Proposal: Leafs/Flames

[Baksfamous112]

anybody remember 1967?

I was born 22 years later..

 

[Brock Radunske]

Well, I've really enjoyed all of this trash talk, so I'll chime in with a proposal that should register some more 'are you crazy' comments...here goes.

To Calgary: Nylander
To Toronto: Lindholm + Andersson

Not enough to the Leafs.
Hanifin+Anderssen+
For
Nylander

 

[DFF]

Not enough to the Leafs.
Hanifin+Anderssen+
For
Nylander

Again the Flames are not going to kill their defense for a softie that they do not need

 

[QcFlames12]

Came into here with hopes of a solid respectful healthy discussion, leaving here realizing its a war zone of cheap shots and insults..

:p

Dont change HF.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Not enough to the Leafs.
Hanifin+Anderssen+
For
Nylander

Hanifin plays the left side so I wouldn't be interested in this trade.

I also think Hanifin is extremely overrated and will top out as a 2nd pairing PP guy. Makes some of the worst defensive reads I have ever seen. There is a reason Carolina got rid of him so early while he still had increased value due to his draft position. He was also one of the more sheltered defenders in the league last year zone usage wise and QoC wise.

 

[Volica]

Hanifin plays the left side so I wouldn't be interested in this trade.

I also think Hanifin is extremely overrated and will top out as a 2nd pairing PP guy. Makes some of the worst defensive reads I have ever seen. There is a reason Carolina got rid of him so early while he still had increased value due to his draft position. He was also one of the more sheltered defenders in the league last year zone usage wise and QoC wise.

The reason Carolina got 'rid' of him, is because you have to give to get.
This isn't HFBoards where Kapanen and a first get you any player in the league; Carolina traded for Dougie Hamilton, a 25 year old top pairing defenceman who put up a bunch of goals last season with elite possession metrics. What was Calgary going to ask for? Hanifin had by far the most potential and is already a top 4D in the league.

As a note, because I've mentioned this to our board in the past. I deal with Calgary's AGM a lot because I'm involved with the community quite a bit here in Calgary. Craig Conroy, who's still very interconnected with USA Hockey, had a long discussion with me about some of the picks (we were waiting at a golf hole for a solid 15 minutes), prospects and trades they did. The guy says USA hockey brass and people involved in that scene think about as high as you can imagine for Hanifin. They see him as an elite D in the making. I'll take their word over some Jabroni with a magic ball.

The same shit was said about Dougie Hamilton when we got him, and still was being said by fans with no knowledge when we got rid of him.

Just a note. At the same age, Morgan Rielly was actually just entering the league. And at the same age was getting weaker matchups in terms of QoC. Now Leaf fans call him an elite 1D 4 years down the road.

 

[DFF]

Just a note. At the same age, Morgan Rielly was actually just entering the league. And at the same age was getting weaker matchups in terms of QoC. Now Leaf fans call him an elite 1D 4 years down the road.

Good point if Hanifin is bad, Rielly was garbage...on second though Rielly is still bad defensively lol

 

[Ziggdiezan]

The reason Carolina got 'rid' of him, is because you have to give to get.
This isn't HFBoards where Kapanen and a first get you any player in the league; Carolina traded for Dougie Hamilton, a 25 year old top pairing defenceman who put up a bunch of goals last season with elite possession metrics. What was Calgary going to ask for? Hanifin had by far the most potential and is already a top 4D in the league.

As a note, because I've mentioned this to our board in the past. I deal with Calgary's AGM a lot because I'm involved with the community quite a bit here in Calgary. Craig Conroy, who's still very interconnected with USA Hockey, had a long discussion with me about some of the picks (we were waiting at a golf hole for a solid 15 minutes), prospects and trades they did. The guy says USA hockey brass and people involved in that scene think about as high as you can imagine for Hanifin. They see him as an elite D in the making. I'll take their word over some Jabroni with a magic ball.

The same **** was said about Dougie Hamilton when we got him, and still was being said by fans with no knowledge when we got rid of him.

Just a note. At the same age, Morgan Rielly was actually just entering the league. And at the same age was getting weaker matchups in terms of QoC. Now Leaf fans call him an elite 1D 4 years down the road.

How is Hanifin a top 4D? He spent more time on the 3rd pairing than on the 2nd pairing while facing the easiest QoC on the team and getting over 63% of his zone starts in the offensive zone. He has not showed he is a top 4D at all yet.

You can think whatever you want about Hanifin, he certainly has the potential to be a top pairing defender but he isn't close at the moment. I've spoken to many a Carolina fan who were really disappointed with him before the trade and spoke of his pee wee level defensive mistakes.

I would like to see the data you have showing Rielly facing easier QoC than Hanifin, genuinely interested as Hanifin had the easiest QoC on Carolina.

Again not saying Hanifin can't or wont get better, he 100% will. I just haven't been impressed thus and he has some fundamental flaws in his defensive game that need to be fixed.

