Leafs going forward

[Mess]

Luckily for the Leafs they have their core players now locked up long-term Kessel, Phaneuf, Clarkson, Lupul, JVR.

They only consume a little over $30 mil for those 5 players next year (~ 43%), and with the cap going up to $70 mil that leaves $40 mil for the remaining 15 regulars and 2 spares.

So filling out the roster after the Leafs 5 highest paid players ( 4 x Wingers + 1 D) and making the team cup competitive will take a little creativity but its not impossible as long as their core players carry the team.

 

[Jes5ant]

The problem with insulating Phaneuf is the cap he's eating. If you are going to have a franchise contract, you need to at least be top 10 in your position. Arguably top 5. There needs to be very few holes in his game or be elite in one or two aspects. ie Kessel and his top 5 scoring. Once we had Kessel we needed to wait for our franchise centre. Once you hand that contract out, that is essentially the best player you will have at that position for the length of the contract. It's an all-in move. Teams can afford two franchise player contracts. The leafs will never win a cup with Phaneuf and Kessel as their franchise players.

The Stanley Cup teams reserve one of their two franchise spots for a Centre 90% of the time. Toews, Getzlaf, Bergeron, Crosby, Datsyuk.

You can compete for the cup without a franchise player if you spend wisely on depth. St Louis and LA. A team should be in no rush to hand our their franchise contracts. Be patient.

 

[StevenJHyde]

Which coach? We've had two with basically the same core and Carlyle actually had success. As far as the free agents go, I agree. Now, if only there was money to pay said guy who will want it

Don't get me wrong...
Carlyle has definitely been a step up from Ronnie Wilson, but I think he's taken the team as far as he's going to be able to take them, improvement-wise.

It seems to me that Carlyle has been complacent about making necessary strategic corrections; letting the team play games that would end in Leafs victories despite the Leafs facing WAY more shots than they had on the opposing net-minder throughout the season.
But as long as they were winning games, he felt no need to correct the issue.

That hasn't been the specific problem in the past few losses, but just an example of him losing control of the locker room in my opinion.

 

[Teeder9]

Luckily for the Leafs they have their core players now locked up long-term Kessel, Phaneuf, Clarkson, Lupul, JVR.

They only consume a little over $30 mil for those 5 players next year (~ 43%), and with the cap going up to $70 mil that leaves $40 mil for the remaining 15 regulars and 2 spares.

So filling out the roster after the Leafs 5 highest paid players ( 4 x Wingers + 1 D) and making the team cup competitive will take a little creativity but its not impossible as long as their core players carry the team.

I'm trying to tell myself you're being sarcastic. I'm hopeful it's sarcasm

 

[frankthetank91]

Would NYR do a Lupul for Klein deal? Seems perfect for both sides. If NY has the cap space. We can sure use a cheap, steady defensive RHD. Also shed a lot of cap.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

This clip from 24/7 makes me cringe every time I see it.
And Dion is not going anywhere. You dont go on talking about Dion being the center piece of the team and how well he does and make him the 5th highest paid d-man in the league (he was 8th before) if you plan to ever trade him. And then talk about it being important having cap room to build this fantasy championship team they go on and talk about is laughable seeing the contract Dion was given. With a limited NTC I guess Dions side wanted even more money.
So management must go first and the new guys can come in and buy out Dion or preferably trade him while retaining some of his salary. Because at $7m per year for 7 years, Dion is as untradable as they get. Only Burke would be dumb enough to move anything for him.

 

[Teeder9]

Would NYR do a Lupul for Klein deal? Seems perfect for both sides. If NY has the cap space. We can sure use a cheap, steady defensive RHD. Also shed a lot of cap.

Maybe Franson and Lupul if we keep 2m of Lupul's contract but that means we have no choice but to use Clarkson in a top 6 role, which means we are going to suck again. No matter how you do it, you either need to keep Phaneuf, Lupul, and Clarkson or trade them all

 

[Brown Dog]

I feel that getting rid of Lupul would be a mistake.

