Leafs going forward

[thewave]

I think the teams in need of a management and coaching overhaul while the player base is fundamentally ok, but needs improvement.

I believe with Nonis and Carlyle sent off the next step would be to replace our captain for non compliance. He failed us last game and again tonight and for that, he should be sent off since his NTC kicks in summer.

Next I think the discussion turns to Clarkson Franson Kules Raymond and where they fit, but before that we need to have a management team that has a compatible system and vision that does not stray to far from our core players otherwise we risk a very very long rebuild (6-10 years) which is not ideal.

Thanks.

Click to read more...

 

[Bardown warrior]

I realize there are tons of coaching candidates in line to replace Carlyle...

But if Nonis was to get the Axe, who replaces him?

 

[ECanuck]

Don't mean to sound condescending but when buildings collapse usually there is something wrong with the core.

This core has collapsed three times now.

Why should we build the next building with the same core?

 

[YearsintheWilderness]

I think the teams in need of a management and coaching overhaul while the player base is fundamentally ok, but needs improvement.

I believe with Nonis and Carlyle sent off the next step would be to replace our captain for non compliance. He failed us last game and again tonight and for that, he should be sent off since his NTC kicks in summer.

Next I think the discussion turns to Clarkson Franson Kules Raymond and where they fit, but before that we need to have a management team that has a compatible system and vision that does not stray to far from our core players otherwise we risk a very very long rebuild (6-10 years) which is not ideal.

Thanks.

I agree with the second bolded statement.

But the first and second bolded statements cannot be reconciled.

Does not compute...

 

[thewave]

I realize there are tons of coaching candidates in line to replace Carlyle...

But if Nonis was to get the Axe, who replaces him?

That's a very good question and the process would take a bit. I think we could find someone with the smarts though. We have the resources and capital to attract just about anyone.

I would look within the Chicago organization first off. Sometimes a GM is made from a strategist who has a solid support team to hammer out the details.

 

[Cor]

I realize there are tons of coaching candidates in line to replace Carlyle...

But if Nonis was to get the Axe, who replaces him?

Ron Hextall
Jeff Gorton
Paul Fenton

are three assistant GM's that deserve a look. Hextall has ties to Leiweke

 

[gamer1035]

I realize there are tons of coaching candidates in line to replace Carlyle...

But if Nonis was to get the Axe, who replaces him?

not only nonis. all our assistant gm's and assistant coachs and scouts and ANYONE else. Hire a guy like Bowman to hire everyone in the organization from the top down.

 

[thewave]

Don't mean to sound condescending but when buildings collapse usually there is something wrong with the core.

This core has collapsed three times now.

Why should we build the next building with the same core?

If we really pick apart these collapses they generally revolve around a few not the group as a whole.

I honestly in not only my heart of hearts but upstairs, believe Dion is insufficient as a leader and both Carlyle and Wilson were just not the right guys to get it done.

I think that Nonis tried to swing the type of team we had toward the type Carlyle wants. This is what Burke did for Wilson and the same results followed. A coherent team could not be formed.

Half and half. They didn't click. Last years team did though

 

[thewave]

not only nonis. all our assistant gm's and assistant coachs and scouts and ANYONE else. Hire a guy like Bowman to hire everyone in the organization from the top down.

I agree with Bowman. I also agree with getting rid of the nepotism in the organization.

They need to overhaul management.

 

[LeafsandSharksfan]

There's no surefire way to build a contender, as Edmonton can attest, so I won't completely **** on Burke and Nonis for the route they took in trying to get there, but I think it's obvious now that it's not going to work with this group. We have to sell high on our players now before they start wanting out and our bargaining position worsens. From there, we can start fresh in assembling a new core, I would hope with an emphasis on center and defense.

Reilly I'd probably hang on to, anyone else is fair game.

Edit: And completely new coaching, management, and scouting, obviously

 

[thewave]

There's no surefire way to build a contender, as Edmonton can attest, so I won't completely **** on Burke and Nonis for the route they took in trying to get there, but I think it's obvious now that it's not going to work with this group. We have to sell high on our players now before they start wanting out and our bargaining position worsens. From there, we can start fresh in assembling a new core, I would hope with an emphasis on center and defense.

