Prospect Info: Leafs Development Camp

[Mikeyg]

Is "grumpy" really supposed to.... bother me? Not sure what the continuing issue you're having is all about, but your embarrassing yourself by namecalling like a child.

Rinne carried that team to the final, and would have easily been the Conn Smythe winner if his team could have figured out a way to beat Murray. The other stellar goalie I mentioned shut the door almost completely.

This is really just another example of you arguing mindlessly for the sake of it. My point was that it would be nice to have a great young goalie prospect in the pipeline. There's zero grounds to argue that it's a bad thing, but yet, here you are.

When you're grumpy, I call you Grumpy. When you aren't, I'll call you Ernie. Anyways, I can't agree with your assessment. Whats more likely, that nashville needed to find a way to beat murray 8 times a night in pitt, or that rinne simply isn't a championship quality/clutch goalie? Rinne was beyond embarrassing in pitt in every game, stop sugar coating it.

You stated that you wanted a better goalie pipeline and more resources allocated toward it. I said that it was a waste of resources and its easier to just buy an average starter. You then said "omg but what if we got the next murray", then turned Grumpy when I said that Murray wasn't a top end goalie and that instances where rookie goalies can come in and do that job are almost non-existent. Whats the odds of picking a murray you think? 1 in 30? 1 in 100? Its probably closer to 1/200. Too much risk, bad asset management.

 

[Bullseye]

yeah he only has the best save percentage of any starting goalie in hockey over the last 2 seasons (his only 2 seasons).

Ya. Not sure where Murray is not one of the best goalies in the game right now - he and Sullivan were huge parts of the lost Pitt season last year turning around into a Cup.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Ya. Not sure where Murray is not one of the best goalies in the game right now - he and Sullivan were huge parts of the lost Pitt season last year turning around into a Cup.

All lies bud. All of it. It's no great feat at all, what he's managed in two years. News to me.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

When you're grumpy, I call you Grumpy. When you aren't, I'll call you Ernie. Anyways, I can't agree with your assessment. Whats more likely, that nashville needed to find a way to beat murray 8 times a night in pitt, or that rinne simply isn't a championship quality/clutch goalie? Rinne was beyond embarrassing in pitt in every game, stop sugar coating it.

You stated that you wanted a better goalie pipeline and more resources allocated toward it. I said that it was a waste of resources and its easier to just buy an average starter. You then said "omg but what if we got the next murray", then turned Grumpy when I said that Murray wasn't a top end goalie and that instances where rookie goalies can come in and do that job are almost non-existent. Whats the odds of picking a murray you think? 1 in 30? 1 in 100? Its probably closer to 1/200. Too much risk, bad asset management.

TL;DR "you have a different opinion than me on things? Grumpy."

 

[Bullseye]

All lies bud. All of it. It's no great feat at all, what he's managed in two years. News to me.

Fake news lol. I'm with you on Murray. He won me over last season. But I also see Mikeyg's argument that it's had to put too many picks into finding that guy. Almost better to build up valuable players you can trade for that guy but I doubt Pitt will give up Murray for anyone. He's a cornerstone for them. 2 Cups 2 seasons in the league wow.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Fake news lol. I'm with you on Murray. He won me over last season. But I also see Mikeyg's argument that it's had to put too many picks into finding that guy. Almost better to build up valuable players you can trade for that guy but I doubt Pitt will give up Murray for anyone. He's a cornerstone for them. 2 Cups 2 seasons in the league wow.

I understand trading for a guy. That's what we did already. Where we are, we have our guy for 5 years, so this is a fine time to invest a little in the position, while we have all the time in the world to not worry about it, and we can let kids develop.

 

[Mikeyg]

TL;DR "you have a different opinion than me on things? Grumpy."

No? Rinne was horrible in the cup finals in pit, that isn't an opinion.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

No? Rinne was horrible in the cup finals in pit, that isn't an opinion.

After being the reason they even got a sniff at it in the first place. Pitt's offense ripped that team to Ribbons, while Murray made the Preds offense look like Timbits.

A tale of goaltending.... who'd'a thought?

 

[nuck]

I'm quite looking forward to seeing of Middleton in the preseason. Him and Rasanen could make an interesting third pairing in 2021. Was also hoping for Brooks to show big at DC but he still has a reset opportunity for training camp.

