Leafs need more truculence!!!

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I think you need to be cut off tonight time for you to sleep it off.

1993 was almost 30 years ago. What worked then doesn't work forever.

It also didn’t work. It got us as close as ever since 67, but it still wasn’t enough.

 

[FraumBallard]

It also didn’t work. It got us as close as ever since 67, but it still wasn’t enough.

That's the whole point
We can do it this year.
And.
Compete 6 more.
But you gotta build it right.
Too much x.
Virtually 0 y.

 

[Trapper]

Burke tried to make that truculent team and that's what we got.

Dubas wanted a skill team and we're a top 5 team in the NHL.

Would you like try stop using the Dubas method and try the Burke method again?

Burke had nothing save Kessel.
There was no truculence save losing.

His teams were so bad at least it was more fun when we were punching Montreal.

Thee is nothing wrong with having high end talent like Marner + Nylander surrounded by gritty/aggressive talent like Boston has.

 

[Nineteen67]

Burke had nothing save Kessel.
There was no truculence save losing.

His teams were so bad at least it was more fun when we were punching Montreal.

Thee is nothing wrong with having high end talent like Marner + Nylander surrounded by gritty/aggressive talent like Boston has.

Boston? They’re not really what I’m looking to emulate. Washington has a big hard to play against team led by Ovechkin, Wilson and even TJ Oshie. Oshie isn’t that big but he he gets to tough areas, he battles hard for pucks and uses his body .....why can’t the current Leafs players do the same?

 

[Kazparov]

Boston? They’re not really what I’m looking to emulate. Washington has a big hard to play against team led by Ovechkin, Wilson and even TJ Oshie. Oshie isn’t that big but he he gets to tough areas, he battles hard for pucks and uses his body .....why can’t the current Leafs players do the same?

Washington is a great example. Ovie had years and years of failure in the playoffs before he learned how gritty you have time be to win the Cup.

But you don't replace high end skill with grit you get high end skill to play grittier.

It will probably take more years of disappointing failure for the young guys to learn. If they do at all . Just the way it is

 

[Leafidelity]

I feel like there is a whole subset of old hockey fans that preferred fights to goals, and got lost in the cracks as the game evolved and the skill increased. Now they wander hockey forums, saying their favourite team needs a face puncher.

 

[Trapper]

Boston? They’re not really what I’m looking to emulate. Washington has a big hard to play against team led by Ovechkin, Wilson and even TJ Oshie. Oshie isn’t that big but he he gets to tough areas, he battles hard for pucks and uses his body .....why can’t the current Leafs players do the same?

Whether you choose Boston/Washington/whatever, I agree with the just of your post.
We don’t want goons or face punchers, you don’t need to be 6’10, but we need some of that skill you talk about in the top 6/9.

An eventual Marleau replacement like an Oshie is needed.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

So Brian Burke isnt a fool, he was right when he said truculence and belligerence etc. etc. It worked out when he was in Toronto :saracsm:....but ya we need some grit and tenacity sprinkled through the lineup

 

[Nineteen67]

Washington is a great example. Ovie had years and years of failure in the playoffs before he learned how gritty you have time be to win the Cup.

But you don't replace high end skill with grit you get high end skill to play grittier.

It will probably take more years of disappointing failure for the young guys to learn. If they do at all . Just the way it is

As long as there is growth it won’t be disappointing.
Again, we are hoping the playoffs revert to grinding hard hitting hockey and the style the Leafs currently play is not successful in anyway shape or form. If the playoffs are like the regular season, then shut down the NHL.

 

[Woodman19]

Why is it you can't mention getting tougher without people using extremes to compare styles, you don't go an entire team of Goons vs. Gretzky

 

[eddieO]

I feel like there is a whole subset of old hockey fans that preferred fights to goals, and got lost in the cracks as the game evolved and the skill increased. Now they wander hockey forums, saying their favourite team needs a face puncher.

I’m having trouble finding posts from people wanting a literal face puncher. Can you let me know where you’re seeing that?

And for the game changing so rapidly, can you name a team that has won the Cup with a roster softer than ours? I can’t.

It’s OK to admit the game has changed towards more skill while teams like Boston and Washington succeed because they have a balance between physicality and skill.

We don’t need to float extremes to make points. People are valid when they say Leafs need more grit. Dubas is trying to address it as evidenced by the Muzzin trade.

 

[DavePoulin4PM]

The Leafs could really use Nick Ritchie. He is one of the few players in the league, who is legitimately intimidating to play against and is a quality player. You want to combat Tom Wilson? You want to combat Chara? Go get this guy. Something like Connor Brown, Bracco and a 2

 

[Nineteen67]

The Leafs could really use Nick Ritchie. He is one of the few players in the league, who is legitimately intimidating to play against and is a quality player. You want to combat Tom Wilson? You want to combat Chara? Go get this guy. Something like Connor Brown, Bracco and a 2

For sure, but would Anaheim give up a guy like that? I would think they’d be inclined to keep the young cheap assets and trade the older ones.

