Post-Game Talk: Leafs play poorly and lose 6-1 and JT takes the heat

[Throw More Waffles]

It might be a thing.

I think Babcock has 2 playoffs to show some progress.

If the Leafs cant win a round in the playoffs in the next 2 seasons, his tenure is in jeopardy.

My only hope for this team is Matthews is just saving his body for the post season. If this is all he gives, and the "First ten games of this season" Matthews is a thing of the past, then it'll be hard to win 16 games with this crew.

Hope springs eternal.

The leafs are paying top dollar for their “elite” young talent. You really think it’s reasonable to say they have FOUR years to try and win ONE playoff round? The Hawks and Pens won cups four years in. And for the leafs just ONE playoff round in that time is good enough?

 

[fahad203]

“I feel bad that we didn’t show up, we didn’t play,” Zach Hyman said. “We wanted to win this game for [Tavares] and we didn’t even give ourselves a chance with all the turnovers and nonsense. And everyone was included in that, everyone was at fault.
“Really frustrating game that we need to learn from.”

https://www.tsn.ca/tavares-return-met-with-vitriol-little-help-from-teammates-1.1265950

I rag on Hyman all the time. I mean all the time. i still don't think he's a top 6 player
But man this kid is all heart and soul. To me he's the next captain, nobody else is. Only goal was him and even second goal that was waved was him

This kid shows up.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I rag on Hyman all the time. I mean all the time. i still don't think he's a top 6 player
But man this kid is all heart and soul. To me he's the next captain, nobody else is. Only goal was him and even second goal that was waved was him

This kid shows up.

It is really sad when he is our only guy. Really sad. I sat at TD for games 1 and 2 last year against Bruins and it was the same old story. Hyman only leader but he just does not have the skill to lead/carry the team. We need 2 more guys like him and maybe we can get over the hump.

 

[Mess]

Dat Goaltending tho.
Wow.

They're #1 in the NHL for a reason, because they insulate and protect their goalie well and he just has to make many routine easy saves as they limit 2nd chances and high quality scoring opportunities against.

Sparks was forced to make much tougher saves despite giving up 6 goals on the night or it would have been much worse.

Barry Trotz is famous for deploying a system that emphasizes "the best offense is a good defense" and despite a lack of a lot of high-end skill he has been provided a blend of players that are kryptonite to teams that live and survive on skill alone, particularly those that don't like physical contact.

Trotz would have even less success with Leafs line-up than his own, and in Washington and his Cup win he needed his Tom Wilson, Smith-Pelly and Brooks Orpik to better insulate his skill and let them succeed.

 

[Bones45]

Isles have the best 4th line in the NHL, and its not just our Leafs but a lot of teams have no answer for them and that is why it part the NYI sit at the top of their Division.

I recall reading that Martin was viewed as a goon when he played for TML. I think that was why he sat a bit --- He needs to play with people who compliment him -- Clutter and especially Zeeker blend well.

But honestly-- we are at the top simply because of Trotz and the change to the D.

 

[Notsince67]

Not even McDavid can be effective playing with weighty anchors like Marleau and Brown.

Marleau and Brown had great games against the Isles with Kadri at center.
It isn't clear to me that these guys were the problem. It was the stylistic approach brought to the game by the coach. Sometimes the game needs to slow down...particularly if the dmen aren't optimum.
The defense needed help yet the forwards weren't helping and the better Dmen forgot that they should take care of the defensive end first with the depleted lineup.
Really stupid to sit Oz for this one because he played fantastic against the Isles in the last one. Might have prevented some of the really soft goals because he doesn't commit to offense. Rielly omg...who coached him to be offense first when the dcore is limping?

I would have moved Nylander to the 1st line,directing Kappy to cause chaos on the third line. Sorry but Kappy wasn't that good against this team the last time around either. Playing him on a structured line doesn't optimize the chances for success because he isn't a structured type of player. Matthews is a key guy to helping the defense weather the storm and he needed a structured guy like Willy to help him out with zone entry etc.
Matthews should have been asked to play a defensively responsible game. What we did was create a chaos line with Matthews and a hybrid on the third that just doesn't work. Willy just isn't that guy. You play him with one of the most important players who needs structured support.
Brown and Marleau aren't useless. Pairing them with Willy is useless. I know there are a lot of people here that think that Willy is a better center than Kadri. He is definitely a different type of center. I would submit that Kadri is better with certain types of players. That isn't a knock on Willy. If the team wants to maximize the skill sets, its time to move Willy on the first and let Marleau take center responsibilities until Kadri is back.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

And for then leafs just ONE playoff round in that time is good enough?

