Rumor: Leafs interested in Bert + DET interested in Hyman? 1st post updated

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Which Bertuzzi would we be getting back next season? Same old scrappy dynamic Bert? Or back surgery "mostly" worked, non-contact, lost his edge Bert?

That's the 50 million dollar question.

 

[Holden Caufield]

Mitch Marner is a 24 year-old star, why are people proposing trades for him for Tyler Bertuzzi?

Only thing more shocking than the Marner proposals are the Morgan Reilly proposals… In what world ??

I don’t doubt the Leafs might be sniffing around with Offers of their ‘top’ prospects. But don’t think those guys would entice us at all

 

[Winger98]

Marner has been solidly productive playing with Auston Matthews. Detroit has NOBODY of that caliber, and so you get an 80-90 point PLAYMAKING winger playing with a top 5 NHL center on a high octane, offense-first team to playing with a top 45 (maybe) center on a defense-first bottom feeder team. Marner's production would take a shit in Detroit. You'd be paying $10 mil for $6 mil of offensive production. Maybe even worse.

It'd be great for Toronto to trade him. I hope it's not to us though.

Matthews has been solidly productive playing with Marner, too.

If you want to get away from being a team that sits back in a shell and plays a more aggressive game then a guy like Marner would be a big help. Might his production dip a bit in Detroit? Maybe, but I don't think you're going to see him be a 45 point guy in Detroit, and he'd be a big help in getting guys like Zadina, Raymond, Berggren, Vrana, etc. better looks in the offensive zone.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I doubt we could get Rielly 1:1, but I'd pull that trigger if we could.

(below posted on Trade Board)
While the Leafs may have a few decent pieces: Sandin, Robertson, Amirov, 1sts ('21/'22) only Sandin checks our Needs box. We're flush with wingers on the roster & in the system. While Robertson may be an upgrade on some, possibly Amirov TBD, they're not young projected Top6C's/ Top4D's.

Bert is a unique player whose value us much greater than his counting stats, GM's & most fans know this. (look at Hyman).

So a futures package of: LD Sandin + 1st ('21/'22-DET chooses) + Amirov (prefer Robertson) + Mikheyev + Kerfoot?/Cap Dump to fit cap.

for

Bertuzzi (signed/extended to a team friendly deal)
DET 2nd

this Top6 would scare the sh*t outta most teams:
Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Bertuzzi-Tavares-Nylander

 

[DatsyukianDekes13]

I doubt we could get Rielly 1:1, but I'd pull that trigger if we could.

(below posted on Trade Board)
While the Leafs may have a few decent pieces: Sandin, Robertson, Amirov, 1sts ('21/'22) only Sandin checks our Needs box. We're flush with wingers on the roster & in the system. While Robertson may be an upgrade on some, possibly Amirov TBD, they're not young projected Top6C's/ Top4D's.

Bert is a unique player whose value us much greater than his counting stats, GM's & most fans know this. (look at Hyman).

So a futures package of: LD Sandin + 1st ('21/'22-DET chooses) + Amirov (prefer Robertson) + Mikheyev + Kerfoot?/Cap Dump to fit cap.

for

Bertuzzi (signed/extended to a team friendly deal)
DET 2nd

this Top6 would scare the sh*t outta most teams:
Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Bertuzzi-Tavares-Nylander

Leafs would be trading for Bert knowing they lose Hyman.

"LD Sandin + 1st ('21/'22-DET chooses) + Amirov (prefer Robertson)" ........ thats waaay to much to ask for. Realistically only getting one of those three pieces. Best case is 2022 1st+Amirov, but I doubt Dubas does that. Sandin is likely untouchable.

People have unrealistic expectations for this potential Bert deal. Our return is likely similar to the Kapanen deal (Bert is better, but the Leafs got a great return and Kap is younger with control), maybe slightly more

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Matthews has been solidly productive playing with Marner, too.

