Leafs fire Carlyle II - Carlyle Speaks (Link in post 227)

[tantalum]

Not one current Maple Leafs player had better underlying numbers under Carlyle. All players who left saw their underlying numbers increase. Take from that what you will.

All I'm saying is the chart is simply an illustration there are no real analysis wrapped around it. If that analysis was wrapped around the last 80 or so games under Wilson I'm not sure the underlying numbers change that much to what happened under Carlyle. For the entire Wilson tenure vs Carlyle tenure sure the numbers are different.

To coin a Lean Six Sigma manufacturing type phrase....the process was either out of control or trending to be out of control prior to Carlyle taking over. The trend clearly was there before the coaching change (hence the coaching change).

Again Carlyle clearly did nothing to change the trend and that in itself means unemployment in pro sports (it is what it is. coaches are more expendable than GMs and players). But if the end of Wilson's tenure and the entirety of Carlyle's tenure are essentially the same for underlying numbers it would suggest other underlying issues independent of coaching. To go back to my analogy, an input was targetted (coaching) and changed and there was no response seen in the process. So perhaps there are other more important inputs that need to be dealt with.

I think most everyone agrees with that.

 

[Bullseye]

I would need evidence to suggest that all players have better numbers after leaving the Leafs. Beauchimen yes, Steen yes but Ian White, Matt Stajan, Luke Schenn plus a bunch that disappeared from the league. Kulemin and Grabo doing ok with Isles but not hugely different (larger sample size needed).

I respect the six sigma analysis above - very good trend analysis. We need star centres who control the puck. Everything gets better with type of culture change.

 

[egd27]

“I think you can win with Phil Kessel,†he said. “He shows obvious signs of brilliance throughout the year. But Phil’s problem, and I think it’s pretty much the way Phil’s been his whole career, he’s two weeks on and two weeks off. … You can’t rely on Phil. It’s just the way it is.

“He comes and goes, and he gets emotional, and he lets that affect his game and his relationship with other players. But that’s just the nature of the beast. That’s what you have to coach. You have to know that Phil’s gonna give you everything he’s got for two or three weeks, and then for the next two or three weeks, everything seems to go wrong for Phil. That’s just the way it is.â€

Sour grapes from a man that hockey has utterly passed by.

Wasn't that statement from Ron Wilson?

 

[indigobuffalo]

I would need evidence to suggest that all players have better numbers after leaving the Leafs. Beauchimen yes, Steen yes but Ian White, Matt Stajan, Luke Schenn plus a bunch that disappeared from the league. Kulemin and Grabo doing ok with Isles but not hugely different (larger sample size needed).

I respect the six sigma analysis above - very good trend analysis. We need star centres who control the puck. Everything gets better with type of culture change.

Kadri + Nylander

Holland is the shutdown C.

Bozak holds down the fort till Nylander is ready (IMO gotta give Nylander more time to grow into his frame, the talent is there but don't ruin him with injuries. Take time to develop him!

 

[The Legend]

It sucks to see the personal stuff that Carlyle is going through with his brother-in-law. I'm pretty sure that Nonis knew there was no way that he was going to make it back to Toronto for 8:00 AM.

As it relates to his job performance however, I would love to see some acknowledgment from some of his supporters in these parts that he's also partially responsible for the roster construction. Players like Grabovski, MacArthur, Gunnarson, didn't fit into the Carlyle mold, and were removed; players like Clarkson, Orr, McLaren, Polak, Robidas, Gleason, McClement were brought in and given minutes. You'd have to imagine the coach was involved in those decisions.

 

[zeke]

This market always destroys our best assets and lionizes our worst.

This randy adoration is hilarious.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Randy Carlyle opens up about being fired by Leafs

Bryan Hayes touched on this on Leafs Lunch. Tough way to be fired. Carlyle was in Sudbury because his brother inlaw passed away. Not impressed by how the Leafs handled this one.

“I got a text from Noni (Nonis) on Monday night after the world junior game, and he said, ‘I want to meet you in the office tomorrow morning at 8 o’clock,’ ” said Carlyle. “He actually knew that I wouldn’t be able to make it. He knew where I was because I told him I needed to drive my mother-in-law and my wife to Sudbury. So he knew I was there and I was planning on making it back for practice the next morning (Tuesday).

“So there was a red flag automatically, a light went on in my mind ... well, if he wants to meet me at 8 o’clock, obviously it’s pretty important,” Carlyle continued. “So I just said, ‘Call me.’ And we had a conversation. And I said, ‘I’m not going to drive five hours back and through a snowstorm to get fired. You might as well do it now.’ ”

Which Nonis did. He fired Carlyle over the phone.

“But I don’t hold any ill will because it was over the phone,” said Carlyle. “I don’t. I just said, ‘If you’re going to make a change, Dave, let me know.’

