Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 2-1

[ponder]

Can’t believe we only managed 1 of 6 points on the Cali road trip. These teams suck and we still managed to lose every game :/

 

[fahad203]

Can’t believe we only managed 1 of 6 points on the Cali road trip. These teams suck and we still managed to lose every game :/

There is no backbone. No clutch in this team

Last time anyone was clutch was a guy name Connor Brown who got us into the playoffs and Mch our back up goalie who made the save on Crosby

Our current core don't rise to the occasion, nobody wants to take the take on their back

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Mathews turnovers on Kane and Henrique goals. Ones a back breaker and the other a game winner.

You’re right. Both Marner and Matthews have been too cute with the puck leading to turnovers. So what should a good coach do? Get them off the same damn line, even for awhile.

-Nylander and Campbell were great this game
-Tavares and Marner putrid
-Malgin offers nothing
-Holl and Dermott horrid
-Rest of the team average to below average
-PP a shambles

How you gonna win with this much crap?

 

[Bomber0104]

Mathews turnovers on Kane and Henrique goals. Ones a back breaker and the other a game winner.

But on the plus-side, all that "Matthews for Selke" hype from before the game is looking downright hilarious now

 

[fahad203]

But on the plus-side, all that "Matthews for Selke" hype from before the game is looking downright hilarious now

Matthews has the potential, but he doesn't use his body for anything
Getzlaf was a prime example last night how he plays both ends. He uses his size to really make space for him or stop a cycle

I wonder if Matthews watches other big forwards and tries to learn.

 

[The Apologist]

I don't even know. Every single time we have a little hope they come along and say 'hold my beer'.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Anybody that thinks Keefe is anywhere on the list of problems with this team has lost the plot. Your never going to agree with literally every decision a coach makes but this group is proving that the issue is within them. This isnt even close to a coaching issue. Not even a little bit.

Ehh I'm not sure about that. I'm leery about Keefe's defensive structure. The "swarm" concept just doesn't sit well with me and seems to cause lots of chaos in their own end when the Leafs get scrambling.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Matthews has the potential, but he doesn't use his body for anything

I have no idea how people say stuff like that. Matthews uses his body all the time, just not for hits. Are you honestly trying to say that Matthews doesn't use his size to shield the puck, for example?

 

[The Apologist]

I have no idea how people say stuff like that. Matthews uses his body all the time, just not for hits. Are you honestly trying to say that Matthews doesn't use his size to shield the puck, for example?

I don't get this at all either. He uses his body all the time. He's not someone who's gonna go looking for the hit. It's not his game.

 

[yubbers]

I used to fault AM forn ot using his size but he's been much better at utilizing it this year. Especially to protect the puck on the cycle.

 

[Stephen]

Ehh I'm not sure about that. I'm leery about Keefe's defensive structure. The "swarm" concept just doesn't sit well with me and seems to cause lots of chaos in their own end when the Leafs get scrambling.

Funny that Dallas Eakins used to favour the swarm coming out of the AHL when he started with the Oilers. It's a chaotic minor league tactic that doesn't leave a team in good position to transition up the ice.

 

[fahad203]

I have no idea how people say stuff like that. Matthews uses his body all the time, just not for hits. Are you honestly trying to say that Matthews doesn't use his size to shield the puck, for example?

He actually doesn't use his size on a consistent basis. The anomaly when he does stands out because he does it once in a while
He has done it more this year but he still doesn't use it enough.

Draisatl uses his size really well. Even Malkin who I think is a good comparable for Matthews uses his size along the boards

Again, I am not a fanboy of Getzlaf but I like the way he plays. He was a good example how he uses his size and it was very evident last night

 

[Stephen]

I have no idea how people say stuff like that. Matthews uses his body all the time, just not for hits. Are you honestly trying to say that Matthews doesn't use his size to shield the puck, for example?

For a big man he doesn't use his size nearly enough to his advantage. Even when you compare him to high end skill big men like Sundin, Barkov and Draisaitl, you'll notice those guys generate a ton of momentum by going in hard straight lines, dropping the shoulder or kicking out the hip to drive into a crowd and just taking up as much space when they're out there. That has the advantage of backing off the D, giving more breathing room to maneuver. But you'll notice Matthews will still handle the puck to make a finesse move more often than not and usually does not drive to the inside.

When you actually see him lean into a guy or reverse hit a guy, which he has done more of this winter, it's noticeable. Like "oh he found his actual superpower."

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I do appreciate the Leafs finding new ways to lose. Who would've thought our goaltending and defense would be good and our offense would completely disappear?

 

[hoglund]

Can’t believe we only managed 1 of 6 points on the Cali road trip. These teams suck and we still managed to lose every game :/

These teams sucked, but their goalies got hot.

 

[hoglund]

Anaheim deserved to win.

Poor offensive execution the entire game. Only Nylander showed up.

Everyone else was subpar.