I understand the logic of shipping him out:

• Somebody of significance has to be sacrificed for this debacle and it almost certainly won't or can't be Kessel, JVR, Phaneuf, or Clarkson
• Lupul's getting older (will be 31 at start of next season)
• His play has taken a step back this year
• He has been responsible for some defenses lapses and turnovers, which has been the undoing of this team
• He has been productive enough and has a reasonable enough contract that he would be attractive as a trade chip

...however...

• We still need secondary scoring and Lupul has continued to provide that all year (we should be looking at ways to spread the scoring around to support the first line, not eliminate productive secondary players, especially with Raymond and possibly Kulemin/Bolland not likely to return)
• Lupul plays like he cares and has repeatedly expressed that he knows what it means to play for and represent the Leafs (he is not a guy who shies away from the fishbowl element of playing in Toronto and seems to embrace it)
• He is still young enough that we can expect two to four more years of prime-level production
• He was arguably our best player last year and the heart and soul of the team (to the point where many wanted him to be named captain) and is a great bounceback candidate under a new coaching staff

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

I feel that getting rid of Lupul would be a mistake.

I understand the logic of shipping him out:

• Somebody of significance has to be sacrificed for this debacle and it almost certainly won't or can't be Kessel, JVR, Phaneuf, or Clarkson
• Lupul's getting older (will be 31 at start of next season)
• His play has taken a step back this year
• He has been responsible for some defenses lapses and turnovers, which has been the undoing of this team
• He has been productive enough and has a reasonable enough contract that he would be attractive as a trade chip

...however...

• We still need secondary scoring and Lupul has continued to provide that all year (we should be looking at ways to spread the scoring around to support the first line, not eliminate productive secondary players, especially with Raymond and possibly Kulemin/Bolland not likely to return)
• Lupul plays like he cares and has repeatedly expressed that he knows what it means to play for and represent the Leafs (he is not a guy who shies away from the fishbowl element of playing in Toronto and seems to embrace it)
• He is still young enough that we can expect two to four more years of prime-level production
• He was arguably our best player last year and the heart and soul of the team (to the point where many wanted him to be named captain) and is a great bounceback candidate under a new coaching staff

Good post. Lupul is the guy from our flawed core that needs to take the least blame. His work ethic on and off the ice is also something you want to keep around if you are to add new, much younger players to the team. He is not good defensively but for a goal scoring winger he at least could be coached in to a system that is defensively balanced.

 

[frankthetank91]

Maybe Franson and Lupul if we keep 2m of Lupul's contract but that means we have no choice but to use Clarkson in a top 6 role, which means we are going to suck again. No matter how you do it, you either need to keep Phaneuf, Lupul, and Clarkson or trade them all

I'd happily add in Franson if we didn't have to retain any salary. Addition by subtraction.

Phaneuf, Klein, Gunnar, Rielly, Gleason. Still would need one more solid d-man(hopefully trading Gardiner as well)

The offense those two guys bring is just NOT worth what they give up on a nightly basis.

 

[Mess]

Are epic collapses directly linked to epic failed rebuild plans?

We're now in year 6 of the current rebuild, with a team prone to epic failure and one of the weakest defensive teams in the NHL, lacking any sense of leadership and direction.

At what point do you call it a day and pull the plug and start again this time down a different road, or how long do you attempt to repair a problem that appears to be rotten to the core group?.

Pretty depressing to drag your fan base down this road and this is what you end up with, enduring non playoff year after year with little forward progress.

 

[The Legend]

Luckily for the Leafs they have their core players now locked up long-term Kessel, Phaneuf, Clarkson, Lupul, JVR.

They only consume a little over $30 mil for those 5 players next year (~ 43%), and with the cap going up to $70 mil that leaves $40 mil for the remaining 15 regulars and 2 spares.

So filling out the roster after the Leafs 5 highest paid players ( 4 x Wingers + 1 D) and making the team cup competitive will take a little creativity but its not impossible as long as their core players carry the team.

I would advise anyone as upset with the Leafs current season/management as I am to check out capgeek's Armchair GM option. I usually hate this type of post, but it's therapeutic, so here's what I came up with:

1) Gunnar to Florida for a 3rd
2) Kadri and a 3rd for Yakupov and Nurse
3) Sign Stastny, Cammalleri, Niskanen, Stralman
4) Trade Gardiner, Holland for Dubinsky and Jenner (this one's a tad unrealistic possibly )
5) RFA's: Sign D'Amigo, Ashton, Brennan. Let walk: Reimer, Franson,
6) UFA's: Sign Bodie. Let walk: Bolland, Kulemin (sorry Nik), McClement, Ranger, Raymond.