 

[member 262271]

Pardon me if this has already been brought up, but man does Bracco say "you know" a lot in interviews. Must be nerves but I can't even listen to him speak now without counting them.

 

[al secord]

Pardon me if this has already been brought up, but man does Bracco say "you know" a lot in interviews. Must be nerves but I can't even listen to him speak now without counting them.

You know?

 

[member 262271]

You know?

Nnnnoooooooo stoppppppp!

 

[Mikeyg]

After being the reason they even got a sniff at it in the first place. Pitt's offense ripped that team to Ribbons, while Murray made the Preds offense look like Timbits.

A tale of goaltending.... who'd'a thought?

Grumpy...... it is largely accepted that rinne was inadequate/poor/poop/bad/horrible and largely at fault for them losing that series. Don't be grumpy because I uncovered the holes in this "omg we need god tier goaltending" argument.

 

[Bullseye]

Grumpy...... it is largely accepted that rinne was inadequate/poor/poop/bad/horrible and largely at fault for them losing that series. Don't be grumpy because I uncovered the holes in this "omg we need god tier goaltending" argument.

As a closet Preds fan for years I was never in the camp that saw Rinne as an elite playoff goalie. He has always had a lot of holes and tends to make the highlight reel save with the paddle of his stick etc. rather than being in the right position - personal bias - but it has been proved out in several playoff series. I wanted to see what Saros could do behind that defence. Matt Murray is a star goalie goalie though and will be at the top of the league for years so I can't say I'm supporting either side of your discussion with Ernie.

 

[Pholus]

After being the reason they even got a sniff at it in the first place. Pitt's offense ripped that team to Ribbons, while Murray made the Preds offense look like Timbits.

A tale of goaltending.... who'd'a thought?

I think you're helping Mikey's point here, Rinne is being paid $7m(?) a season, and in the end, NSH just didn't have enough offense to win.

For the record, I think the better way to state Mikey's argument is: it's extremely difficult to win a Cup when your goalie is your highest paid player. Look at Montreal, they couldn't assemble a deep enough team for Cup runs back when Price was only making $6m, how can they possibly improve the team now that he's making 10.5? (that's 14% of their total cap space!!) Lundqvist is making 8m and NYR have 0 rings with him. If you have an average/above average #1 who's making ~5-6m, you have enough money to potentially add 2+ good depth players, which is probably more valuable to the team than the difference between a .915 and a .925 starting goalie.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

I think you're helping Mikey's point here, Rinne is being paid $7m(?) a season, and in the end, NSH just didn't have enough offense to win.

For the record, I think the better way to state Mikey's argument is: it's extremely difficult to win a Cup when your goalie is your highest paid player. Look at Montreal, they couldn't assemble a deep enough team for Cup runs back when Price was only making $6m, how can they possibly improve the team now that he's making 10.5? (that's 14% of their total cap space!!) Lundqvist is making 8m and NYR have 0 rings with him. If you have an average/above average #1 who's making ~5-6m, you have enough money to potentially add 2+ good depth players, which is probably more valuable to the team than the difference between a .915 and a .925 starting goalie.

Mikey has moved the goalposts entirely on what the statement I made was to begin with. We're not even talking about the same thing... like, am I on ******** crazy pills? Is this a gag? I never once made a single inference about how much money we need to allot to goalie salaries.

I said that it would be nice while we have our #1 to invest in the position atthe youth level, and get the next wave of guys going, as it takes longer (typically) for them to develop. SOMEHOW this has been spun to be about how much one specific goalie makes. I NEVER ****ING argued that at all!! I simply stated that goaltending plays a big role in winning championships (it does), and on the completely irrelevant point about Rinne, I said he was a huge reason they got to the finals (he and the defense were). He wasn't at the top of his game in the finals. I never stated he was. I made the point that Murray was, and that's reality. The Preds couldn't score, and thus, it wouldn't matter how good Rinne was either way. Jesus christ. One idiot can't read, and the rest of you follow him off the cliff. I expect it from Mikey, the king of adjusting goalposts to suit his argument, but the rest of you should probably read for yourselves

 

[thewave]

Grumpy...... it is largely accepted that rinne was inadequate/poor/poop/bad/horrible and largely at fault for them losing that series. Don't be grumpy because I uncovered the holes in this "omg we need god tier goaltending" argument.

