Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 2-1

[JerseyMike34]

Lou made the p***y team for Babcock. Check every move Dubas did. You will be surprised.

But you already made up your mind to blame the wrong guy.

History of hockey trades by general manager Kyle Dubas - NHL Trade Tracker

Looks like he's still just tinkering with the Marlies roster.

 

[ULF_55]

History of hockey trades by general manager Kyle Dubas - NHL Trade Tracker

Looks like he's still just tinkering with the Marlies roster.

tavares
Matthew's
nylander
rielly
muzzin
andersen
campbell
Hyman
kapanen
...
demott
liljegren
sandin
johnsson
mikheyev
...
scramble other pieces
...
what pieces do you want to change going forward?

 

[Rogie]

Work ethic is often confused with working smart--it's a complicated area. What I see with this version of the Leafs is that they use up energy (work) but tend to get very frustrated when their energy doesn't get them the results they want. An example of this is Marner and Matthews trying to over-stickhandle or make high-risk, no-look passes that result in rushes the other way. The players are using energy (working) but they are not working smart. I don't think anyone on the Leafs is "lazy" or just "mails it in"--but they are convinced they can just win on talent alone and they don't want to do the dirty and uncomfortable things it takes to crunch out wins.

And this is obvious because it's exactly why Babcock was fired--because he demands his "stars" roll up their sleeves and get dirty when needed. It's how he won in Detroit--Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall and gang did all the things asked of them--the Toronto kids ultimately refused and tuned him out--they were convinced they could win "their way." They refused with Babcock and they are refusing with Keefe.

I blame Shanahan and Dubas for this--where is all the veteran leadership? Where are the players on this team who won Cups? Who are the vets on this team that the young kids could look up to and learn from? Where are the vets who can pull Marner aside and tell him to cut out of the fancy crap--but a vet that Marner will respect and listen to? There are none. They have Spezza, but he never won squat, is/was as soft as they come, and he's a weird cat personality wise--he's not a veteran leader with chops and war stories.

The Pens, Kings, Hawks, Bruins all had them. When Sid and Geno were young, every year the Pens management surrounded them with different veterans to learn from--Lemieux, then Guerin, then Hossa, then Recchi, etc. One after the other, the Pens kept bringing these guys in. The closest the Leafs had to this were Marleau and Hainsey. Who do they have now?

Nice post, good thoughts. I agree with most of what you say, I don't blame anyone, I think the young ones have to figure it out - how to work harder - on their own, sure the right guidance is important, and leadership from some veteran guys might help and even be necessary. How do you know in advance when you draft these guys, who is going to have the right work ethic and who is not. Isn't that like the 64 million dollar question. Almost all of the players that make it to this level, I always thought, must be competitive and 'driven' players to begin with, the thousands and thousands of hours of practice and thinking about almost nothing but hockey for most of their young lives; at least that is how it was for me. Clifford and Muzzin have some cups between them, so, they do have those guy now.

 

[Rogie]

Mike had his faults--all coaches do--even Scotty Bowman. But Mike also knows what it takes to win. You are right, however, he was stubborn--but so were/are his players. Mike was stubborn in thinking his way could eventually result in a parade (it has worked before) and the players were stubborn in thinking their style of play was needed (they are snot-nosed kids who never accomplished squat in the NHL). At the end of the day, neither the coach nor players caved and the players won out. Enter Keefe--a young coach who thinks just like Dubas--willing to give the kids tons of leash to play "their game." Look how that is turning out.

IMO, the core personalities in the room cannot handle a taskmaster like Babcock, Gallant, Laviolette or Torts. But I am also convinced they cannot improve under a young, progressive cerebral type like Keefe or Hakstol. So, you roll the dice on someone like Boudreau (as you suggested) or you shoot a warning shot through the core and trade a Nylander, Marner or Tavares (if possible) for a Matt Tkachuk/Sean Couturier type player who will run through a brick wall for their coach and teammates.

The more I watch this team, the more I think the core needs a shake-up. Can't have that much salary tied up in the same type of players.

I do agree with a lot of what you say, I TOTALLY agree with the part about needing some guys who are willing to go through a brick wall for their teammates. Perfectly said.

But, maybe it's not or doesn't have to be like a QUANTUM LEAP kind of thing. With Clifford on board, maybe, slowly, and steadily, we just become a little bit tougher, and a little bit tougher, a few more hits, here and there, the occassional fight here and there (which we finally witnessed) and few HARDER checks here and there, and then slowly, the team starts looking like a team that cares about each other more, and plays with a bit more courage (as Ferraro recently alluded to). I like that term, 'courage', if they had some more courage, it's not like they have to take guys into the boards every shift and be constantly intimidating the opponent, but, just having more courage, in the corners, along the boards, when they get in some traffic, etc etc etc.