I guessed on the signing amounts for the free agents, and probably am a bit off. Feel free to correct me if you disagree.

That plan would maintain an approximate $3M in cap space. Dubinsky is a FA in the summer of 2015, which frees up $4M more in cap space. Buying out Clarkson is useless this summer - either he improves next season (completely unlikely IMO), or we buy him out for $3M more in net cap savings. That's about $10M minimum - which is where the starting point is for Stamkos in 2016.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

I feel that getting rid of Lupul would be a mistake.

I understand the logic of shipping him out:

• Somebody of significance has to be sacrificed for this debacle and it almost certainly won't or can't be Kessel, JVR, Phaneuf, or Clarkson
• Lupul's getting older (will be 31 at start of next season)
• His play has taken a step back this year
• He has been responsible for some defenses lapses and turnovers, which has been the undoing of this team
• He has been productive enough and has a reasonable enough contract that he would be attractive as a trade chip

...however...

• We still need secondary scoring and Lupul has continued to provide that all year (we should be looking at ways to spread the scoring around to support the first line, not eliminate productive secondary players, especially with Raymond and possibly Kulemin/Bolland not likely to return)
• Lupul plays like he cares and has repeatedly expressed that he knows what it means to play for and represent the Leafs (he is not a guy who shies away from the fishbowl element of playing in Toronto and seems to embrace it)
• He is still young enough that we can expect two to four more years of prime-level production
• He was arguably our best player last year and the heart and soul of the team (to the point where many wanted him to be named captain) and is a great bounceback candidate under a new coaching staff

Lupul is a win now player but he isn't helping us win anything. At best he'd help us just squeeze into the playoffs next year.

Deal him next season and hope for a Pominville type return.

Offensive 2nd line calibar wingers is the easiest position to fill in free agency and with an extra 5.25 to do that with I have no fear of finding another Lupul type impact winger. Last off-season all of Jagr, CMac, Iggy, Alffy, Horton and even a few very useful offfensive centers in Grabo and Roy as UFAs.

This summer Gaborik, Alffy, Iggy, Jagr, Roy, Grabo and some other names are out there.

We need to quit living in fear of not being able to replace secondary pieces like Kaberle or Grabo or CMac or guys like Gunnarson or Lupul and try to sell high on them.

This team needs to take a longer term approach. We can't be fixed in one or probably even two summers.

 

[HellasLEAF]

Lupul absolutely trade-able.

I just have no patience for any player that performs poorly after signing a big contract. This tells you exactly where the players mindset is at and his commitment to winning and to the team.

Not physical anymore. Lacks real hockey IQ at times with his decision making. Not very good defensively. Not to mention injury prone. Starting to see why this guy has been traded a few times.

 

[I am Canadian]

I would advise anyone as upset with the Leafs current season/management as I am to check out capgeek's Armchair GM option. I usually hate this type of post, but it's therapeutic, so here's what I came up with:

1) Gunnar to Florida for a 3rd Why are we trading our most solid D for a 3rd?
2) Kadri and a 3rd for Yakupov and Nurse Edmonton doesn't touch that
3) Sign Stastny, Cammalleri, Niskanen, Stralman This looks like a youth movement why are we overpaying for old players?
4) Trade Gardiner, Holland for Dubinsky and Jenner (this one's a tad unrealistic possibly ) Sure whatever.
5) RFA's: Sign D'Amigo, Ashton, Brennan. Let walk: Reimer, Franson,
6) UFA's: Sign Bodie. Let walk: Bolland, Kulemin (sorry Nik), McClement This team would be even more lost without him, Ranger He has played well why are we dropping him?, Raymond.


View attachment 72147


I guessed on the signing amounts for the free agents, and probably am a bit off. Feel free to correct me if you disagree.

That plan would maintain an approximate $3M in cap space. Dubinsky is a FA in the summer of 2015, which frees up $4M more in cap space. Buying out Clarkson is useless this summer - either he improves next season (completely unlikely IMO), or we buy him out for $3M more in net cap savings. That's about $10M minimum - which is where the starting point is for Stamkos in 2016.

