Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 6-2

[Twowingcantfly]

I see all the usual faces that for some reason stopped wanting to discuss the Leafs when we were good are back now again.

Cheer leaders and rah rah types can settle for moral victories. I care most about winning lord Stanley's mug. Therefore I will cheer when I see fit. From what I see that's not happening for another 3-5 years at least. MLSE have no choice but to watch bad contracts run its course before starting over again..

 

[ToneDog]

This team came out absolutely FLAT from the get go they all looked 70 yrs old, Anderson's play also crapped the bed. This teams defense is also terrible as well. Zone coverage is brutal, can't stop a cycle if our life depended on it because we have no size or physical defense to lay the hit or knock an opponent down to take the puck, NO excuse for these injuries because Reilly is garbage this year and Muzz is as slow as molasses and always a step behind, we lost many games with these two in the line up this season. Then you have a forward group that has skill but just REFUSES to be physical in any way, they just do not hit or take the body to keep other teams honest other than Hyman sometimes. This team is a complete blessing to play against because you know you would never get hurt or hit and can pretty much play with ease and no fear. This is hockey for *&^% sakes not public skating, hitting is part of throwing your opponent off their game ala other teams game plan when they play us is be physical and fore check the crap out of us and watch our fancy speed skill game dissolve. Now with all the big contracts and cap crunch we are unable to add physical size on D or on wing or better goaltending and I don't give a rats arse who wants to argue this because this team will go nowhere being cream puffs in the top league in the World. This is by far the WORST team I have ever seen not taking the body or finishing any checks game after game.

Nice take. Yet, Dubas has convinced Shanny that this shit wins Stanley Cups. Wow.

 

[LeafSteel]

Really grateful I didn’t blow $400+ to see that garbage.

 

[frizzer1]

Even if he made the 3 saves he normally makes you lose that game. When our forwards don't register 5 goals we are in big trouble.

When a goaltender lets in a couple of bad goals it deflates the whole team.
We have no way of knowing what would have happened later in the game had he made those saves.

 

[NHL1995]

When a goaltender lets in a couple of bad goals it deflates the whole team.
We have no way of knowing what would have happened later in the game had he made those saves.

Patrick Roy said basically the exact same thing.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Cheer leaders and rah rah types can settle for moral victories. I care most about winning lord Stanley's mug. Therefore I will cheer when I see fit. From what I see that's not happening for another 3-5 years at least. MLSE have no choice but to watch bad contracts run its course before starting over again..

This is an amazing take. It has nothing to do with what I said, but whatever works for you. We can cheer together when you come back after the next rebuild then.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Kane is who we thought he was and we let him on a hooker.

 

[Jack Flask]

Nice take. Yet, Dubas has convinced Shanny that this **** wins Stanley Cups. Wow.

Very little physicality. They needed to add grit and sandpaper. Those skilled guys will not take you past 2nd round. The toughest teams win plain and simple. At the heart of competitive teams are the hard working grinders laying it on the line every shift. Many teams including the Leafs dont have enough.

 

[Cobra777]

Nice take. Yet, Dubas has convinced Shanny that this **** wins Stanley Cups. Wow.

Thanks Tone not trying to be a downer but I have been a fan since 6yrs old 1967 and this is the 1st season I have flipped the T.V off weather 1st period or what have you over 15 times and just walked away, this team imho has no identity or character and just fizzles out like a warm open pop

 

[Beaninfritz]

So, let me get this straight. It's almost like, missing two of your top (if not the top two) defensemen on your team, makes you weaker defensively. I'm not letting Freddie off the hook, since he did let in some stinkers, but every goalie has a bad game once in a while. Hoping that 2 ahl calibre players can adequately fill the void left by two solid nhl players is just unrealistic.

I'm thinking this season is as good as forgotten. Rielly and Muzzin out, having a temp like Ceci (and potentially Barrie too) playing for potentially just the one season doesn't look like it will work out well in the end. Maybe they'll bounce back strong once Rielly and Muzzin are back, and squeak their way into the playoffs, but it's a tough east this season. If the Leafs were in the west, they'd be tied for 5th right now. Instead, they're currently in 10th.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Very little physicality. They needed to add grit and sandpaper. Those skilled guys will not take you past 2nd round. The toughest teams win plain and simple. At the heart of competitive teams are the hard working grinders laying it on the line every shift. Many teams including the Leafs dont have enough.

You know a team that was even less physical? Chicago Blackhawks, when they won three cups in like five years. They were all skill, and was last in the league in hits over those years by quite the margin*. Another team built primarily on skill would be the Penguins. There's six cups built on skill for you.

* Excluding the expansion teams, who didn't play all years.

 

[Nithoniniel]

So, let me get this straight. It's almost like, missing two of your top (if not the top two) defensemen on your team, makes you weaker defensively. I'm not letting Freddie off the hook, since he did let in some stinkers, but every goalie has a bad game once in a while. Hoping that 2 ahl calibre players can adequately fill the void left by two solid nhl players is just unrealistic.

The thing is, Andersen has been pretty poor for a long time now and he's bleeding goals even compared to what he should given our defense.

 

[Jack Flask]

You know a team that was even less physical? Chicago Blackhawks, when they won three cups in like five years. They were all skill, and was last in the league in hits over those years by quite the margin*. Another team built primarily on skill would be the Penguins. There's six cups built on skill for you.

* Excluding the expansion teams, who didn't play all years.

Nonsense. Go back and take a look and tell me those teams didnt play with an edge. Particularly Pittsburgh.
Even if you were accurate, thats a few examples of what you call skilled Champions. Im not going to waste my time and make a much longer list of Stanley Cup Champions that possessed the elements we all know make teams really compete in hockey. Were not talking soccer here...