Well ... I think it is VERY unlikely Babcock gets fired in any scenario.
A first round exit this year, will not be placed on his shoulders.
I think this team could win a few rounds or get entirely shut out in 4 games, with the latter more likely than the former.

But 2 first round exits will at least bring up the idea the Leafs need a new coach.
Especially because our window is only 5 seasons + this one.

In all likelihood, our D will be the soft spot, and Dump and Chase (Classic Playoff) hockey will do us in. Our D won't handle the pressure.

Keys to Leaf's success in the post season.
1) Andersen
2) Andersen
3) Andersen
4) Special Teams
5) Andersen

The only wildcard for me is "Start of the season" Matthews returns for the playoffs. Matthews lack of physicality now hopefully is a strategy to prevent injuries and he goes Beast Mode in the post season when a goal here and there determines the fate of the team.

I also think the players dont really care about the playoffs. Fans do. Sure teams wanna win. But, only 2 teams ive seen take less money to try to stack their team: Boston and Tampa Bay. Matthews and Nylander sure grabbed what they could. And actions speak louder than words.
To me hockey is a team game and balance is key. Babcock is a balanced lines coach and Dubas is a Star-focused GM. The idea that Matthews makes more than McJesus when you factor in term is quite disappointing to me.

I make a move in offseason this year or next if our D is destroyed this post season. Likely hockey trade Nylander for D. Babcock putting Nylander on the 4th line again last night shows what he thinks.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Marleau is a HOFer but he is not an on ice leader. He has never ever stepped up. And last night was a time to shine and there was nothing there.

Clearly the kids are nowhere close to being leaders. Marner being the closest but he is not ready yet either.

No one could pick up Tavares when clearly he was distressed. Like I said when Hyman is your ONLY guy you are in deep sh*t. And Hyman is the ONLY guy we got. And he proves it time and time again.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

Barry Trotz is famous for deploying a system that emphasizes "the best offense is a good defense" and despite a lack of a lot of high-end skill he has been provided a blend of players that are kryptonite to teams that live and survive on skill alone, particularly those that don't like physical contact.

.

Not as famous as Lamoriello doing the same. That was the Devil's blueprint with Jacques Lemaire.

The Islanders are showing you can still win with a stifling, trapping, physical system that is predicated on waiting for the other team to make mistakes. Pat Burns would love the islanders.

 

[ACC1224]

I think what @mapleleafs34 meant was you give Sparks the out-of-conference game vs the lowly Oilers and Freddy starts the relatively important game.

The Oiler game is may have been over in the 1st if Sparks had started.
Monkeying with the rotation isn't the answer.
A reliable back up is but that's now a question for next year.

 

[mapleleafs34]

You don't win hockey games by scoring 1 goal often no matter what kind of excuse you want to say that the game was on Sparks.

It wouldn't have changed anything even if Sparks does stop the 3rd goal.

As soon as the 3rd goal went in, the players were deflated and they had less hope and motivation. If the goalie makes the save to keep it 2-1, it makes a big difference. So you can't say that the leafs would've only scored 1 goal if the game had stayed 2-1.

 

[SprDaVE]

As soon as the 3rd goal went in, the players were deflated and they had less hope and motivation. If the goalie makes the save to keep it 2-1, it makes a big difference. So you can't say that the leafs would've only scored 1 goal if the game had stayed 2-1.

I can say that. 3-1 isn't the end of the world. Even at 4-1 there's plenty of hockey to play.

If our hockey team gives up after a 3-1 game, we have bigger problems. BIG BIG problems.

The team was crap and the team should get blamed, not the goaltender when the first 2 goals he was completely left to dry.

 

[mapleleafs34]

The Oiler game is may have been over in the 1st if Sparks had started.
Monkeying with the rotation isn't the answer.
A reliable back up is but that's now a question for next year.