Ummmm

 

[Amadeus]

After much deliberation and thought I've nailed the issues surrounding this team which will give a better idea as to who truly is to blame.

The first thing to keep in mind is that Dave Nonis is the matermind behind this team we're seeing. Regardless of what he inherited from Burke, he was right there with him when majority of our core was acquired. That includes Kessel, Phaneuf, JVR, Bernier and Clarkson.

I've gathered my reasons for this team's flawed structure, and their reason of being sub par in questions and answers.

1. How come last year's team made the playoffs and this year's team didn't?

2 Reasons. Number 1, it was a lockout shortened season. There is no guaranty we'd have made the playoffs if it was full 82 games. Our decline even from the year before the lockout started towards the end of the year and this has become somewhat of a norm with us. Number 2, we were really good in one aspect of the game and that was speed. We had three guys in particular, Leo Komarov, Mikhail Grabovski and Clarke MacArthur who really added to the team speed and assisted in retaining possession because they could at least do something with the puck. This year's team absolutely blows in retaining possession and chases the game for majority of the evenings.

2. What is truly wrong with this team?

The way its built by Nonis. We live and die by our 1st line and any offense that is produced is through the rush and not through the cycle. Phil Kessel is truly not made to play along the boards. He knows that's not his forte and he doesn't even try to get better at it. It takes 3 on the line to cycle the puck so that leads to something and none on that line are particularly gifted at it.
Our 2nd line can not cycle either. David Clarkson really brought that line down. I really haven't seen a worst season had by a player than Clarkson had this year for us. He didn't cycle the puck this season with any efficiency, he didn't go to the front of the net, he didn't generate any offense, or provide any responsible play on the defense either. Kadri and Lupul were absolutely useless when not providing offense. The commitment to get back and help the D was not there from any of our top 2 lines this year save for maybe Bozak, McClement and Kulemin on some nights. This part takes commitment from every single player on the ice and if they're not buying in then there are issues there.
Our 3rd line was missing Bolland for most of the season but even with him in the lineup there was cause for concern with how the team played. There were young players who clearly weren't ready and didn't contribute in any particular area of the game. Our 4th line could contend for being one of the worst in hockey. Gone was the depth that Komarov, Grabo and MacArthur provided in that sense. We weren't great defensively with them in the lineup, but we were far superior offensively which helped.
Our D suffered mainly this season because of a lack of IQ (Franson and Gardiner) and a lack of help from our forwards. I still want Gardiner to be a part of this team moving forward but not Franson. We also need to encourage our D-men to shoot much more often than they do on the PP. We were guilty of making pretty passing plays too much.

3. How do you fix this mess?

Create a program and an identity. It was lacking big time this year and everyone from the coaching staff to the players is to blame. Making radical changes is too easy to just say but this season's drop off was too alarming to just let go that easily. We need to acquire a more defensively responsible C than Nazem Kadri and re-generate our 2nd line with more grit and scoring. I'm a huge advocate for bringing in a guy like Ryan Callahan and giving him the 'C' because not only is he known for his leadership but he also can get players to buy in.

These are few of the moves I'd entertain making.

1. Fire Randy Carlyle and hire Doug Houda as HC

2. Sign Paul Stasny, Marcel Goc, and Ryan Callahan

3. Bring back Leo Komarov

4. Trade Nazem Kadri to Nashville for Roman Josi



JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Stasny - Callahan
Komarov - Holland - Clarkson
McClement - Goc - Carrick
Bodie

Phaneuf - Gunnarson
Josie - Rielly
Gardiner - Geason
Ranger

Bernier
Reimer

 

[Purity*]

Don't get me wrong...
Carlyle has definitely been a step up from Ronnie Wilson, but I think he's taken the team as far as he's going to be able to take them, improvement-wise.

It seems to me that Carlyle has been complacent about making necessary strategic corrections; letting the team play games that would end in Leafs victories despite the Leafs facing WAY more shots than they had on the opposing net-minder throughout the season.
But as long as they were winning games, he felt no need to correct the issue.