 

[ToneDog]

The Leafs could really use Nick Ritchie. He is one of the few players in the league, who is legitimately intimidating to play against and is a quality player. You want to combat Tom Wilson? You want to combat Chara? Go get this guy. Something like Connor Brown, Bracco and a 2

Seems like a steep price to pay but I agree with your assessment. Crouse would be a lighter version but perhaps as good a target.

 

[nuck]

Boston? They’re not really what I’m looking to emulate. Washington has a big hard to play against team led by Ovechkin, Wilson and even TJ Oshie. Oshie isn’t that big but he he gets to tough areas, he battles hard for pucks and uses his body .....why can’t the current Leafs players do the same?

To be fair, Ovechkin is an absolute bull who can run over people and still shoot the lights out at a world class pace. He has more hits than the top two Leafs combined. None of the TO forwards play a remotely close physical game to that. The Leafs top player for hits would be 5th on the Caps so even without Wilson's fighting a playoff series against Washington is much different than what the Leafs will be able to roll out. The current Leafs players don't play that way. As I said in an earlier thread, it isn't a switch you can turn on, otherwise Dougie Hamilton would be Chris Pronger. They need players whose physicality is an organic part of their game. Hard to develop and harder to trade for.

 

[nuck]

Burke had nothing save Kessel.
There was no truculence save losing.

His teams were so bad at least it was more fun when we were punching Montreal.

Thee is nothing wrong with having high end talent like Marner + Nylander surrounded by gritty/aggressive talent like Boston has.

In the Burke era of 09-12 there was 15 teams that had 60+ major penalties in a year, There hasn't been a club since 14-15 that has had 50 majors. It was a different world. Chara is still sort of a nuclear deterrent for the Bs but their other forwards do play a grittier game. The Leafs could sure use a young Backes.

 

[Cobra777]

Toronto Public Figure Skating Team yeah I said it.
Saw last cup at 6 yrs old been a huge fan watching 95% of games since then, seen alot of crap, bad trades, bad teams, bad drafting, bad coaches and management etc.
I have been stoked last 2 seasons seeing a winning exciting dynamic team, IMHO the season we played Wash in the 1st round was the best, we gave them a run and put doubt in their minds all mostly close 1 goal games virtually and never backed down could have went either way. I was totally satisfied with the team ethic.
Last season and this season the team broke out the Charmin, SOFT as butter, little to no compete, afraid to take a hit to make a play, No sustained fore check on most nights as the corners seem no go zones for most of our team, can't retain a pass when they hear footsteps coming handling the puck like a hand grenade. What happened to all the zip puck movement beautiful plays?
There are to many passengers once again when the tough gets going they disappear, frig a team of 5'6 Brendan Galaghers would have more grit and fight than this team its a total shame.
All our core pieces want the huge dollars on their 1st contract but are not willing to get their noses completely dirty night in and out and dig like hell for that puck to make a hard play.
It just looks like another expensive Kessel, JVR culture club, when we score we fly and look dangerous, when we have no offense our team looks totally disengaged, putrid and SOFT, wouldn't break one in a dozen eggs if it were part of our equipment.

 

[Trapper]

In the Burke era of 09-12 there was 15 teams that had 60+ major penalties in a year, There hasn't been a club since 14-15 that has had 50 majors. It was a different world. Chara is still sort of a nuclear deterrent for the Bs but their other forwards do play a grittier game. The Leafs could sure use a young Backes.

The Leafs need a couple of players who can play a heavier game, cycle better and stronger with skill.

People keep thinking we want a team of Martin. I’m looking for a Johnsson or Marleau who can also play like Hyman or Oshie.

Heavier...Matthews...Nylander/Kappy
Hyman...Tavares...Marner
Heavier..Kadri...Nylander/Kappy

Now you can skill + dump/chase/cycle more effectively.

Same on the back. Gardiner or Zaitsev to a RH Muzzin. More adept at enduring the opposition cycle.

 

[A1LeafNation]

NHL moving in that direction.

Better to be ahead of the curve than behind it like Edmonton.

 

[ToneDog]

Toronto Public Figure Skating Team yeah I said it.
Saw last cup at 6 yrs old been a huge fan watching 95% of games since then, seen alot of crap, bad trades, bad teams, bad drafting, bad coaches and management etc.
I have been stoked last 2 seasons seeing a winning exciting dynamic team, IMHO the season we played Wash in the 1st round was the best, we gave them a run and put doubt in their minds all mostly close 1 goal games virtually and never backed down could have went either way. I was totally satisfied with the team ethic.
Last season and this season the team broke out the Charmin, SOFT as butter, little to no compete, afraid to take a hit to make a play, No sustained fore check on most nights as the corners seem no go zones for most of our team, can't retain a pass when they hear footsteps coming handling the puck like a hand grenade. What happened to all the zip puck movement beautiful plays?
There are to many passengers once again when the tough gets going they disappear, frig a team of 5'6 Brendan Galaghers would have more grit and fight than this team its a total shame.
All our core pieces want the huge dollars on their 1st contract but are not willing to get their noses completely dirty night in and out and dig like hell for that puck to make a hard play.
It just looks like another expensive Kessel, JVR culture club, when we score we fly and look dangerous, when we have no offense our team looks totally disengaged, putrid and SOFT, wouldn't break one in a dozen eggs if it were part of our equipment.