If you want to get away from being a team that sits back in a shell and plays a more aggressive game then a guy like Marner would be a big help. Might his production dip a bit in Detroit? Maybe, but I don't think you're going to see him be a 45 point guy in Detroit, and he'd be a big help in getting guys like Zadina, Raymond, Berggren, Vrana, etc. better looks in the offensive zone.

I don't think he'd be a 45 point guy, but he's getting paid $10 mil a year which is top 10 forward money. My argument is that he would probably produce 20-25% less while not providing anything defensively. Will he help our powerplay? Definitely. Will he give us a boost at 5 on 5? Maybe, probably. We don't have good puckmoving D on the team save for Seider who hasn't even played a game yet.

When he gets the puck in the offensive zone Marner is very creative but I never came away from a Leafs game with the impression that Marner was the guy primarily responsible for moving the puck into the offensive zone. We really need puck transporters on this team.

 

[MBH]

Unless nylander or marner were returning as part of a Bertuzzi pckg(Washington's 1st plus a prospect) the Leafs have nothing of any real value to us.

Lousy prospect pool
No picks themselves
Or older dmen who dont fit our timeline

Leafs prospects I like:

Amirov
Hirvonen
Ovchinnikov
Sandin
Liljegren


Another kid I like

Semyon Der-Arguschinstev
Remind you of anyone?

As for any players in their organization...
Marner? Maybe.
Nylander? Yep.
I like Mikheyev a lot, too.

Some kind of deal around
Nylander, Mikheyev, Sandin, Der-Arguschinstev
for
Bertuzzi, Fabbri, Cholowski?

 

[Winger98]

I don't think he'd be a 45 point guy, but he's getting paid $10 mil a year which is top 10 forward money. My argument is that he would probably produce 20-25% less while not providing anything defensively. Will he help our powerplay? Definitely. Will he give us a boost at 5 on 5? Maybe, probably. We don't have good puckmoving D on the team save for Seider who hasn't even played a game yet.

When he gets the puck in the offensive zone Marner is very creative but I never came away from a Leafs game with the impression that Marner was the guy primarily responsible for moving the puck into the offensive zone. We really need puck transporters on this team.

Fair enough, but to be clear you're still talking about a nearly 70 point wing (25% of 90) on a team where we're saying he wouldn't be getting much help. I'm not really pushing for or against moving Bert for Marner, though I think it dos significantly help us. I'm more just saying that I think Toronto comes out a winner if they can turn Marner into two guys of Bert's caliber. Maybe they deal him for someone like Bert, are able to re-sign Hyman, and have some extra money to throw somewhere else on top of that.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Fair enough, but to be clear you're still talking about a nearly 70 point wing (25% of 90) on a team where we're saying he wouldn't be getting much help. I'm not really pushing for or against moving Bert for Marner, though I think it dos significantly help us. I'm more just saying that I think Toronto comes out a winner if they can turn Marner into two guys of Bert's caliber. Maybe they deal him for someone like Bert, are able to re-sign Hyman, and have some extra money to throw somewhere else on top of that.

I think that Toronto dealing Marner at all is kind of a loss for them unless they're dealing Marner for Seth Jones or a defenseman of that caliber. That also frees up money, and it allows them to deal Morgan Reilly to a team with a surplus at forward and also re-sign Hyman.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I could see a Marner deal in an effort to fix what they're told is a weakness.. similar to Edmonton dealing Hall for Larsson.

 

[TCNorthstars]

I doubt we could get Rielly 1:1, but I'd pull that trigger if we could.

(below posted on Trade Board)
While the Leafs may have a few decent pieces: Sandin, Robertson, Amirov, 1sts ('21/'22) only Sandin checks our Needs box. We're flush with wingers on the roster & in the system. While Robertson may be an upgrade on some, possibly Amirov TBD, they're not young projected Top6C's/ Top4D's.

Bert is a unique player whose value us much greater than his counting stats, GM's & most fans know this. (look at Hyman).