 

[GoonieFace]

You know a team that was even less physical? Chicago Blackhawks, when they won three cups in like five years. They were all skill, and was last in the league in hits over those years by quite the margin*. Another team built primarily on skill would be the Penguins. There's six cups built on skill for you.

* Excluding the expansion teams, who didn't play all years.

Chicago had some grit on those teams, Buff for the 1st one, Bickell, Shaw etc. Toews is a big boy that can play that way too. Pittsburgh were a skilled team but worked hard. Crosby is the perfect example, he would go through a wall on every shift. Cant say the same for the "core" guys on this team.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Nonsense. Go back and take a look and tell me those teams didnt play with an edge. Particularly Pittsburgh.
Even if you were accurate, thats a few examples of what you call skilled Champions. Im not going to waste my time and make a much longer list of Stanley Cup Champions that possessed the elements we all know make teams really compete in hockey. Were not talking soccer here...

I addressed physicality. Chicago was last in the league in hits during that time period. It's a fact. The best team in the cap era was one built with very little physicality. Their game was built around possession, passing through all three zones, and using creativity and skill to work themselves into better shooting positions. Again, the best team in the cap era is built in the mold people say don't work in the playoffs. Pittsburgh is a different beast. They were physical for sure, but their gameplan also revolved around skill.

You're saying that skill-based teams and skill players don't get you anywhere in the playoffs. That's obviously false.

I also find it very questionable to say that 'the heart of competitive teams' are hard working grinders. Guess what awful teams and contending teams have in common? Grinders. Guess what separates them? A full core of high-end talent. If you want a heart, that's where you'll find it.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Chicago had some grit on those teams, Buff for the 1st one, Bickell, Shaw etc. Toews is a big boy that can play that way too. Pittsburgh were a skilled team but worked hard. Crosby is the perfect example, he would go through a wall on every shift. Cant say the same for the "core" guys on this team.

Tavares has throughout his career been known as a Crosby lite in that regard. Toews is similar to them, not to the grinders and physical specimen you mentioned. He doesn't really hit. His average there is similar to Connor Brown's.

Let's continue comparing Chicago to us. Most of the names you mention there are fourth liners. Their actual core was about as physical as ours is. Seabrook, who you didn't mention, is matched by Muzzin. All in all, unless you think that the thing that made them the best team in the cup era and us unable to contend was the fourth line, that comparison is faltering. If there is a significant difference, it is that they were an immensely talented group. That was their defining trait. That's where they differentiate themselves from almost every other team in the league.

If you want to talk about playing with an edge, or having mental toughness, then that's another discussion. But the topic was physicality, and that's very obviously not what makes the great teams great.

I also find it funny that you write core in citation marks. They are our core, that's just how it is.

 

[GoonieFace]

Tavares has throughout his career been known as a Crosby lite in that regard. Toews is similar to them, not to the grinders and physical specimen you mentioned. He doesn't really hit. His average there is similar to Connor Brown's.

Let's continue comparing Chicago to us. Most of the names you mention there are fourth liners. Their actual core was about as physical as ours is. Seabrook, who you didn't mention, is matched by Muzzin. All in all, unless you think that the thing that made them the best team in the cup era and us unable to contend was the fourth line, that comparison is faltering. If there is a significant difference, it is that they were an immensely talented group. That was their defining trait. That's where they differentiate themselves from almost every other team in the league.

If you want to talk about playing with an edge, or having mental toughness, then that's another discussion. But the topic was physicality, and that's very obviously not what makes the great teams great.

I also find it funny that you write core in citation marks. They are our core, that's just how it is.

I see what you are saying, but I look at Toews and he is a big boy that uses his size. Im not saying he runs people through the boards, but he is physically hard to handle. Tavares is that type of player, but his skating holds him back and I dont think he has the ability to dominate like a Crosby. I know they are our core, but im not convinced they are capable of playoff success. I truly hope they prove me wrong.

 

[ShaneFalco]

 

[Nithoniniel]

I see what you are saying, but I look at Toews and he is a big boy that uses his size. Im not saying he runs people through the boards, but he is physically hard to handle. Tavares is that type of player, but his skating holds him back and I dont think he has the ability to dominate like a Crosby. I know they are our core, but im not convinced they are capable of playoff success. I truly hope they prove me wrong.

Sure, but wouldn't you say that Matthews is physically hard to handle as well?

Either way, I understand the perspective that our players need to grow a bit of an edge.

 

[MarnerElite]

Thanks Tone not trying to be a downer but I have been a fan since 6yrs old 1967 and this is the 1st season I have flipped the T.V off weather 1st period or what have you over 15 times and just walked away, this team imho has no identity or character and just fizzles out like a warm open pop

Same here and i've been around since the early 90's. This is why it pisses me off when people talk about cheering for a team that even when they win doesn't look good doing it(i don't care about your skill level if you keep every shitty team in the game and basically win by what i think is quite a bit of luck(aside from games against Detroit and few others)..I've been around long enough to realize that yes you can win the Stanely Cup in different ways..With offense alone? Sure..It happens rarely but yes it does happen. The thing is, i've also seen way more times, teams who aren't that talented offensively, make teams who are, look like an embarrassment. That's what this team is at the moment. It's extremely underwhelming and you have to be a young kid who appreciates fancy passes and basically unimportant crap to be excited about this. I want guys who look like they are battling in war(constant pressure, hits, blocks, getting into other guys face, standing up as a group instead of one guy dealing with 3 opposing players(do you guys notice no one comes to rescue the team mate?).