That hasn't been the specific problem in the past few losses, but just an example of him losing control of the locker room in my opinion.

WRONG. Carlyle has a better roster and WAY better goal-tending and he just topped Wilson's collapse in 2012. Part of a coach's job is to keep the players fired up and motivated, 90% of this season we've been really inconsistent and started most games with a grandma-like intensity. This certainly wasn't a strength of Wilson either, but his team never had effort-issues like this one does now under Carlyle. Carlyle's minute-distribution is WAY out of wack some nights too, with Jay McClement playing way more minutes than our offensive forwards, even when were down by 1 or 2 goals. It makes ZERO sense.

If Randy isn't fired at the end of the season Timmy Lew needs to take matters into his own hands.

As far as actual roster changes go, I honestly have no idea what to do. Kessel and JVR are great talents on their own, that's a given, but I'm really starting to question Kessel's composure in big games, especially when he starts to get frustrated. I'm more than willing to keep him on the team though, trading him would be a ridiculous knee-jerk move. JVR is definitely a must-keep.

Kadri, Lupul, Gunnar, Gardiner, Gleason, Bozak, Phaneuf, Bolland, Kulemin - I am completely neutral on these guys. If the price is right, trade them off by all means or let em go. However, these players can all have places on a winning team, so asset management is KEY here. If Nonis gets canned then I really hope we bring in someone who is proficient at managing assets.

Franson, Clarkson, Reimer, Orr, Carlyle - GET RID OF THEM NOW.

We need to somehow get this team in this mold: Big top line (we already have that thankfullly), strong two-way line (we definitely don't have that), and a sheltered scoring line (we can have that), and a defensively responsible energy line (we can have that). Defense: Elite two-way pairing (we don't have that), reliable shut-down pairing (we don't have that), PP and PK specialty pairing (we kind of have that.)

See where the holes are?

 

[Bluejaysfan*]

- Hire Wayne Gretzky as team president using Leweike
- Hire Ron Hextall as new GM (ties with Leweike in LA)
- Using Gretzky, Hextall and Leweike, convince Hitchcock to opt out of his contract and coach here

Voila!

 

[Jes5ant]

- Hire Wayne Gretzky as team president using Leweike
- Hire Ron Hextall as new GM (ties with Leweike in LA)
- Using Gretzky, Hextall and Leweike, convince Hitchcock to opt out of his contract and coach here

Voila!

Sounds great.

OT: Do you know any good Blue Jays forum?

 

[rdawg1234]

Lupul is our most tradeable chip for good reason.

Sure he has charisma and a positive attitude, but he's been here through every single collapse, and brings the same kind of game as Raymond, Kadri and Kessel, soft on the boards, soft on defense.

trade him, bring in a d-man. Lupul for Klein+2nd is fair to me. Or Lupul for another 2nd pairing d-man, it fixes a need.

replacing him with a marlie or free agent is our other option.

 

[Teeder9]

After much deliberation and thought I've nailed the issues surrounding this team which will give a better idea as to who truly is to blame.

The first thing to keep in mind is that Dave Nonis is the matermind behind this team we're seeing. Regardless of what he inherited from Burke, he was right there with him when majority of our core was acquired. That includes Kessel, Phaneuf, JVR, Bernier and Clarkson.

I've gathered my reasons for this team's flawed structure, and their reason of being sub par in questions and answers.

1. How come last year's team made the playoffs and this year's team didn't?

2 Reasons. Number 1, it was a lockout shortened season. There is no guaranty we'd have made the playoffs if it was full 82 games. Our decline even from the year before the lockout started towards the end of the year and this has become somewhat of a norm with us. Number 2, we were really good in one aspect of the game and that was speed. We had three guys in particular, Leo Komarov, Mikhail Grabovski and Clarke MacArthur who really added to the team speed and assisted in retaining possession because they could at least do something with the puck. This year's team absolutely blows in retaining possession and chases the game for majority of the evenings.

