Recalled/Assigned: Leafs call up Moore

[deletethis]

You cannot swear and curse at millionaires, just my personal impression. Friedman is the first to bring this out, and its going to grow.

Swearing at millionaires never works, trust me on that one.

That is dinosaur 101. Passe and done.

Show me a professional team that loves its coach because he takes it easy on them and I guarantee it's a terrible team.

 

[Liminality]

Willy ain't here for a reason and its NOT money. Not in my opinion.

Micheal Nylander might get credited at some point for winning us a Stanley Cup. All I guess I can say.

I have to say, I always sorta liked Elliott Friedman, but now I quite like him.

I think this is the golden boy of Tanenbaum. I bask in the glow, that I believe, that Babcock is done.

Gone. And done.

I know it must be hard for you at times and that you need to spew your verbal diarrhea anywhere and everywhere but at least try to keep it in the right thread.

 

[GoldenGOOSE]

I have won on a father, marriage and entrepreneurial level thank you. All love there. But this team?

Shanahan made one huge blunder and that was bringing in a guy worse than Keenan, into Toronto.

End of story.

You can create the next ten chapters yourself.

Yeah, Dubas might get Nylander to cave in, but that will create a media frenzy, best thing for Willy is to play KHL and avoid the circus.

Think like a father for one second, you, as Micheal Nylander, want to thrust Willy into this vortex?

Nah, you go Europe or KHL. And avoid Babcock. And the circus.

Micheal Nylander was a pi9neer, he challenged the circus.

 

[GoldenGOOSE]

Trade Willy to Buffalo, most humane thing to do. Let him play with Alexander. All they are trying to do, is be normal. Being a Leaf ain't normal.

 

[Gallagbi]

So what would you do? What are your actual thoughts and sollutions? I am all ears. Maybe go over 140 characters for once, cripes.

My thoughts are posted in the first response - Brown's been better. His job is to play solid defensively, PK, win battles and chip in offensively. He's done all of those well except the offense.

Leivo is here for offense, which hasn't been there. He can't PK, can't create sustained pressure and isn't good defensively.

So you have an offensive player in Leivo bringing nothing vs a player like Brown bringing similar offense with much better everything else.

Look at that, no mention of video games, Kapanen or Bozak. Almost like they are irrelevant to the point and do nothing but make you look stupid.

 

[ULF_55]

He isn't an NHL player. Let Bracco get a sniff. Really worried that Babcock is going to rule this team and run it into a team of plugs sociopath style. The man has a vision and is on a mission.

Please Kyle trade the pets. I know if you go against Babcock he will use the replacements in the absolute worst way to prove a point though. We all know this guy now.

They should be giving Bracco a sniff on the Marlies.
With Moore gone maybe they'll give him that opportunity now if he's earned it.

He's 16th. in scoring on the Marlies, he needs to be put on an offensive line so he can show what he can bring.

We have to be patient with these guys. https://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-s-final-ranking-mcdavid-eichel-and-1.300634

 

[ToneDog]

He isn't an NHL player. Let Bracco get a sniff. Really worried that Babcock is going to rule this team and run it into a team of plugs sociopath style. The man has a vision and is on a mission.

Please Kyle trade the pets. I know if you go against Babcock he will use the replacements in the absolute worst way to prove a point though. We all know this guy now.

I'd bring up Engvall before Bracco. We need another (being generous when I say another) banger rather than another smurf.

 

[TheGreatOne11]

I have won on a father, marriage and entrepreneurial level thank you. All love there. But this team?

Shanahan made one huge blunder and that was bringing in a guy worse than Keenan, into Toronto.

End of story.

You can create the next ten chapters yourself.

Yeah, Dubas might get Nylander to cave in, but that will create a media frenzy, best thing for Willy is to play KHL and avoid the circus.

Think like a father for one second, you, as Micheal Nylander, want to thrust Willy into this vortex?

Nah, you go Europe or KHL. And avoid Babcock. And the circus.

Micheal Nylander was a pi9neer, he challenged the circus.

Hockey is a business. Dubas will do what's best for the team, not what's best for Willy, so no he will not be traded to Buffalo, if he can't handle the vortex then maybe he should have played womens basketball instead.

 

[thewave]

My thoughts are posted in the first response - Brown's been better. His job is to play solid defensively, PK, win battles and chip in offensively. He's done all of those well except the offense.