Campbell was pretty good too.

 

[Boxscore]

If work ethic is a skill, then it can be improved.

Work ethic is often confused with working smart--it's a complicated area. What I see with this version of the Leafs is that they use up energy (work) but tend to get very frustrated when their energy doesn't get them the results they want. An example of this is Marner and Matthews trying to over-stickhandle or make high-risk, no-look passes that result in rushes the other way. The players are using energy (working) but they are not working smart. I don't think anyone on the Leafs is "lazy" or just "mails it in"--but they are convinced they can just win on talent alone and they don't want to do the dirty and uncomfortable things it takes to crunch out wins.

And this is obvious because it's exactly why Babcock was fired--because he demands his "stars" roll up their sleeves and get dirty when needed. It's how he won in Detroit--Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall and gang did all the things asked of them--the Toronto kids ultimately refused and tuned him out--they were convinced they could win "their way." They refused with Babcock and they are refusing with Keefe.

I blame Shanahan and Dubas for this--where is all the veteran leadership? Where are the players on this team who won Cups? Who are the vets on this team that the young kids could look up to and learn from? Where are the vets who can pull Marner aside and tell him to cut out of the fancy crap--but a vet that Marner will respect and listen to? There are none. They have Spezza, but he never won squat, is/was as soft as they come, and he's a weird cat personality wise--he's not a veteran leader with chops and war stories.

The Pens, Kings, Hawks, Bruins all had them. When Sid and Geno were young, every year the Pens management surrounded them with different veterans to learn from--Lemieux, then Guerin, then Hossa, then Recchi, etc. One after the other, the Pens kept bringing these guys in. The closest the Leafs had to this were Marleau and Hainsey. Who do they have now?

 

[biotk]

You’re right. Both Marner and Matthews have been too cute with the puck leading to turnovers. So what should a good coach do? Get them off the same damn line, even for awhile.

-Nylander and Campbell were great this game
-Tavares and Marner putrid
-Malgin offers nothing
-Holl and Dermott horrid
-Rest of the team average to below average
-PP a shambles

How you gonna win with this much crap?

Pretty much. The PP is interesting. This team went from two consecutive years of having the second most lethal PP in the league (2016 - 2018) to having a slightly better than average PP for the next 2 years. The change matches exactly with when they went from having two PP units that were essentially equally strong, but played completely different systems, with the more rested unit starting and with both splitting the minutes evenly to having one stacked PP unit and a second unit that comes on in the last couple seconds when it is almost hopeless to try to accomplish anything. And yet despite it being obvious that this change has resulted in much poorer results they have never gone back to the two strong units getting roughly even ice time format. The team - meaning most likely their highly paid stars - have put individual point production ahead of team success.

The previous method was harder to predict and harder to play against (if you were the top PK unit you couldn't just plan around facing one unit, but instead had to plan against two units - either one of which could start - and which both played completely differently). The current method is easy to predict and easy to play against.

 

[egd27]

There is no backbone. No clutch in this team

Last time anyone was clutch was a guy name Connor Brown who got us into the playoffs and Mch our back up goalie who made the save on Crosby

Our current core don't rise to the occasion, nobody wants to take the take on their back

I agree that we need more of that, but to be fair, Kappy's had a couple of "clutch" moments.

 

[The CyNick]

I am sure a lot of TML are just numb right now. We take all 6 points in must win games against some top notch teams. We build our lead up to 6 points and Florida continues to stumble. All is right with the world.

A pivot trip out west against a bunch of bottom feeders with nothing but lottery aspirations and all come out to play against this sad sack of a team. There seems to be zero fight in our player and the only ones who show up are Nylander, Andersen and Campbell. We walk away with 1point out of 6 and at times looked like there is no drive for them to lock up their playoff picture.

If we are lucky enough to make the playoffs we are likely to get bounced in the first round when we should be expecting ECF or bust IMO. This core needs a shake up, we are the EDM Oilers of the east. A bunch of talented high end players who don’t know what it takes to win and have been given the keys to the kingdom without earning anything.

Truly a sad time to be a TML fan.

Oilers are a hard working team. They have an experienced coach and a GM with an excellent track record. Nobody expected them to be in the playoffs, now they could be in a conference final. Amazing turn around.

 

[The CyNick]

Work ethic is often confused with working smart--it's a complicated area. What I see with this version of the Leafs is that they use up energy (work) but tend to get very frustrated when their energy doesn't get them the results they want. An example of this is Marner and Matthews trying to over-stickhandle or make high-risk, no-look passes that result in rushes the other way. The players are using energy (working) but they are not working smart. I don't think anyone on the Leafs is "lazy" or just "mails it in"--but they are convinced they can just win on talent alone and they don't want to do the dirty and uncomfortable things it takes to crunch out wins.