Reilly I'd probably hang on to, anyone else is fair game.

Edit: And completely new coaching, management, and scouting, obviously

Think about this.

Kessel a top ten pt getter and sniper

JVR a very young capable winger and former #2 pick

Kadri a player I feel is at odds with the coach

Rielly bright future

Gardiner needs seen in better system

Gunner stable workhorse

Gleason hard nosed workhorse

Lupul passionate but clearly at odds with Randy

Bernier!

Just from that you can certainly work things out. It's not a bad foundation at all.

 

[Dragao6]

I think Nonis shoudl go but the Lefas are in such a bad situation because he just got a extension, Phaneuf just got an extension but needs to go, clarkson with new contract but needs to go and both prob have no trade clause so we stuck. So exactly for leaving us in this situaiton Nonis has to go. As for Carlyle I was a huge fan last year, you could tell the team played a system in short season. This year the team is all over the place and I do blame Carlyle for some of it, specially Reimer's drop in confidence.
Id keep Rielly and Gardiner for sure...they super young and proving to be great so you can build with that, we need to get top 2 D (Ekblad in this years draft woudl be a great start). Gleason could stay as a bottom 2 guy, hes been decent. goaltending we have our Number 1 in Bernier and Id keep our top line obviously. No matter how bad the team as a whole has been this top line has been one of the best lines in the entire league, all 3 players are young and contracts are very attractive, specially for a top line. Mccclemment cna stay in 4th line and bolland all depends on what hes asking. Everyone else can go, franson, gunner, ranger, dion, kulemin, kadri, clarkson, orr, mclaren. Use Holland, Ashton, Levo, D'Amingo more in bottom 2 lines, I like Raymond and bring back Komarov. Drop everyone and maybe go for top 2 C's in 2015 draft...finally needs to be done!!!...It will never happen though in the centre of hockey city so suffering for years to come. I know I wont spend another dime on the Leafs untill I see Dion gone and mayeb Clarkson also!!

Bowman hell yes!!! Ive been preaching that for years!!!

 

[Bill_Crosby*]

They'll eventually have to stop firing coaches/GM's and start holding players accountable for constantly underperforming. To Nonis' credit he has made a lot of good moves since taking over but that Clarkson signing just took the wind out of their sails. Toronto needs more guys like Bolland that play their role, and play it well, but what seems to happen is when guys sign here they think they are Lemieux all of a sudden. It just seems like players just do whatever they want out there (ie. Clarkson toe drags) and there is no buy-in.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

As an outsider looking in. I think the problem is Nonis and not Carlyle. Burke was the right guy. He's going to fix Calgary too. Just you watch.

 

[thewave]

They'll eventually have to stop firing coaches/GM's and start holding players accountable for constantly underperforming. To Nonis' credit he has made a lot of good moves since taking over but that Clarkson signing just took the wind out of their sails. Toronto needs more guys like Bolland that play their role, and play it well, but what seems to happen is when guys sign here they think they are Lemieux all of a sudden. It just seems like players just do whatever they want out there (ie. Clarkson toe drags) and there is no buy-in.

Tim has to make the big decision. I figured with him coming in it meant overhaul. I suppose I was very wrong but, now we'll see how well Tim takes to being embarrassed, and that's how he should feel.

 

[Phil Parent]

Not a Leafs fan, but really, the Leafs are a mystery to me.

Lots of pieces are there... I'm wondering if it could be that the Leafs have become a country club (Similar to the Rangers in the years where they had the likes of Lindros, Bure and Fleury...) where guys making big money can be big stars no matter how they play without giving a damn because heh, guaranteed contracts, hockey crazy city so endorsement deals are aplenty, and no matter how much the die hards hate you if your play sucks, the casual fans will love you because you wear the jersey.

The issue is with a limited number of individuals giving the bad example to the others I feel. Many of you are harsh on Dion Phaneuf, and I'd say he's Exhibit #1 when it comes to that...

