Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 5-3 | Get Ceci Off This Team Yesterday | #PrayForAndersen

[JayfromNB1219]

Why's it always a referendum when Cody Ceci costs this team games?

His underlying advanced fancy numbers are warm and fuzzy.

Just goes to show hockey isn't played on a spreadsheet...and while advanced stats can be a help, they should not be anywhere near a deciding factor when it comes to hockey players

 

[mikeyz]

If that's all that matters then there is nothing to talk about

You finally said something accurate.

Yes, wins ARE ALL that matters. These stupid corsi, analytic stays mean f*** all.

The game is played on the ice, not a spreadsheet.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

My wife's a Toronto gal and we always watch the games together and talk about the same afterwards. I normally read what fans think about certain games, but I hardly make a comment though. I was just surprised someone is on Auston's case.

Auston is a beast and every single Leafs fan knows it...we bitch because it's essentially overflow from the others, plus we've literally seen A.M put the team on his back and single handedly carry the team...when he's just a star we complain lol...but the real complaints fall on 3 guys today...Magic Mitch Hutchisieve and Cody "what is hockey " Ceci

M.M. - He's an elite level passer who didn't recognize an opportunity to seal a game with a cross ice (albeit a tough one) pass to a streaking A.M...he makes that play 9 times out of 10...not to mention the giveaway...He cares, but he grabbed an 11M contract, he will get everything he deserves at that price tag same as any other player making that kind of money

M.H.- No idea how he is still with the big club...waive him and bring up literally anybody (hell sign the zamboni driver for league min and let him warm the bench...he probably could have stopped a couple of those goals...I like Hutch as a human being but he's not being paid to be a nice human being...he's being paid to stop the occasional puck

C.C. - I don't even know...Mr Stats darling never seems to pass the eye test...I get what Dubas was trying to do in bringing him over, but its failed...there is a team out there who will take him (for another failed/fringe NHL'er in hopes of reviving his career...Dubas just has to avoid sweetening the deal "give me one of your cast offs I will give you Ceci..."

 

[JayfromNB1219]

yea Minny hangs up the phone....

Yeah I don't know if Guerin hangs up the phone on that one...
Ceci is a write off (everyone in the NHL knows this)
Johnsson helps their rebuild rather nicely as do Dermott and Bracco... I'd probably remove Dermott from the deal and say pick(5th round or further)+Ceci+Johnsson+Bracco
Dumba is good, but he's not pay out your ass good...he's no Parayko or Weber in his prime...

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Holy ****ing bi-polar nation. 1 bad loss and we are a bad team? Never kind that we have been the 3rd best in the league under Keefe.

The emotional stability of some people here is beyond concerning.

Last I checked it's an 82 game schedule not a schedule solely based on who is coaching...yeah they are playing better and that's great to see...but the lack of heart is still front and center on this team

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Just goes to show hockey isn't played on a spreadsheet...and while advanced stats can be a help, they should not be anywhere near a deciding factor when it comes to hockey players

You finally said something accurate.

Yes, wins ARE ALL that matters. These stupid corsi, analytic stays mean **** all.

The game is played on the ice, not a spreadsheet.

Codi Ceci does NOT have great advanced stats. Don't bring your dislike and hate for analytics into this lol. He had some good underlying stats at one point in the season, but overall it's been not great (not terrible, but not good either).

Since Keefe got hired (Nov 20th, 30 games ago):
- 6th out of 6D on our team for CF% (I.e the worst for shots against)
- 6th out of 6D on our team for HDCF% (I.e the worst high-danger shots against)
- 4th out of 6D on our team for GF%
- 3rd out of 6D on our team for xGF% (this one's not that bad)
- etc

However from a eye-test, he's looked good for a quite a long stretch of games (ever since he got paired with Sandin) and yesterday was his first shitty game in a while.

 

[BlueForever75]

Codi Ceci does NOT have great advanced stats. Don't bring your dislike and hate for analytics into this lol. He had some good underlying stats at one point in the season, but overall it's been not great (not terrible, but not good either).