 

[DFF]

How is Hanifin a top 4D? He spent more time on the 3rd pairing than on the 2nd pairing while facing the easiest QoC on the team and getting over 63% of his zone starts in the offensive zone. He has not showed he is a top 4D at all yet.

You can think whatever you want about Hanifin, he certainly has the potential to be a top pairing defender but he isn't close at the moment. I've spoken to many a Carolina fan who were really disappointed with him before the trade and spoke of his pee wee level defensive mistakes.

I would like to see the data you have showing Rielly facing easier QoC than Hanifin, genuinely interested as Hanifin had the easiest QoC on Carolina.

Again not saying Hanifin can't or wont get better, he 100% will. I just haven't been impressed thus and he has some fundamental flaws in his defensive game that need to be fixed.

Bill Peters who is known for developing dmen and his old coach, supported trading for him.
Unless Peters is a moron, Bill Peters has faith in him developing into a top dman. That's good enough for me.


And yes, Hanifin made mistakes but that's pretty common for 20 yrs old dmen.

 

[DJJones]

This is going exactly how I expected

 

[Volica]

How is Hanifin a top 4D? He spent more time on the 3rd pairing than on the 2nd pairing while facing the easiest QoC on the team and getting over 63% of his zone starts in the offensive zone. He has not showed he is a top 4D at all yet.

You can think whatever you want about Hanifin, he certainly has the potential to be a top pairing defender but he isn't close at the moment. I've spoken to many a Carolina fan who were really disappointed with him before the trade and spoke of his pee wee level defensive mistakes.

I would like to see the data you have showing Rielly facing easier QoC than Hanifin, genuinely interested as Hanifin had the easiest QoC on Carolina.

Again not saying Hanifin can't or wont get better, he 100% will. I just haven't been impressed thus and he has some fundamental flaws in his defensive game that need to be fixed.

Morgan Reilly 2013/14 his 20/21 season: TOI% QOC: 28.38
Morgan Reilly 2014/15 his 21/22 season: TOI% QoC: 28.68

Noah Hanifin 2017/18 his 20/21 season: TOI% QoC: 28.40

I'll take the word of the coach, again, more than your words. Peters mentioned his usage of Hanifin, where as a 20 year old, he looked to get him easy matchups; and when they needed a goal, would swing him into the top 4. Calgary has him penciled in as Hamonic's partner on the second pair this year already as well.

Also, Hanifin didn't have the easiest QoC on Carolina.
TVR (his most frequent partner) and Hadyn Fleury both got easier competition than Hanifin.

People forget how young this kid is. His TOI% QoC numbers are in line with most D his age, when they were 20/21 years old in the league.
Seth Jones' 20/21 season: 28.52

There are of course outliers, like Provorov, but he's in line with others.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Morgan Reilly 2013/14 his 20/21 season: TOI% QOC: 28.38
Morgan Reilly 2014/15 his 21/22 season: TOI% QoC: 28.68

Noah Hanifin 2017/18 his 20/21 season: TOI% QoC: 28.40

I'll take the word of the coach, again, more than your words. Peters mentioned his usage of Hanifin, where as a 20 year old, he looked to get him easy matchups; and when they needed a goal, would swing him into the top 4. Calgary has him penciled in as Hamonic's partner on the second pair this year already as well.

Also, Hanifin didn't have the easiest QoC on Carolina.
TVR (his most frequent partner) and Hadyn Fleury both got easier competition than Hanifin.

People forget how young this kid is. His TOI% QoC numbers are in line with most D his age, when they were 20/21 years old in the league.
Seth Jones' 20/21 season: 28.52

There are of course outliers, like Provorov, but he's in line with others.

So your comparing Rielly's 1st year in the NHL to Hanifin's third year? That doesn't make sense. Clearly Rielly faced tougher competition in his second year than Hanifin faced in his third year.

From charts I have seen Hanifin had the lowest Qoc along with his most common partner TVR.

It is wise to put him with a more defensively inclined player like Hamonic so that is a good move. I just think you will see him struggle in that 2nd pairing role unless he can receive the same level of sheltering which he wont.

Only time will tell and the Hanifin topic deserves to be readressed after this season. I'm largely stating personal opinion and I haven't been too impressed with Hanifin so far. It isn't a good sign that every year he has received more and more offensive zone starts. Usually the opposite occurs.

 

[super6646]

o

 

[Notsince67]

Marner is not mcdavid...

Yeah tkachuk may have overproduced with marner....maybe by 5 pts

Tkchuk is doing absolutely fine in the NHL without marner. As the matter of fact, outscored him in goals last year with less games. Only the blind or a moron couldn't see that.