Nonis and Shanahan could have flew up there and fired him face to face. This kinda speaks to the character that is running this organization these days. Will it affect attracting future coaching talent to the Leafs? I don't know. But if I am a Coach that is being interviewed for a job, it would cross my mind.

Whether you liked Randy as a coach or not, one thing I am impressed with. He didn't throw any stones. He exited with class. More class than how the Leafs fired him.


http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/07/randy-carlyle-opens-up-about-being-fired-by-leafs

 

[Doublechin]

As classless as anything I've heard recently when it comes to Sports

 

[Muston Atthews]

Fly up to Sudbury from Toronto? What kind of joke is that. This is a business. Would your boss fly to you to fire you?

 

[The CyNick]

makes us look pretty bad

 

[grenade]

Unfortunate timing, but it says his brother died after he was fired. Carlyle was driving family to see him (brother) when he got a call saying they wanted a meeting the next day.

Carlyle asked for it to happen over phone, honestly what did nonis do wrong here? How could nonis know the next day would be the day the brother passes away?

 

[ULF_55]

Bryan Hayes touched on this on Leafs Lunch. Tough way to be fired. Carlyle was in Sudbury because his brother inlaw passed away. Not impressed by how the Leafs handled this one.

Nonis and Shanahan could have flew up there and fired him face to face. This kinda speaks to the character that is running this organization these days. Will it affect attracting future coaching talent to the Leafs? I don't know. But if I am a Coach that is being interviewed for a job, it would cross my mind.

Whether you liked Randy as a coach or not, one thing I am impressed with. He didn't throw any stones. He exited with class. More class than how the Leafs fired him.


http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/07/randy-carlyle-opens-up-about-being-fired-by-leafs

There are 30 jobs in the NHL, any unemployed coach would accept the job if they wanted a NHL position.

Would they get the best to leave their current positions and seek it out? Probably not. It isn't a dream job under the circumstances, i.e. with this core.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Already mentioned and being discussed here:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1808001&page=11

 

[ULF_55]

Fly up to Sudbury from Toronto? What kind of joke is that. This is a business. Would your boss fly to you to fire you?

Have to agree, the coaches like the players are expendable. Coach will still get paid his guaranteed money, the same way a player would.

They're all temps, coaches, players, and management.

Just business.

 

[Daisy Jane]

this thread just got locked -but I don't get why the Organization is classless for firing Randy over the phone (especially when Randy said "do it over the phone). People get fired over the phone. (people were like OH MY GOD! Edmonton fired Kruger over SKYPE! how dare they?!)

Randy was asked (as an employee) to come to work at a certain time
Randy said he couldn't, because he had to take care of a family obligation. then Randy said, if you're going to fire me just do it over the phone.
Nonis should have gone: oh no, I'll be in Sudbury in a few hours, see you then?

i think everything was done as quietly as possible to keep the focus on the World Juniors. (good job). something like this would have leaked out had they done it through 'proper channels' .

 

[Muston Atthews]

From the locked thread:

Fly up to Sudbury from Toronto? What kind of joke is that. This is a business. Would your boss fly to you to fire you?

 

[yubbers]

I see no problem with that. Unfortunately it coincided with a family death.

 

[Daisy Jane]

From the locked thread:

Fly up to Sudbury from Toronto? What kind of joke is that. This is a business. Would your boss fly to you to fire you?

exactly.
i know people who've gotten fired over email because they weren't in town. Life goes on. Randy couldn't show up, Nonis called and asked, Randy said no, Randy got fired. (yes, a bummer because of his situation, but still. this notion that Nonis and MLSE should have flown out to fire him first thing Tuesday morning? no).

 

[Warden of the North]

Kind of silly. Nonis asked Randy to meet him in the office, Randy knew why, and told him to just get it over with. Are both parties going to act ignorant of whats happening just so they can do it face to face?

Its not classless, its being practical.

 

[tantalum]

No real issue with how the firing went down (from my outside perspective). It's different than Kruger and the Oilers.

Carlyle knew what was up, knew his time was coming to an end, acknowledged it and gave permission to just do it then and there. I don't sense there was any sort of avoidance by Nonis to do it face-to-face. Something like Kruger was different....he signed onto Skype expecting to discuss offseason plans only to get fired. It was out of the blue and he expected the meeting to be about something completely different.

And believe me it gives me no pleasure to let Nonis and leafs off the hook on this one.

 

[Einzakin]

Carlyle is a great hockey man but he was in a world where he needed to adapt. He couldn't do that. As we all know change is one of the hardest things to do.

Nonis is next. Some of the contracts just look awful now. It's tough to defend him even though he has made some decent moves.

This organization needs a change. A big change. New personnel, new coaches, new management. I just hope we see a consistent improvement. Don't expect a stanley cup winning team in a month.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

exactly.
i know people who've gotten fired over email because they weren't in town. Life goes on. Randy couldn't show up, Nonis called and asked, Randy said no, Randy got fired. (yes, a bummer because of his situation, but still. this notion that Nonis and MLSE should have flown out to fire him first thing Tuesday morning? no).