Leivo is here for offense, which hasn't been there. He can't PK, can't create sustained pressure and isn't good defensively.

So you have an offensive player in Leivo bringing nothing vs a player like Brown bringing similar offense with much better everything else.

Look at that, no mention of video games, Kapanen or Bozak. Almost like they are irrelevant to the point and do nothing but make you look stupid.

Brown plays solid defensively but nothing more and that's the issue. He is limited in scope to only providing that one element at this point. I challenge you to follow him with a keen eye when he does not have the puck. If I break down his game into Logic in a defensive situation for example.

Start
Guard
Block
Intercept
Advance on the outside with puck
Dump
Advance
Use body to obtain puck
If possession gained move puck to support
If possession not gained retreat and repeat sequence.

Even his routes are all predictable. I think his greatest ability is to put on display what Babcock envisions. He is predictable and Babcock takes comfort in that. Creative players are not predictable and there is no comfort in them unless they routinely produce. Marner to the 4th line, Nylander to the 4th line, I mean need I say more?

Leivo is interesting. He can work the wall and see the lane. He can make the pass and how many golden passes has he made to Ennis or other who have dropped the ball? It is happening a lot. Did you know that Leivo has produced at the same clip as Kapanen on the 4th line? It's an interesting fact. Where is Leivo's shot? It's being ate by the 4th liner defensively oriented Brown is where it's at. That or Hyman sadly.

None of what I said makes me look stupid to anyone that understands what is actually going on. They understand full well the concept of plugs and being suppressed on a limited opportunity 4th line.

 

[Mess]

He isn't an NHL player. Let Bracco get a sniff. Really worried that Babcock is going to rule this team and run it into a team of plugs sociopath style. The man has a vision and is on a mission.

Please Kyle trade the pets. I know if you go against Babcock he will use the replacements in the absolute worst way to prove a point though. We all know this guy now.

Bracco ???

Sorry couldn't resist..

I don't think the plan is to replace Ennis with and even smaller and softer player..

Moore has at least been the best among the Marlie forwards this year and if anyone deserves a look it would be him on performance. Bracco is a struggling Marlie player and Moore moving UP might give him more opportunity in the AHL before he busts.

 

[thewave]

Bracco ???

Sorry couldn't resist..

I don't think the plan is to replace Ennis with and even smaller and softer player..

Moore has at least been the best among the Marlie forwards this year and if anyone deserves a look it would be him on performance. Bracco is a struggling Marlie player and Moore moving UP might give him more opportunity in the AHL before he busts.

The problem calls for creativity not a deeper level of plug sadly. Babcock is jamming the team with defensive minded 1 dimensional plugs. Give them some finish and creative freedoms and we may actually score from the depth lines. Sometimes, maybe.

 

[GardinerTheForward]

Brown has added a lot more than Leivo this year.

 

[Gallagbi]

Brown plays solid defensively but nothing more and that's the issue. He is limited in scope to only providing that one element at this point. I challenge you to follow him with a keen eye when he does not have the puck. If I break down his game into Logic in a defensive situation for example.

Start
Guard
Block
Intercept
Advance on the outside with puck
Dump
Advance
Use body to obtain puck
If possession gained move puck to support
If possession not gained retreat and repeat sequence.

Even his routes are all predictable. I think his greatest ability is to put on display what Babcock envisions. He is predictable and Babcock takes comfort in that. Creative players are not predictable and there is no comfort in them unless they routinely produce. Marner to the 4th line, Nylander to the 4th line, I mean need I say more?

Leivo is interesting. He can work the wall and see the lane. He can make the pass and how many golden passes has he made to Ennis or other who have dropped the ball? It is happening a lot. Did you know that Leivo has produced at the same clip as Kapanen on the 4th line? It's an interesting fact. Where is Leivo's shot? It's being ate by the 4th liner defensively oriented Brown is where it's at. That or Hyman sadly.

None of what I said makes me look stupid to anyone that understands what is actually going on. They understand full well the concept of plugs and being suppressed on a limited opportunity 4th line.

Well yeah, when you go to great lengths to be wrong about past positions that have no bearing on this discussion and relate to video games, you look like a fool.

