Leafs fire Carlyle II - Carlyle Speaks (Link in post 227)

[Cor]

I think the "Saturday night" comment is coming from theShanahan rounds when they decided to meet over the weekend and discuss it. No one ever said though that it was decided Saturday.

The Loss against Winnipeg likely brought the thoughts back to surface.

They had meetings the Sunday/Monday, came to the final decision the Monday Night, notified Carlyle and announced it the Tuesday Morning.

That's not delaying. There was no decision Saturday Night.

 

[Longshot]

this is the way that I see it:
take away everything and let's apply this to real life.

If you were sick. or had a death in the family, and you took time off: and in this time you got fired. Do you expect your boss to come to your house and do it face to face. or. Do you expect business decisions to wait until you got better/came back to work so it could happen face to face


the answer would be no.
you would receive a phone-call or messenger-ed correspondence, or a very nicely email saying what was what, and come in and collect your things.

because that's the crux of the matter here. that they didn't do it face to face. not that "Oh they could have done it Saturday night. (when? On the plane?) or "Oh they could have done it Sunday? (when when they flew to Sudbury?) Or Monday when they could have again flown to Subury)?

okie dokes.

Not sure why you directed that at me.

I have not made a single comment about the method of the firing, which was over the phone at Carlyle's request (according to his own interview).

I have been commenting about the timing of when the announcement was made.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Who said NHL business stops during the WJC? The only person that is inferring that is you.

Nobody said the Leafs shut down during the tournament - in fact. They DIDN'T. Evidenced by the fact that they decided to fire their coach while the tournament was going on.

All we're saying is they waited to make the announcement until after the tournament was over. Which is exactly what happened.

We will have to disagree. I have a hard time buying into the WJC dictating the running of a NHL team's business.

I do know Shanahan makes moves in a slow and methodical manner. Leafs were discussing firing Carlyle for weeks now.

If they were going to do it, they should have done it sooner, if not Sunday, then after the game on Saturday.

In the end it was unfortunate it was done over the phone. Had Carlyle driven overnight to Toronto just to be fired, and Nonis and Shanahan knew this. I would probably be more upset. Just think about that for a second. Nonis and Shanahan asked someone to drive from Sudbury to Toronto for a 8AM meeting just to fire them. If you or me got the axe this way, how would you feel?

Just fly out there, stand at the door and relieve him of his duties. Then leave. This is the proper way of relieving a person of their job in this situation.

 

[Longshot]

What is your source for them having decided the Saturday Night

It's only been everywhere. I've seen and heard and read Nonis and Shanahan's comments in multiple places in the media and they have both said they decided to make the move after the game on Saturday.

 

[ACC1224]

Fans moan incessantly to fire the Coach.
Coach is fired.
Fans moan that it wasn't done correctly.

 

[Longshot]

The Loss against Winnipeg likely brought the thoughts back to surface.

They had meetings the Sunday/Monday, came to the final decision the Monday Night, notified Carlyle and announced it the Tuesday Morning.

That's not delaying. There was no decision Saturday Night.

What's your source on that?

 

[Durrr]

They didn't have the decision then. They didn't tell Carlyle until that Monday Night, when they decided to fire him.

That's the end of it. Anything else is pure speculation, unless you were in the meetings and can confirm they wanted to fire Carlyle the Sunday/Monday, but held off because of a Junior Tournament.

Well that's not true according to Interactif (even though I said the same thing as you originally). He said Nonis said that they had been contemplating it for 2 weeks and that the Winnipeg game was the final determinant.

 

[Durrr]

Fans moan incessantly to fire the Coach.
Coach is fired.
Fans moan that it wasn't done correctly.

Only one person is arguing that lol, and as many have pointed out there were many factors involved.

 

[Longshot]

We will have to disagree. I have a hard time buying into the WJC dictating the running of a NHL team's business.

I never said that.

 

[Cor]

What's your source on that?

Common Sense.

You believe the horn went on Saturday, and Shanahan said "he gone!"?

Why would they wait until Monday Night to tell Carlyle while he was in Sudbury.

Nonis and Shanahan have more respect than that. Had the knew the Saturday Night, they would have told him in person.

 

[Cor]

It's only been everywhere. I've seen and heard and read Nonis and Shanahan's comments in multiple places in the media and they have both said they decided to make the move after the game on Saturday.

Neither said anything like that.

 

[ACC1224]

Only one person is arguing that lol, and as many have pointed out there were many factors involved.

I guess the redundancy of their posts made it seem like their were many others.

 

[Durrr]

Common Sense.

You believe the horn went on Saturday, and Shanahan said "he gone!"?

Why would they wait until Monday Night to tell Carlyle while he was in Sudbury.

Nonis and Shanahan have more respect than that. Had the knew the Saturday Night, they would have told him in person.

So everything that disagrees with your opinion is "nothing but speculation" but on the flip side its common sense. Got it.