Exactly the point I'm trying to make to @SprDaVE for the Islander game. Freddy kept the leafs in that Oiler game, just like he would have likely kept the leafs in the Islander game, unlike Sparks.

 

[RASHBEEP]

I can say that. 3-1 isn't the end of the world. Even at 4-1 there's plenty of hockey to play.

If our hockey team gives up after a 3-1 game, we have bigger problems. BIG BIG problems.

The team was crap and the team should get blamed, not the goaltender when the first 2 goals he was completely left to dry.

exactly

 

[Leaftors]

As soon as the 3rd goal went in, the players were deflated and they had less hope and motivation. If the goalie makes the save to keep it 2-1, it makes a big difference. So you can't say that the leafs would've only scored 1 goal if the game had stayed 2-1.

Game would have been very different if our 2nd goal counted. As soon as it didn't and they scored again the game was over, i knew this and tried to shut it off, lost my remote and decided drinking was the answer to enjoying the remainder of the game, so that's how my night ended. lol.

 

[SprDaVE]

Exactly the point I'm trying to make to @SprDaVE for the Islander game. Freddy kept the leafs in that Oiler game, just like he would have likely kept the leafs in the Islander game, unlike Sparks.

It's possible Sparks gives up an extra goal that game. Maybe 2. Heck let's make it 3 extra goals. We scored 6 goals. We still win.

You can play this mental gymnastics all you want but it really doesn't matter.

 

[freewilly]

"I know he has given up 3 goals tonight but sparks has done his job tonight" --> Ray Ferraro, halfway through the 2nd period, milliseconds before Sparks gives up a fourth goal. What a clown most of these commentators are.

 

[mapleleafs34]

I can say that. 3-1 isn't the end of the world. Even at 4-1 there's plenty of hockey to play.

If our hockey team gives up after a 3-1 game, we have bigger problems. BIG BIG problems.

The team was crap and the team should get blamed, not the goaltender when the first 2 goals he was completely left to dry.

I'm not saying that. Just saying that a big save by a goaltender can swing the momentum of games a lot of the time.

 

[SprDaVE]

I'm not saying that. Just saying that a big save by a goaltender can swing the momentum of games a lot of the time.

Yes. Sometimes you get a big save, sometimes you need to save your goaltender. Welcome to hockey. Andersen has had plenty of crap games over the years.

Putting this on the goaltender is not a good opinion to have when your hockey team could only muster 1 goal for.

 

[Cor]

Sparks started the season well, but his last couple starts have been very disappointing.

Not that last night was even close to his fault.

However it’s clear we should be looking for a new backup on July 1.

 

[Cor]

You should paste that post in there.

That wouldn’t end well, so no.

 

[ACC1224]

Exactly the point I'm trying to make to @SprDaVE for the Islander game. Freddy kept the leafs in that Oiler game, just like he would have likely kept the leafs in the Islander game, unlike Sparks.

I was only able to watch the 1st half last night so I may be mistaken but I don't think the ghost of Terry Sawchuck would have helped the Leafs last night.
Once that 2nd Hyman goal was called back and they gave up the 3-1 goal so easily, it was over....IMO.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I think he is hurt for sure

He moved a LOT better when he first came over.

Those two big hits on him early in the game, by Martin and Komarov, may have had something to do with it.

 

[swint]

The hot takes on this board after a loss are hilarious. Bad game, but you can’t overlook the fact that the first period was some of the best hockey played this season from either team. The Leafs looked fast, engaged, and dangerous until the overturned offside goal.

Not sure what people on here’s opinions are on the new offside technology, but I’ve seen it ruin far too many games now to be “happy” with how it has changed hockey.

All things aside, let’s hope Babs uses this game as a stepping stone and realizes that throwing two cold d-men into one of the most important games of the season maybe isn’t the smartest of moves a professional coach could make.

Get em next game.

 

[mapleleafs34]

It's possible Sparks gives up an extra goal that game. Maybe 2. Heck let's make it 3 extra goals. We scored 6 goals. We still win.

You can play this mental gymnastics all you want but it really doesn't matter.

LOL you don't get the point I'm making so I'm done trying