect on the game/his linemates is a very positive one, he just does it in a high event manner - lots of chances for and against, but the balance is always in his favour and he measurably helps his linemates to be positive in the same regard. Ekholm's age & salary probably tilt the scales in his favour (including the 1st rounder), but Gardiner is much better than he gets credit for because his mistakes are memorable. If he knocked off the risky plays on his own side of center, he's probably a #1 Dman

 

[Tysonson3]

Arvidsson = Nylander when you factor in contracts and I would not want to play Gardiner with Subban. People saying ekholm is overrated because he plays with Josi/Subban/Weber etc have obviously forgotten that until the Subban trade Ekholm and Ellis were probably the best second pairing in hockey. Counter proposal

Fiala, Ellis and 2019 2nd for Marner and Zaitsev

 

[LordZapp]

Why are people so infatuated with how many points defensemen score? DEFENSEmen

 

[Cor]

Why are people so infatuated with how many points defensemen score? DEFENSEmen

I know.

Throw out Gardiners offensive production and what is he left with? Incredibly good defensive metrics and overall analytics.

Almost like he's a very good top 4 guy.

 

[Gary Nylund]

fwiw, Gardiner is a much better defenseman than he gets credit for. His overall affect on the game/his linemates is a very positive one, he just does it in a high event manner - lots of chances for and against, but the balance is always in his favour and he measurably helps his linemates to be positive in the same regard. Ekholm's age & salary probably tilt the scales in his favour (including the 1st rounder), but Gardiner is much better than he gets credit for because his mistakes are memorable. If he knocked off the risky plays on his own side of center, he's probably a #1 Dman

I get what you're saying but that came out sounding a bit funny.

 

[GeauxPreds1]

Arvidsson = Nylander when you factor in contracts and I would not want to play Gardiner with Subban. People saying ekholm is overrated because he plays with Josi/Subban/Weber etc have obviously forgotten that until the Subban trade Ekholm and Ellis were probably the best second pairing in hockey. Counter proposal

Fiala, Ellis and 2019 2nd for Marner and Zaitsev

Lol that's funny. That doesn't get you marner

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Only nashville says no

 

[Albz]

If we can sign gardiner to a 4.5m a ywar that be one of the best contracts in the league lol... he had 52 points amd +9 last year.. some stupid.leafs fans hate him cause he played terrible in that last game.. its known here to throw a player under the bus just cause of a terrible game... thank god our management team arent as stupid as some fans here

 

[LordZapp]

I know.

Throw out Gardiners offensive production and what is he left with? Incredibly good defensive metrics and overall analytics.

Almost like he's a very good top 4 guy.

Oh look. A bunch of vague terminology that doesn't actually fuel your retort. Care to elaborate on these incredibly good metrics and analytics?

 

[Notsince67]

Why are people so infatuated with how many points defensemen score? DEFENSEmen

Why are the lightning trying to sign a scoring forward who pretends to be a defenseman?