I believe that the decision was made earlier, and for various reasons posted in this thread was delayed until Tuesday. This is everything from the decision making process, to Carlyle's family issues, to the WJC/TSN. I can't prove it anymore then you can prove anything you said, it just seems to make the most sense.

 

[Pookie]

Why does this matter?

Firing someone who is suffering a loss in the family is just cold. Whether you want to do it face to face or on the phone, it's irrelevant to the facts which equate to kicking a man when he is down.

Some will say business is business. It is. And equally true is that there are good companies and bad ones.

 

[Durrr]

Why does this matter?

Firing someone who is suffering a loss in the family is just cold. Whether you want to do it face to face or on the phone, it's irrelevant to the facts which equate to kicking a man when he is down.

Some will say business is business. It is. And equally true is that there are good companies and bad ones.

Yes but it was argued that this firing equates to the company being a poor one. Do you not agree that there were various factors involved in this firing that made it almost impossible to do right?

 

[Daisy Jane]

Not sure why you directed that at me.

I have not made a single comment about the method of the firing, which was over the phone at Carlyle's request (according to his own interview).

I have been commenting about the timing of when the announcement was made.

sorry -it wasn't directed at you "per-se" I was just piggy backing off your comment, sorry if that confused you or made you think i was singling you out

 

[Mystifo]

There is never a "right" time to fire someone. Something will always get in the way.

 

[hoglund]

There is never a "right" time to fire someone. Something will always get in the way.

this was the wrong time, WTF would you fire a coach with a winning record and in a playoff position? Also the day after the world juniors win gold, this was the obvious wrong time. They should have waited until the Leafs had a losing record and at least 5 points out of a playoff position.

 

[Daisy Jane]

this was the wrong time, WTF would you fire a coach with a winning record and in a playoff position? Also the day after the world juniors win gold, this was the obvious wrong time. They should have waited until the Leafs had a losing record and at least 5 points out of a playoff position.

Lou Lamerello fired Robbie Ftorek 8 games before the playoffs. And they were in the Playoffs. (and I think they won the cup that year).

and if they did what you suggested - people would be like "why did they do that then? why wasn't he fired when there was still achance to 'save the season'

 

[realgoodleafs]

this was the wrong time, WTF would you fire a coach with a winning record and in a playoff position? Also the day after the world juniors win gold, this was the obvious wrong time. They should have waited until the Leafs had a losing record and at least 5 points out of a playoff position.

They should have waited until it was too late and the season was completely lost? The record was phony and you only have to look to last year to realize it.

This isn't a plumber getting fired and not being able to pay his bills. This is somebody being kicked out of a rich man's game and still getting paid.

 

[ACC1224]

this was the wrong time, WTF would you fire a coach with a winning record and in a playoff position? Also the day after the world juniors win gold, this was the obvious wrong time. They should have waited until the Leafs had a losing record and at least 5 points out of a playoff position.

...and the absurd gets more absurd.

It's like some have never visited the real world.

 

[Guy Boucher]

What's your source on that?

He's quoting Shanahan from his radio interviews.

Also from Shanahan's TSN 1050 interview:

"He (Nonis) wanted to be the guy to call Randy...felt it was his job as the GM, and I agreed. He reached out to Randy and said that he wanted to meet the next morning but Randy was not in town. So when they spoke on the phone, David actually agreed that...Randy had some family matters...Dave had agreed to go and meet with him and I think Randy sort of knew what was happening and wanted to get the news over with."

http://www.tsn.ca/shanahan-the-only-way-out-is-to-play-better-1.178943

 

[Kbs]

Lou Lamerello fired Robbie Ftorek 8 games before the playoffs. And they were in the Playoffs. (and I think they won the cup that year).

and if they did what you suggested - people would be like "why did they do that then? why wasn't he fired when there was still achance to 'save the season'

Lamoriello also fired Julien right before the playoffs when the team had a 47-24-8 record.

If management thinks a coaching change is the right decision for the future of the team, then there's no reason to wait until everything falls apart.

 

[Durrr]

He's quoting Shanahan from his radio interviews.

Also from Shanahan's TSN 1050 interview:

"He (Nonis) wanted to be the guy to call Randy...felt it was his job as the GM, and I agreed. He reached out to Randy and said that he wanted to meet the next morning but Randy was not in town. So when they spoke on the phone, David actually agreed that...Randy had some family matters...Dave had agreed to go and meet with him and I think Randy sort of knew what was happening and wanted to get the news over with."

http://www.tsn.ca/shanahan-the-only-way-out-is-to-play-better-1.178943

And no response from interactif lol

 

[hoglund]

They should have waited until it was too late and the season was completely lost? The record was phony and you only have to look to last year to realize it.

This isn't a plumber getting fired and not being able to pay his bills. This is somebody being kicked out of a rich man's game and still getting paid.

many fans HAVE already said the season is lost and "blow up the team", so I guess there goes that theory.