I don't think anyone is reading Buffery's article.

Nonis knew he was in Sudbury for his brotherinlaw's death, he knew RC was not going to drive 3AM in the night to get to Toronto to meet him at 8AM. It may be business, but some organizations fire people the right way. Edmonton fired their coach(not Eakins the other guy) by Skype, we know what kind of organization they are .Class organizations like Detroit would do it face to face.

I don't think it was handled in the most sensitive way. I can't believe people think that firing some one on the phone is the right way, maybe it is just me. But good organizations, even businesses. Hire and Fire the correct way. It sets a class organization apart from the also rands.

A jet ride to Sudbury for a coach that gave 3 years of his life to the organization is a drop in the bucket for an organization with money up to their eyeballs.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I don't think anyone is reading Buffery's article.

Nonis knew he was in Sudbury for his brotherinlaw's death, he knew RC was not going to drive 3AM in the night to get to Toronto to meet him at 8AM. It may be business, but some organizations fire people the right way. Edmonton fired their coach(not Eakins the other guy) by Skype, we know what kind of organization they are .Class organizations like Detroit would do it face to face.

I don't think it was handled in the most sensitive way. I can't believe people think that firing some one on the phone is the right way, maybe it is just me. But good organizations, even businesses. Hire and Fire the correct way. It sets a class organization apart from the also rands.

A jet ride to Sudbury for a coach that gave 3 years of his life to the organization is a drop in the bucket for an organization with money up to their eyeballs.

but why stop there? why not say -well, you know, Nonis knew his brother in law died, so he should have waited to fire Carlyle say this weekend or something, out of respect? Why not wait until Tuesday afternoon? why would it have mattered if the story exploded by then, at least they waited.

For all we know - as the only time frame references was "Randy gets a text around 8:00pm, Randy gets a phone call, Randy is fired" was that maybe the decision wasn't settled until around then. (or they wanted to keep things under wraps not to take things away from the WJHC. (but considering the nature of this firing, i wonder how 'under wraps' they could have kept it if Nonis left for Sudbury -everyone knows these kinds of things then there would have been speculation).

I've been hired over the phone, and sent an email to confirm (and I've lived not even 15 minutes away from the company) I've been threatened via email that i'd lose my job (and my bosses knew why i wasn't at work, I was taking care of my mother right after her surgery).. I personally don't see it as a matter of class or what not, I just see it as that's what people do. But you are older than I am, so i could see why you'd see it differently than I.


[and I did read the article]

 

[leafstilldeath*]

lol. I really do not see anything classless on Nonis or Shanahan's part . Carlyle basically knew that his time was up and didn't wanna drive up 5 hours and requested that lets get it done over the phone. Furthermore, he had a family emergency.

Carlyle was all class though. I guess he appreciates that life is very unpredictable, one has to count their blessings and move on to the next chapter.

 

[Community]

but why stop there? why not say -well, you know, Nonis knew his brother in law died, so he should have waited to fire Carlyle say this weekend or something, out of respect? Why not wait until Tuesday afternoon? why would it have mattered if the story exploded by then, at least they waited.

For all we know - as the only time frame references was "Randy gets a text around 8:00pm, Randy gets a phone call, Randy is fired" was that maybe the decision wasn't settled until around then. (or they wanted to keep things under wraps not to take things away from the WJHC. (but considering the nature of this firing, i wonder how 'under wraps' they could have kept it if Nonis left for Sudbury -everyone knows these kinds of things then there would have been speculation).

I've been hired over the phone, and sent an email to confirm (and I've lived not even 15 minutes away from the company) I've been threatened via email that i'd lose my job (and my bosses knew why i wasn't at work, I was taking care of my mother right after her surgery).. I personally don't see it as a matter of class or what not, I just see it as that's what people do. But you are older than I am, so i could see why you'd see it differently than I.


[and I did read the article]

Interact if likes to stir the pot... There is nothing wrong with how the Carlyle firing went down... They asked d if he could meet so they could talk face to face, RC said he couldn't meet then and if he was being fired to just tell him and get it cover with. Do people really think RC would've appreciated it if Nonis said,"No, gimme a few hours and I'll meet you in Sudbury."?

Not only would it be ridiculous since RC requested to just be told, but how do you think hed feel if Nonis had took him away from family for a few hours in his situation just to fire him when he knew it was going to happen and RC asked to just get it over with quickly.

There's a lot of things you can dislike about the TML organization, but this is ****ing ridiculous. Anything to complain about I guess...

Just because RC took it well and was good about it, doesn't mean you have to find something wrong with how Nonis fired RC... There doesn't always have to be a bad side to a story...

*Aimed at those who believe this was a classless firing, not at Daisy.