So a futures package of: LD Sandin + 1st ('21/'22-DET chooses) + Amirov (prefer Robertson) + Mikheyev + Kerfoot?/Cap Dump to fit cap.

for

Bertuzzi (signed/extended to a team friendly deal)
DET 2nd

this Top6 would scare the sh*t outta most teams:
Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Bertuzzi-Tavares-Nylander

I think you need to head back from your lunch break.

 

[Holden Caufield]

I think Toronto comes out a winner if they can turn Marner into two guys of Bert's caliber. Maybe they deal him for someone like Bert, are able to re-sign Hyman, and have some extra money to throw somewhere else on top of that.

Interesting you phrase it that way Winger.
Have you heard all the Taylor Hall/Leafs rumours last couple of days? Apparantly they are hot and heavy for him.

If they trade for Bertuzzi (Sign him to around 4M) and sign UFA Hall to a 7M per deal…. That would coincidentally be right round Marner’s cap hit. So they may look at it as a 2 for 1.

Leafs still wouldn’t be getting fair trade value. So How else could we help their agenda?

Leafs have no draft capital in 2021 (3 picks - 2nd, 5th and 6th). We could restore their draft to like new condition and still have extra picks for ourselves.

TRADE;
Bertuzzi + 1st(22nd OA) + 3rd (2021)+ 4th(2021)
For
Marner

Leafs Look at it as Bertuzzi + Hall + Saved 2021 draft
For Marner

For us…. The value basically becomes;
Vrana and Marner for Mantha and Bertuzzi.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Interesting you phrase it that way Winger.
Have you heard all the Taylor Hall/Leafs rumours last couple of days? Apparantly they are hot and heavy for him.

If they trade for Bertuzzi (Sign him to around 4M) and sign UFA Hall to a 7M per deal…. That would coincidentally be right round Marner’s cap hit. So they may look at it as a 2 for 1.

Leafs still wouldn’t be getting fair trade value. So How else could we help their agenda?

Leafs have no draft capital in 2021 (3 picks - 2nd, 5th and 6th). We could restore their draft to like new condition and still have extra picks for ourselves.

Bertuzzi + 1st(22nd OA) + 3rd (2021)+ 4th(2021)
For
Marner

Leafs Look at it as Bertuzzi + Hall + Saved 2021 draft.

For us…. The value basically becomes;
Vrana and Marner for Mantha and Bertuzzi.

No way SY trades 1st+3rd+4th+Bert for a $10.9M Marner (soft & weak w/playoff excuses & tik-tok videos)

Bert (signed/extended to team friendly deal, ~$4.5/5yrs)
3rd

for

Marner. That addl. ~$6M+ goes a Long Way to help the Leafs roster.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I believe in Yzerman’s ability to get a great return for lil Bert

 

[Retire91]

I don't think Bert is a long term core player for this team. He's a 2nd liner that may score low 1st line numbers (60ish points/82gp) on a better team and those aren't the core guys you build around in this league unless you want to end up a perpetual bubble team or unless they play damn strong defense.

That said, I like Bert and think he's one of our better players. But he's not irreplaceable. I'd give him another year or two as a member of this team before he's moved for an upgrade at another position (defense maybe) or a 1st round pick and/or a prospect.

Yeah I think you are right, although I consider Bert core he is "not" irreplaceable. I see him as someone like Holmstrom or McCarty that fills a role but the key is he fills that role really really well. I think he is a fantastic piece to be part of the build but not necessarily a guy you build around. Maybe my definition of core is a little too loose.

 

[Holden Caufield]

No way SY trades 1st+3rd+4th+Bert for a $10.9M Marner (soft & weak w/playoff excuses & tik-tok videos)

Bert (signed/extended to team friendly deal, ~$4.5/5yrs)
3rd

for

Marner. That addl. ~$6M+ goes a Long Way to help the Leafs roster.

He is a 24 year old Career Point per game player.
Go ask a team about the other 3 guys in the entire league that can make that claim.
They would want Bert and our next 5 1st round picks (Including #6) and I’m not even joking.