 

[Hurt]

Not a Leafs fan, but really, the Leafs are a mystery to me.

Lots of pieces are there... I'm wondering if it could be that the Leafs have become a country club (Similar to the Rangers in the years where they had the likes of Lindros, Bure and Fleury...) where guys making big money can be big stars no matter how they play without giving a damn because heh, guaranteed contracts, hockey crazy city so endorsement deals are aplenty, and no matter how much the die hards hate you if your play sucks, the casual fans will love you because you wear the jersey.

The issue is with a limited number of individuals giving the bad example to the others I feel. Many of you are harsh on Dion Phaneuf, and I'd say he's Exhibit #1 when it comes to that...

I think you've got it wrong. Phaneuf is out there busting his ass everyday. He is the opposite of the country club mentality. Now, is he a 7M D-man? I don't think so but he's the best we have, unfortunately.

 

[ALine]

I don't think we should be looking to trade Phaneuf. He held our defense together for the first few months of the season and has been pretty solid up until the last few weeks. Has definately slowed down, but he's clearly out of gas and making mental mistakes. When your exhausted, the first thing to go is your mind for the game. And he's clearly lost it.

There's been many nights this season he's played 26, 27+ minutes, through back-to-back's and three in five stretches while being by far our most reliable defensmen. I don't think we should be running him out of town after a bad stretch of games.

 

[yubbers]

There is zero down side to getting rid of phaneuf

 

[Duffman955]

We have some very nice pieces, but not a team. They haven't exactly meshed well.

Need a coach to form the collection of pieces into a team, and then we can find out what we are missing.

First job this offseason is new GM, second job is new coach.

 

[frontsfan2005]

Nonis needs to go, that Clarkson signing has got to be one of the worst free agent signings ever. $36,750,000 over seven years for him? Then fans think he's a perennial 30 goal a year scorer when in fact, he's had one season with 18 goals or more? And he's 29 years old, not young at all in hockey terms, especially with the way he plays. This guy will be lucky to score 30 goals in his Leafs career.

It seems the only thing that saves his career is if the Devils fire DeBoer, and Toronto hires him. That's the only coach that Clarkson has ever put up decent offensive numbers with in his entire hockey career (OHL/AHL/NHL), with everyone else, he's a 20-25 point a year player. If DeBoer stays in NJ and Carlyle is canned, the next best thing might be Marlies head coach Steve Spott, who was DeBoer's assistant in Kitchener. Either that, or demote Clarkson to the Marlies where he can reunite with Spott down there.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

There is zero down side to getting rid of phaneuf

I can't see him being moved so soon. Either way, he's going to succeed on whichever team he's traded to. We all know he is a steady defenceman, but is being asked to play a game that doesn't suit him. He isn't a smooth skater nor an adept puck mover, and yet he's playing with a forward core that scores on the rush.

That being said, I wonder if we're going to acquire a PWF centre for JVR and Kessel. If we want to look legitimate, our top line is going to have to be a lot more dynamic. I think Bozak better fits as a #2 than a #1c.

 

[Tak7]

Don't mean to sound condescending but when buildings collapse usually there is something wrong with the core.

This core has collapsed three times now.

Why should we build the next building with the same core?

Simple answer? Because outside of Kessel, you can't change the core.

They are all pretty much locked into long-term deals.

 

[ECanuck]

Simple answer? Because outside of Kessel, you can't change the core.

They are all pretty much locked into long-term deals.

Other than Clarkson you can change the core.

 

[yubbers]

I can't see him being moved so soon. Either way, he's going to succeed on whichever team he's traded to. We all know he is a steady defenceman, but is being asked to play a game that doesn't suit him. He isn't a smooth skater nor an adept puck mover, and yet he's playing with a forward core that scores on the rush.

That being said, I wonder if we're going to acquire a PWF centre for JVR and Kessel. If we want to look legitimate, our top line is going to have to be a lot more dynamic. I think Bozak better fits as a #2 than a #1c.

If Tim goes gang buster this off season, I could see him packaged up