Thanks for that. Really gives me something o think about

 

[Randy Randerson]

Did you play before? At a decent level?
or just a fan of the best game in the world?

normal Canadian upbringing, A-AA but nothing super competitive. I did go to Brock with a bunch of guys in the sports management program (at the same time Kyle Dubas did, he used to come to our parties and his wife was in our circle of friends) so if I talked out of my ass I got called on it

 

[DoobieDubas]

normal Canadian upbringing, A-AA but nothing super competitive. I did go to Brock with a bunch of guys in the sports management program (at the same time Kyle Dubas did, he used to come to our parties and his wife was in our circle of friends) so if I talked out of my ass I got called on it

I take it your a tad older than me then my friends all went to brock as well. Im a 92 I played against seguin skinner toffoli matt occonnor etc that age group. Cheers.

 

[CaptainCrunch67]

Not enough to the Leafs.
Hanifin+Anderssen+
For
Nylander

I wouldn't trade Hanifin straight across for Nylander, but I value a young a 21 year old defenseman with a high ceiling more then a one dimensional winger.

 

[Volica]

So your comparing Rielly's 1st year in the NHL to Hanifin's third year? That doesn't make sense. Clearly Rielly faced tougher competition in his second year than Hanifin faced in his third year.

From charts I have seen Hanifin had the lowest Qoc along with his most common partner TVR.

It is wise to put him with a more defensively inclined player like Hamonic so that is a good move. I just think you will see him struggle in that 2nd pairing role unless he can receive the same level of sheltering which he wont.

Only time will tell and the Hanifin topic deserves to be readressed after this season. I'm largely stating personal opinion and I haven't been too impressed with Hanifin so far. It isn't a good sign that every year he has received more and more offensive zone starts. Usually the opposite occurs.

Well, I was comparing them at the same age. Is it Hanifin's fault he played his way into the league at 18? It's what I'm trying to tell you. At 21, you don't have a finished product, but having a guy who's already good for 30 points and has all kinds of runway... it's absolutely moronic to think that that's what you're finishing product looks like, or that he could only slightly improve. Dmen normally don't even start hitting their stride until they're in their mid 20's. Hell, Calgary's current 1D wasn't a real 1D until he was 29.

I gave you the guys with lowest QoC, Hanifin was used a 4/5 on the Canes. Depending on the score/circumstance. The numbers back that up.

I mean, what else can we say? We'll see? The coaching staff/management team has nothing but absolutely positive things to say about the kid. I'll go with what they're preaching, because I like it.

 

[Volica]

I wouldn't trade Hanifin straight across for Nylander, but I value a young a 21 year old defenseman with a high ceiling more then a one dimensional winger.

Honestly don't think you could put something together from both sides in a Nylander deal.

Toronto needs D, Calgary doesn't have any with that kind of value to give up. You're not making a lateral move, because your players with that Nylander or better type value, have more value than Nylander.

Toronto doesn't need spare parts, Calgary only has those to give.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I take it your a tad older than me then my friends all went to brock as well. Im a 92 I played against seguin skinner toffoli matt occonnor etc that age group. Cheers.

I'm a 1984, and I'm betting you played better hockey than me with that peer group

 

[zeke]

leafs lose the best player in this deal.

pass.

 

[Red Piller]

Hanifin plays the left side so I wouldn't be interested in this trade.

I also think Hanifin is extremely overrated and will top out as a 2nd pairing PP guy. Makes some of the worst defensive reads I have ever seen. There is a reason Carolina got rid of him so early while he still had increased value due to his draft position. He was also one of the more sheltered defenders in the league last year zone usage wise and QoC wise.

Is there actually a dman in the entire NHL that the Toronto Maple Leafs fanbase would be happy to acquire? You have counter arguments for every single one. Either they are too old. They do not have the proper possession stats. They dont play the proper side. This guy is over rated. He is not worth that much lol! He is too sheltered. He is injured too much. Like holy f***......who is good enough for you?

 

[Brock Radunske]

I wouldn't trade Hanifin straight across for Nylander, but I value a young a 21 year old defenseman with a high ceiling more then a one dimensional winger.

I doubt many outside of Calgary would agree with you, but OK.

 

[zeke]

Is there actually a dman in the entire NHL that the Toronto Maple Leafs fanbase would be happy to acquire? You have counter arguments for every single one. Either they are too old. They do not have the proper possession stats. They dont play the proper side. This guy is over rated. He is not worth that much lol! He is too sheltered. He is injured too much. Like holy ****......who is good enough for you?

leafs know that there's plenty of good Dmen in the fold already, and that the only thing that really moves the needle back there would be getting another legit top pair dman who can thrive against the other team's top players.

 

[Lunatik]

I doubt many outside of Calgary would agree with you, but OK.

Clearly you missed his point, or are intentionally being obtuse.

Simply put, a player's true value is based on team needs.

After acquiring Lindholm & Neal and moving Brodie back to RD after the departure of Hamilton, we will have a gaping hole at LD if we move Hanifin, with no immediate replacements looming (the closest are Valimaki who has yet to play a professional game and Kylington who IMO is not near ready for a top 4 role) as our top defensemen outside our top 4 are both RD.

Why would we want to create a hole in order to address a weakness that we already addressed?