Marner is a smart buy low candidate right now for the exact reasons you stated you don’t like him. I actually thought I might have been lowballing.

 

[MBH]

Marner is a good hockey player.
But those 2 huge questions loom.
1) How much would he produce on Detroit?
2) And now, is he still worth $11M or whatever.

What if Marner fall sfrom 1.2 points per game to .9 points per game.

How much are you paying a smallish winger to score .9 points per game?
Is that the best use of $11M?

What if Berggren or Raymond become the same kind of 70-point players but never get paid like a 95-point winger?

If you think Marner is a 94-point winger on Detroit - with the likes of Larkin/Veleno/Rasmussen/ as his center, by all means, go get him.
But if not... you need to think long and hard about giving up anything at all to get him.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Marner is a good hockey player.
But those 2 huge questions loom.
1) How much would he produce on Detroit?
2) And now, is he still worth $11M or whatever.

What if Marner fall sfrom 1.2 points per game to .9 points per game.

How much are you paying a smallish winger to score .9 points per game?
Is that the best use of $11M?

What if Berggren or Raymond become the same kind of 70-point players but never get paid like a 95-point winger?

If you think Marner is a 94-point winger on Detroit - with the likes of Larkin/Veleno/Rasmussen/ as his center, by all means, go get him.
But if not... you need to think long and hard about giving up anything at all to get him.

Pretty much that. Marner is not a $10+ mil player on Detroit. Maybe a 7 or 7.5 when you look at the dollar value of his theoretical production here.

 

[TCNorthstars]

He is a 24 year old Career Point per game player.
Go ask a team about the other 3 guys in the entire league that can make that claim.
They would want Bert and our next 5 1st round picks (Including #6) and I’m not even joking.

Marner is a smart buy low candidate right now for the exact reasons you stated you don’t like him. I actually thought I might have been lowballing.

Marners value is somewhere in the middle of all that. But closer to DatsO's trade.

 

[Killerjas]

Imagine thinking Marner wants to join our rebuilding team

 

[jkutswings]

I think that Toronto dealing Marner at all is kind of a loss for them unless they're dealing Marner for Seth Jones or a defenseman of that caliber. That also frees up money, and it allows them to deal Morgan Reilly to a team with a surplus at forward and also re-sign Hyman.

Interesting. I wonder what would balance a deal of Mitch Marner for Seth Jones...

 

[Holden Caufield]

Imagine thinking Marner wants to join our rebuilding team

What info are you looking at ?
Marner is under contract and doesn’t have any type of protection until 2023.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Anyone thinking we get marner or multiple prospects and a first is out to lunch. The best we could do is probably amirov and their first next year. That would be a solid trade. Id much rather try and trade bert to a different team who can offer more though.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Interesting. I wonder what would balance a deal of Mitch Marner for Seth Jones...

Money aside it's fairly balanced. High scoring top 20 playmaking winger for 1st pair top 20 defenseman. That fixes a need on both teams while creating a hole there as well, but Columbus can start to fill theirs with their 2021 draft pick and Toronto can work out a deal to get another top 6 guy or sign a free agent.

Marner can play with Laine, a true goalscorer. Columbus gets an asset that is locked in for the LONG LONG term on Marner's contract. They also don't run the risk of losing Seth Jones for nothing.

It also frees Toronto up to move Morgan Reilly for another forward to play in their top 6 with Matthews or Tavares. There are always teams selling forwards for D. Vancouver would be one such candidate. Arizona, San Jose, etc.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Anyone thinking we get marner or multiple prospects and a first is out to lunch. The best we could do is probably amirov and their first next year. That would be a solid trade. Id much rather try and trade bert to a different team who can offer more though.

Both the 1st & Amirov and to a lesser degree Robertson are unknown or too unestablished, we're assuming all the risk. I'd rather have at least 1 piece that is semi-established. I think other teams outbid the Leafs return you proposed.