You might be exaggerating some of your points but you are closer to the truth than not. Just this morning I reminded myself of how they scared the crap out of the Capitals or we thought they did. Perhaps Trots knew all along they had it in the bag?

This team has another gear and I expect them to bring it in the playoffs. The leaders of this team have to show that they want it and the rest will follow.

 

[Joey Hoser]

You sound super tough and manly. You tell 'em.

 

[Nineteen67]

Toronto Public Figure Skating Team yeah I said it.
Saw last cup at 6 yrs old been a huge fan watching 95% of games since then, seen alot of crap, bad trades, bad teams, bad drafting, bad coaches and management etc.
I have been stoked last 2 seasons seeing a winning exciting dynamic team, IMHO the season we played Wash in the 1st round was the best, we gave them a run and put doubt in their minds all mostly close 1 goal games virtually and never backed down could have went either way. I was totally satisfied with the team ethic.
Last season and this season the team broke out the Charmin, SOFT as butter, little to no compete, afraid to take a hit to make a play, No sustained fore check on most nights as the corners seem no go zones for most of our team, can't retain a pass when they hear footsteps coming handling the puck like a hand grenade. What happened to all the zip puck movement beautiful plays?
There are to many passengers once again when the tough gets going they disappear, frig a team of 5'6 Brendan Galaghers would have more grit and fight than this team its a total shame.
All our core pieces want the huge dollars on their 1st contract but are not willing to get their noses completely dirty night in and out and dig like hell for that puck to make a hard play.
It just looks like another expensive Kessel, JVR culture club, when we score we fly and look dangerous, when we have no offense our team looks totally disengaged, putrid and SOFT, wouldn't break one in a dozen eggs if it were part of our equipment.

Figure skating? I liken them to a short track speed skating team

 

[Nineteen67]

NHL moving in that direction.

Better to be ahead of the curve than behind it like Edmonton.

I hope not. If it did they can forget any added TV revenue.

 

[Jmo89]

I feel like there is a whole subset of old hockey fans that preferred fights to goals, and got lost in the cracks as the game evolved and the skill increased. Now they wander hockey forums, saying their favourite team needs a face puncher.

Yeah... Because that's what most people are asking for right?

The vast majority of people aren't asking to trade Nylander for a goon. They're asking to trade an ineffective 3rd/4th line Brown for someone a little tougher in the same role. Or swap Lindholm for a guy with the same amount of skill but a bit more passion.

The extreme you used is far more foolish than the 2 posters who want a face puncher.

 

[Al14]

Toronto Public Figure Skating Team yeah I said it.
Saw last cup at 6 yrs old been a huge fan watching 95% of games since then, seen alot of crap, bad trades, bad teams, bad drafting, bad coaches and management etc.
I have been stoked last 2 seasons seeing a winning exciting dynamic team, IMHO the season we played Wash in the 1st round was the best, we gave them a run and put doubt in their minds all mostly close 1 goal games virtually and never backed down could have went either way. I was totally satisfied with the team ethic.
Last season and this season the team broke out the Charmin, SOFT as butter, little to no compete, afraid to take a hit to make a play, No sustained fore check on most nights as the corners seem no go zones for most of our team, can't retain a pass when they hear footsteps coming handling the puck like a hand grenade. What happened to all the zip puck movement beautiful plays?
There are to many passengers once again when the tough gets going they disappear, frig a team of 5'6 Brendan Galaghers would have more grit and fight than this team its a total shame.
All our core pieces want the huge dollars on their 1st contract but are not willing to get their noses completely dirty night in and out and dig like hell for that puck to make a hard play.
It just looks like another expensive Kessel, JVR culture club, when we score we fly and look dangerous, when we have no offense our team looks totally disengaged, putrid and SOFT, wouldn't break one in a dozen eggs if it were part of our equipment.

There is something wrong with the relationship between the players and the coaches IMHO.

There is just too much inconsistency from game to game with effort levels and compete willingness.

If the players can't show up, and compete every single game, because they don't like the coaching strategies, they have to find some way to communicate this to Dubas and Shanahan instead of dealing with it by delivering disappointing results all too often.

I also believe that Nylander and Matthews unwillingness to take team discounts also shows that they aren't too happy with the methods used by our coaching staff. If I had to play for Babcock, I'd want top dollar too for being played on the 4th line at times and/or having my ice time limited and being matched up with inferior line mates.

Other teams, like the Blues, are rolling with longish winning streaks, however, our talent laden team can't seem to get past a 5 game winning streak to save their lives. I don't get it.

Every 2nd or 3rd game does appear to be a public skate indeed.