Since Keefe got hired (Nov 20th, 30 games ago):
- 6th out of 6D on our team for CF% (I.e the worst for shots against)
- 6th out of 6D on our team for HDCF% (I.e the worst high-danger shots against)
- 4th out of 6D on our team for GF%
- 3rd out of 6D on our team for xGF% (this one's not that bad)
- etc

However from a eye-test, he's looked good for a quite a long stretch of games (ever since he got paired with Sandin) and yesterday was his first ****ty game in a while.

Who cares the eye test and real outcomes is what counts and Ceci sucks. Im all for analytics its my thing. But when a player sucks a player sucks. Numbers don't make it otherwise results do.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

"Also Vatrano is low key mvp for injuring Andy. I am so happy they won but their play the last 2 games is alarming. Anyone but the worst goalie in the league and this is a loss"

This is one of the ****ing classless puke panther fan posts

ZERO class

@ucanthanzalthetruth What a classy poster

but if we ever went over there and called them out we'd get banned...yet they can come here and talk sht to their hearts content

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Codi Ceci does NOT have great advanced stats. Don't bring your dislike and hate for analytics into this lol. He had some good underlying stats at one point in the season, but overall it's been not great (not terrible, but not good either).

Since Keefe got hired (Nov 20th, 30 games ago):
- 6th out of 6D on our team for CF% (I.e the worst for shots against)
- 6th out of 6D on our team for HDCF% (I.e the worst high-danger shots against)
- 4th out of 6D on our team for GF%
- 3rd out of 6D on our team for xGF% (this one's not that bad)
- etc

However from a eye-test, he's looked good for a quite a long stretch of games (ever since he got paired with Sandin) and yesterday was his first ****ty game in a while.

I don't hate advanced stats? do I think they are overused to justify middling players...absolutely I do...but I don't hate them, I just hate people who substitute the eye test for advanced stats like they are the godsend of player evaluation, I'm all for using the eye test for your initial feelings towards the player then checking the advanced stats to see if it matches up with what I see or not

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Unfortunately you have to play that way for 3 periods not 2, you play the game to Win.

But Florida only played well for one period, and they still won.

 

[Duke Silver]

Stats are just numbers. Still top 10 most wins.

I guess that would make Andrew Raycroft one of the best goaltenders in Leafs history?

 

[Notsince67]

Who won the Game that's all that matters, they played enough to win the Game, at the end of the day the Panthers one period was better than the Leafs two periods.

I was at the game. I could see the whole ice. What struck me was how dangerous and skilled most of the leafs are and how dumb a few individuals are. The leafs outplayed them the whole game. I really dont even want to blame them because they are what they are. Ceci doesnt belong and I'm completely puzzled how management doesnt appear to believe that Liljegren would be an upgrade to the right side of our D. Perhaps they know but they dont have enough faith that the team has what it takes after they take out a liability like Ceci. Ceci is not going to get better. They are more interested in sliding Lils elc than giving the team a chance to go for it. It's on them.

 

[Bedards Dad]

Last I checked it's an 82 game schedule not a schedule solely based on who is coaching...yeah they are playing better and that's great to see...but the lack of heart is still front and center on this team

Sure, but what they are currently doing is being the 3rd best team in the league. What they did under the old coach was be one of the worst teams in the league. If you can't see that firm divide then thats your issue.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Yet we’ve been regressing ever since the Washington series. That coincides with the last time Matthews put in defensive effort.

Again to be fair if he played like his rookie year every game then he would be a guy on IR each season

 

[stuart5035]

We dominated that game, but lost because of 2 players. Our 3rd pairing player in Ceci and a backup.
Stuff happens. Regroup but that one hurts.

Darn right it does

Today I am a heartbroken Leaf fan. So much was expected from that Florida game.

And I don’t want to hear that a true Leaf fan needs to simply support his team, no matter what. I think I care too much if anything.

Thats why I’m sad. The only thing I’m mad about is that management has ignored the goalie problem for so long.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

He wasn't worth Konecny bad trade giving up the 24th pick

We are still early days on that one. Check back in 3 years and results will be completely reversed. Wingers can look good on day 1. Defenders need 500 games.

 

[Jojalu]

It was a tough loss. I know it seems like it always happens but it only the 2nd time this year the Leafs have blown a third period lead and lost in regulation. They are usually money closing out games.

As a fan who watches almost every game live, but watches every game overall, as well as 10+ out of market games every week. The Leafs are not in this dire spot a lot seem to think.