2. What is truly wrong with this team?

The way its built by Nonis. We live and die by our 1st line and any offense that is produced is through the rush and not through the cycle. Phil Kessel is truly not made to play along the boards. He knows that's not his forte and he doesn't even try to get better at it. It takes 3 on the line to cycle the puck so that leads to something and none on that line are particularly gifted at it.
Our 2nd line can not cycle either. David Clarkson really brought that line down. I really haven't seen a worst season had by a player than Clarkson had this year for us. He didn't cycle the puck this season with any efficiency, he didn't go to the front of the net, he didn't generate any offense, or provide any responsible play on the defense either. Kadri and Lupul were absolutely useless when not providing offense. The commitment to get back and help the D was not there from any of our top 2 lines this year save for maybe Bozak, McClement and Kulemin on some nights. This part takes commitment from every single player on the ice and if they're not buying in then there are issues there.
Our 3rd line was missing Bolland for most of the season but even with him in the lineup there was cause for concern with how the team played. There were young players who clearly weren't ready and didn't contribute in any particular area of the game. Our 4th line could contend for being one of the worst in hockey. Gone was the depth that Komarov, Grabo and MacArthur provided in that sense. We weren't great defensively with them in the lineup, but we were far superior offensively which helped.
Our D suffered mainly this season because of a lack of IQ (Franson and Gardiner) and a lack of help from our forwards. I still want Gardiner to be a part of this team moving forward but not Franson. We also need to encourage our D-men to shoot much more often than they do on the PP. We were guilty of making pretty passing plays too much.

3. How do you fix this mess?

Create a program and an identity. It was lacking big time this year and everyone from the coaching staff to the players is to blame. Making radical changes is too easy to just say but this season's drop off was too alarming to just let go that easily. We need to acquire a more defensively responsible C than Nazem Kadri and re-generate our 2nd line with more grit and scoring. I'm a huge advocate for bringing in a guy like Ryan Callahan and giving him the 'C' because not only is he known for his leadership but he also can get players to buy in.

These are few of the moves I'd entertain making.

1. Fire Randy Carlyle and hire Doug Houda as HC

2. Sign Paul Stasny, Marcel Goc, and Ryan Callahan

3. Bring back Leo Komarov

4. Trade Nazem Kadri to Nashville for Roman Josi



JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Stasny - Callahan
Komarov - Holland - Clarkson
McClement - Goc - Carrick
Bodie

Phaneuf - Gunnarson
Josie - Rielly
Gardiner - Geason
Ranger

Bernier
Reimer

What's the cap hit on this?

 

[Wendigo]

At some point management has to recognize where it's deficient and address it accordingly. There's no draft pick or prospect out there that would "fix" the Leafs. Team leadership is obviously lacking and this latest skid is evidence of how this dimension is lacking in Toronto. What's sad is getting a few veteran players doesn't mean emptying your cupboard; however Nonis didn't budge on trade day. Sometimes that's whats needed to bring a team over the hump.

Everyone remembers when Wendel Clark was traded for Mats Sundin. The Nordiques were rife with talent, building through the draft. No-one denied they had a talented club but they were missing two key items: leadership and goaltending. They bit the bullet, brought in Clark, and suddenly they were contending, and a few years later we're almost a dynasty as the Avs.

The Leafs now have the goaltending (I hope) - but where's the leadership? I think that's the missing ingredient to a playoff team (one that consistently makes it to the playoffs). From there, we can address what's needed to make a contender.

 

[The Legend]

Ummmm

This team would be more lost without McClement? Ranger?

As for Gunnar, couldn't disagree with you more. He's been one of our worst players. Stats and advanced stats back me up...

 

[The Legend]

What's the cap hit on this?

I don't see a way that Reimer returns.

 

[MakeTheIronSing]

the plan should be to stay the course and refrain from doing anything foolish

FOCUS ON DRAFTING, it remains the most effective way to accomplish anything in the cap era

does this mean a lottery pick? absolutely not. it means drafting with a purpose. not simply bpa or ontario born or whatever.

all of this nonsense of trading kadri and gardiner is absolutely foolish and not going to happen.

it also means, against all odds, not rushing prospects. the lightning in a bottle effect is not anything to bank on.

percy, biggs, finn, grannberg, gautier etc. their ceiling remains high IF you don't just rush them to the next level for no reason other than to see if you can catch lightning in a bottle.

stay the course, continue to keep the cycle coming. the goal should be a self-sustaining system within mlse not trading things out.