All of this might happen, but, maybe it doesn't happen overnight, maybe for some of the young guys, they can learn it, maybe not, it's my hope anyways ...

 

[hobarth]

So just was it that Keefe was doing? I didn’t see anything but the same terrible system. Dubas and his boy looking like they are about to show their warts. Keefe’s system is maddening and I haven’t seen this supposed change at all. ????

I don't know if Keefe is directing them to play as they are or if they're simply falling into old Babsian ingrained habits.

What they are still doing is having the d pinch, a definite no no with Babs except for Rielly.

When TO was winning and Keefe was new, TO was attacking the puck everywhere, 1 and even 2 would chase the puck, that required enthusiasm and energy which TO had in abundance. Of course this left TO vulnerable and TO did pay sometimes but it was a primary reason TO could win. Over time I noticed TO went back to the passive box strategy on the PK, giving the opposition lot's of time and space on the outside which is the strategy I think has made TO such a bad PKing team. That same strategy is now how TO is defending 5v5 and with the same results.

TO is a team blessed with significant speed and should be exploiting that strength at all times, motion not on the heels defensive posturing is how TO wins and dominates. The PP is falling into the same old habits, nobody is moving, they're all standing still waiting for the puck, all on the outside so TO moves the puck very slowly and is easy to defend against.

 

[Maple Leaf]

It's not too late to get rid of dubas and hire lou and babcock

 

[therealkoho]

Very disappointing ...

Marner in his post game press conference after the game message to his teammates after this disastrous road trip is to stay off of social media.

I wouldn't want to read all the needless negativity and horsepuckey spewed by people who don't have clue number one about what's going on with the team.

Imagine reading over and over and over again how useless you are at your chose profession by someone who has zero competence or any idea how to do what it is you do.

 

[Nithoniniel]

It's not too late to get rid of dubas and hire lou and babcock

Go take a look at what Islanders fans are saying about Lou, and how that team is doing.

It is way, way too late to hire Babcock back. He's done. Good riddance.

 

[Al14]

Even the lowly f***ing Ottawa Senators can beat a California team. Our Leafs SUCK!

 

[Boxscore]

Go take a look at what Islanders fans are saying about Lou, and how that team is doing.

It is way, way too late to hire Babcock back. He's done. Good riddance.

Lou has done a good job with the Isles--brought in a coach with big-time chops in Trotz--fresh off a Cup win. The team is exciting and playing well. His biggest test will come this offseason with Barzel. Teams will be lining up to sheet that kid and Lou will need to get him locked up long-term... he is their franchise.

 

[Leafs1991]

Lou has done a good job with the Isles--brought in a coach with big-time chops in Trotz--fresh off a Cup win. The team is exciting and playing well. His biggest test will come this offseason with Barzel. Teams will be lining up to sheet that kid and Lou will need to get him locked up long-term... he is their franchise.

The fact that all everyone mentions is that he hired Trotz and has done nothing else shows the impact he has had on that team.

 

[81Leafs50]

This just sounds insane. We just had that and this team is going around in circles and can't compete at a high level with any consistency. It's so fundamentally flawed and it's the group or their attitude. Basically Dubas built a highly flawed hockey team that has been for the most part unwatchable this season.

It's a freaking joke, the Leafs team under Dubas is a joke that will never ever win.

The players listened to Mike. The Leafs also made the playoffs 3 years in a row, broke the record for most points and wins in a season.

But once they fizzled in the playoffs in multiple years, the players stopped listening. How long can you listen to something that is providing results?

So stop with the sob story about the team going in circles. Mike Babcock had the entire organization buying in but he messed up.

 

[thewave]

The players listened to Mike. The Leafs also made the playoffs 3 years in a row, broke the record for most points and wins in a season.

But once they fizzled in the playoffs in multiple years, the players stopped listening. How long can you listen to something that is providing results?

So stop with the sob story about the team going in circles. Mike Babcock had the entire organization buying in but he messed up.

It's the group that doesn't work hard. They cried like babies about money and now they get hit a few times and they give up entirely. It's a team of overpaid babies. That's the real problem, so now it Keefe right? Anything but the real cause of the problem, Dubas. He let them grow their hair and run wild and they did. Discipline gets results.

 

[Boxscore]

The fact that all everyone mentions is that he hired Trotz and has done nothing else shows the impact he has had on that team.

He hired Trotz, signed Lee, traded for--and extended--Pageau, and by all indications has an agreement in principle for Ilya Sorokin to come over to North America next year. If he can extend Barzal and possibly add another decent player, the Isles will be on their way. I think Sorokin can make an immediate impact, similar to Hart, Samsonov and Shesterkin.