All teams, including Boston, TB, St L, Wash, Pitt have poor games or poor stretches but will win more than they lose.

I have watched Bos play over 25 games this year and sometimes can't figure out how we lost to them at all.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Sure, but what they are currently doing is being the 3rd best team in the league. What they did under the old coach was be one of the worst teams in the league. If you can't see that firm divide then thats your issue.

it's not about being unable to see the divide (you'd have to be blind not to see the difference in the players) but it's a full schedule and if the effort and talent were always there then there is no excuse in the world for allowing themselves to be in the position they are currently in (out of a playoff spot)...I agree Babs was the wrong guy to coach this team and I am glad he's gone but these guys are supposed to be professionals and as such should have a certain expectation of themselves as a team...there is only so much you can blame on the coach as in the end the coach never sees the ice in a game...if they miss the playoffs that entire team should be roasted over a fire regardless of how long babs was coach

 

[Nithoniniel]

Yet we’ve been regressing ever since the Washington series. That coincides with the last time Matthews put in defensive effort.

What? Matthews has played probably his best hockey of his career lately from a defensive standpoint.

 

[Nithoniniel]

it's not about being unable to see the divide (you'd have to be blind not to see the difference in the players) but it's a full schedule and if the effort and talent were always there then there is no excuse in the world for allowing themselves to be in the position they are currently in (out of a playoff spot)...I agree Babs was the wrong guy to coach this team and I am glad he's gone but these guys are supposed to be professionals and as such should have a certain expectation of themselves as a team...there is only so much you can blame on the coach as in the end the coach never sees the ice in a game...if they miss the playoffs that entire team should be roasted over a fire regardless of how long babs was coach

They are professionals, but they are also humans. Studies in workplace psychology has shown that workplace management (which would be coaching in hockey) can have a huge effect on both atmosphere and performance. The studies spanned multiple fields, including some high performance ones.

I think that in hockey that's tied to a misconception around 'buying in'. It's not about really putting your mind to doing exactly what the systems require, it's about having a profound belief that what you're told to do is the way to get success. You can put in individual effort, but it's hard to function as more than just individual parts when you don't believe in the collective system.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Who cares the eye test and real outcomes is what counts and Ceci sucks. Im all for analytics its my thing. But when a player sucks a player sucks. Numbers don't make it otherwise results do.

Read that post again...

 

[keonsbitterness]

The turn of events in the 3rd period was a massive disappointment. I'm still upset.

A loss like this by the pre-2016 Leafs would have started the 18-wheeler on its trip over the cliff. Let's hope this squad has the mental toughness to put it behind them quickly.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

They are professionals, but they are also humans. Studies in workplace psychology has shown that workplace management (which would be coaching in hockey) can have a huge effect on both atmosphere and performance. The studies spanned multiple fields, including some high performance ones.

I think that in hockey that's tied to a misconception around 'buying in'. It's not about really putting your mind to doing exactly what the systems require, it's about having a profound belief that what you're told to do is the way to get success. You can put in individual effort, but it's hard to function as more than just individual parts when you don't believe in the collective system.

I hear you Nith, and we've all had bosses we couldn't stand working for...hell I work a dead end job at just above minimum wage and I think my boss is a bit of a tool but it doesn't change the expectations I have for myself in terms of my work performance...much less children who have basically been made millionaires...I get the psychological aspect (i've read a few similar studies) but it doesn't change what you expect from yourself.

I just am not willing to give them that excuse for the situation this team is in...they have a passionate loyal fan base who even when we are ripping on them are behind this team 110%...if you hate your coach play for the fan base, seems pretty simple to me...but I understand what you're saying

Nice to hear from you again, it's been a while since we had a conversation lol

 

[JayfromNB1219]

The turn of events in the 3rd period was a massive disappointment. I'm still upset.

A loss like this by the pre-2016 Leafs would have started the 18-wheeler on its trip over the cliff. Let's hope this squad has the mental toughness to put it behind them quickly.

This team has 200% more skill and ability than those tire fires...no way they go in the tank

 

[ICBM]

I guess that would make Andrew Raycroft one of the best goaltenders in Leafs history?

If stats are so important to you, sign Varlamov. He was cheaper at 6 m.