And this is obvious because it's exactly why Babcock was fired--because he demands his "stars" roll up their sleeves and get dirty when needed. It's how he won in Detroit--Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall and gang did all the things asked of them--the Toronto kids ultimately refused and tuned him out--they were convinced they could win "their way." They refused with Babcock and they are refusing with Keefe.

I blame Shanahan and Dubas for this--where is all the veteran leadership? Where are the players on this team who won Cups? Who are the vets on this team that the young kids could look up to and learn from? Where are the vets who can pull Marner aside and tell him to cut out of the fancy crap--but a vet that Marner will respect and listen to? There are none. They have Spezza, but he never won squat, is/was as soft as they come, and he's a weird cat personality wise--he's not a veteran leader with chops and war stories.

The Pens, Kings, Hawks, Bruins all had them. When Sid and Geno were young, every year the Pens management surrounded them with different veterans to learn from--Lemieux, then Guerin, then Hossa, then Recchi, etc. One after the other, the Pens kept bringing these guys in. The closest the Leafs had to this were Marleau and Hainsey. Who do they have now?

If you look at the roster that Lou left us with, it was a healthy mix of veterans and young stars. A mix of grit and skill. Leaders and people who needed to be led. Dubas didn't value any of that, so he got rid of all the grit, vets and leaders and replaced them either young guys or players with no work ethic who don't know how to win. That gap was painfully evident during this trip.

 

[Stephen]

Work ethic is often confused with working smart--it's a complicated area. What I see with this version of the Leafs is that they use up energy (work) but tend to get very frustrated when their energy doesn't get them the results they want. An example of this is Marner and Matthews trying to over-stickhandle or make high-risk, no-look passes that result in rushes the other way. The players are using energy (working) but they are not working smart. I don't think anyone on the Leafs is "lazy" or just "mails it in"--but they are convinced they can just win on talent alone and they don't want to do the dirty and uncomfortable things it takes to crunch out wins.

And this is obvious because it's exactly why Babcock was fired--because he demands his "stars" roll up their sleeves and get dirty when needed. It's how he won in Detroit--Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall and gang did all the things asked of them--the Toronto kids ultimately refused and tuned him out--they were convinced they could win "their way." They refused with Babcock and they are refusing with Keefe.

I blame Shanahan and Dubas for this--where is all the veteran leadership? Where are the players on this team who won Cups? Who are the vets on this team that the young kids could look up to and learn from? Where are the vets who can pull Marner aside and tell him to cut out of the fancy crap--but a vet that Marner will respect and listen to? There are none. They have Spezza, but he never won squat, is/was as soft as they come, and he's a weird cat personality wise--he's not a veteran leader with chops and war stories.

The Pens, Kings, Hawks, Bruins all had them. When Sid and Geno were young, every year the Pens management surrounded them with different veterans to learn from--Lemieux, then Guerin, then Hossa, then Recchi, etc. One after the other, the Pens kept bringing these guys in. The closest the Leafs had to this were Marleau and Hainsey. Who do they have now?

The major concern I had with getting rid of Babcock at the time is even if you hated his in game tactics and general personality, his message was always correct. It's like giving the room over to a substitute teacher.

 

[Boxscore]

like Babs we saw the same old, same old, that was one of my major sore points with Babs.

All on Keefe, like it was Babs.

All a coach can do in today's NHL is teach, lead and try to motivate--but at the end of the day the players have to want to listen, conform and execute.

The Flyers are my favorite team but the Leafs are my second favorite, so these are the teams I've watched the most over the years--the Flyers going back to the 70s and Leafs going back to the mid-80s with Wendel, Iafrate and co.

Using the Flyers as an example--they are playing 100% better under Vigneault and his staff than they were under Hackstol (whom I have zero idea why the Leafs hired him as an assistant BTW). The core of the team is still the same, yet their play is night and day better--it's for one simple reason--they bought into what the coach was selling and they are executing his plan to precision. The current Flyers are doing all of the little things to win games--but they are often as boring as wallpaper to watch! The Leafs, on the other hand, are among the most exciting teams to watch in the league (along with the Avs) but it's crystal clear their game is flawed and they try to win by playing shinny hockey.

Until the core of star players are willing to accept that they can't "win their way" and are willing to TRULY listen to a coach and do what they are told--they will show flashes of brilliance yet lose out at the end of the day. Elite skill just isn't enough--ask Tampa Bay who got swept by Columbus last season.

The Leafs could have Scotty Bowman behind the bench but it won't matter if the players continue to just do what they want.

 

[Clark4Ever]

The major concern I had with getting rid of Babcock at the time is even if you hated his in game tactics and general personality, his message was always correct. It's like giving the room over to a substitute teacher.

Babcock had to go regardless, but now that a lot of the same warts have been exposed under Keefe, hopefully Dubas will realize that the current roster construction is flawed and make the necessary adjustments in the off season.

 

[Fainting Couch]

These teams sucked, but their goalies got hot.

Just like Carolina! Damn those hot goalies.