He did not have the best series. He was not up to the task.

 

[67Cup]

I think Ernie is right about the point he has been trying to make. We have a goalie who looks like a solid number one, signed at a price that won't cripple the team, and locked up for another four years.. Now is the time to invest in some young goalie prospects who might just develop into valuable assets, either to play for the Leafs or to trade. Most of them won't make it but neither do most skaters drafted in the 3rd, 4th or 6th rounds, which is where the Leafs have drafted goalies recently.

 

[Bullseye]

I think Ernie is right about the point he has been trying to make. We have a goalie who looks like a solid number one, signed at a price that won't cripple the team, and locked up for another four years.. Now is the time to invest in some young goalie prospects who might just develop into valuable assets, either to play for the Leafs or to trade. Most of them won't make it but neither do most skaters drafted in the 3rd, 4th or 6th rounds, which is where the Leafs have drafted goalies recently.

Yup, nicely stated. Why not drafted a goalie instead of a Walker, Korostelev etc - makes sense...

 

[NarcoPolo]

I'm confused. One poster suggests that buying an average starter for a 1st is fine by him, yet suggests to another poster that picking a goalie's in the draft (more likely with mid round picks) is a waste of resources? I'd much rather spend a 3rd/4th every year or two on a goalie in the draft then to use 1st round picks to address the position..

 

[ErnieLeafs]

I'm confused. One poster suggests that buying an average starter for a 1st is fine by him, yet suggests to another poster that picking a goalie's in the draft (more likely with mid round picks) is a waste of resources? I'd much rather spend a 3rd/4th every year or two on a goalie in the draft then to use 1st round picks to address the position..

Exactly. And you're bound to develop a few good goalies through this process, and so you'll have a system of internal replacement that allows for maximum usage of valuable picks and prospects.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Yup, nicely stated. Why not drafted a goalie instead of a Walker, Korostelev etc - makes sense...

I would make that Korostelev pick 10/10 times. Just sucks that everything that could go wrong for him went wrong for him, especially his injuries.

Walker pick was a head scratcher. Even with his speed and stuff, he was not really anything special as a D+2 draftee. There were better guys too.

 

[Mikeyg]

Looks like nobody is agreeing with you grumpy. Rinne is paid like a top tier goalie, but as soon as adversity struck he crumbled and cost the preds the cup. Average starter for average pay beats overpaid choke artists any day of the week. Take that cap savings and spend it on depth d, much better.

 

[Mikeyg]

I'm confused. One poster suggests that buying an average starter for a 1st is fine by him, yet suggests to another poster that picking a goalie's in the draft (more likely with mid round picks) is a waste of resources? I'd much rather spend a 3rd/4th every year or two on a goalie in the draft then to use 1st round picks to address the position..

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. The odds of drafting a murray are at best 1 in 100. Grunpy's argument is a horrible one. He isnt just talking about drafting a starting goalie, hes talking about drafting one that can play at a championship level as a rookie. The odds say that it is extremely irresponsible to spend that many assets fishing for that dream scenario. 10 times out of 10 its better to just pay a first and get an average starter. I'm sorry but the 30th ova pick and a second rounder for av average to above avg starter is a totally fine price to pay.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. The odds of drafting a murray are at best 1 in 100. Grunpy's argument is a horrible one. He isnt just talking about drafting a starting goalie, hes talking about drafting one that can play at a championship level as a rookie. The odds say that it is extremely irresponsible to spend that many assets fishing for that dream scenario. 10 times out of 10 its better to just pay a first and get an average starter. I'm sorry but the 30th ova pick and a second rounder for av average to above avg starter is a totally fine price to pay.

You honestly cannot read nor comprehend what you can manage to make out. Nobody is ****ing talking about Rinne. Literally NOBODY but you.

Second, I never said anything about drafting a goalie to win us a cup as a rookie. You're putting that down as if I did. I didn't. I said (multiple times now) that we should get a goalie pipeline started from the junior ranks and overseas, and allow them to take their time developing, now that we have our goalie locked in for 4 years. We're bound to hit on a few, and they can be used either as internal replacements, or trade chips.

Again, you act like you're twelve years old with the namecalling. Shouldn't be surprised a petulant little twenty-something hasn't the slightest clue how to act and converse like an adult. Must be in your genetics.