I watch Brown closely, like I watch all of our players. I don't mind Leivo, Brown's simply been better for the reasons I mentioned.

Leivo started out on the same line as Brown and was dropped down. They're in different roles and Leivo hasnt played well enough to see more icetime doing what he does. Hopefully it changes, but he hasn't earned it yet.

 

[Gallagbi]

Both have had very little offensive production, one is clearly a superior defensive player and winning more battles.

It's understandable that people want more out of Brown. It's sad people aren't able to see the basics he brings. Poor guy is the new Hyman, only in the proper role.

 

[Mess]

The problem calls for creativity not a deeper level of plug sadly. Babcock is jamming the team with defensive minded 1 dimensional plugs. Give them some finish and creative freedoms and we may actually score from the depth lines. Sometimes, maybe.

Johnson was Marlies MVP >>>>> Moore >>>> Bracco

Johnson has been almost as useless as Ennis registering 0-1-1 point this year. His last game showing some flashes at least.

Leafs don't need more of the same small soft plugs, they could really use a Leo Komarov energy type player that will drag more players into the battle or someone to toss up some big hits and momentum changers.

I don't think Moore will have much of an impact other than showing some hustles.

 

[GardinerTheForward]

Both have had very little offensive production, one is clearly a superior defensive player and winning more battles.

It's understandable that people want more out of Brown. It's sad people aren't able to see the basics he brings. Poor guy is the new Hyman, only in the proper role.

Leivo is winning more battles imo brother. Leivo is producing chances that are being wasted by his linemates. Conversely, Brown is the linemate wasting chances.

Like somebody else said, Leivo’s passes have been golden. The only thing thats up with him is he is missing his target more often than usual. I would also like to point out Josh actually gives forward support unlike many other wingers.

 

[Gallagbi]

Leivo is winning more battles imo brother. Leivo is producing chances that are being wasted by his linemates. Conversely, Brown is the linemate wasting chances.

Like somebody else said, Leivo’s passes have been golden. The only thing thats up with him is he is missing his target more often than usual. I would also like to point out Josh actually gives forward support unlike many other wingers.

Leivo definitely had a good game Thursday where this was true. Sadly not over the whole year.

 

[thewave]

Well yeah, when you go to great lengths to be wrong about past positions that have no bearing on this discussion and relate to video games, you look like a fool.

I watch Brown closely, like I watch all of our players. I don't mind Leivo, Brown's simply been better for the reasons I mentioned.

Leivo started out on the same line as Brown and was dropped down. They're in different roles and Leivo hasnt played well enough to see more icetime doing what he does. Hopefully it changes, but he hasn't earned it yet.

Amazingly in all of this the Goat Leivo line has looked to be more dominant than the Brown line. Our current 3rd line at ES is a waste of time, that's all they are. They aren't creative and are not particularly good cycling the puck and running a team around in their own end. Carlyle would put it that they eat minutes. We don't really need to be eating minutes right now.

You conveniently left out the Kapanen - Leivo production bit but that's to be expected. Usage of players like Brown makes all the difference in this NHL. The -4 on Leivo if you care is mostly because of one disaster of a game and does not reflect his game.

LEIVO --- 13

1

2

3

7

-4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

BROWN ---

13

1

3

4

4

-4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[thewave]

Leivo definitely had a good game Thursday where this was true. Sadly not over the whole year.

Strongly disagree. He has been a good player all year but has been strapped with guys like Brown or Ennis etc who can not finish. He's actually one of the only bright spots on that bottom 6. Goat is doing well albeit without any finish ability. He is at least where he belongs. Lindy and Brown, not so much.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Leivo definitely had a good game Thursday where this was true. Sadly not over the whole year.

I disagree with that. I've been tracking* scoring chance generation over the season so far, and Leivo is probably among our top forwards adjusted for ice time. His last game was among the best of any forward so far.

* Big caveat in using that word. I'm not Corey Sznajder. I'm not doing a rigorous process to gather data for wide usage here. I've just taken an interest in seeing how our complementary forwards do in this regard.

 

[Gallagbi]

Amazingly in all of this the Goat Leivo line has looked to be more dominant than the Brown line. Our current 3rd line at ES is a waste of time, that's all they are. They aren't creative and are not particularly good cycling the puck and running a team around in their own end. Carlyle would put it that they eat minutes. We don't really need to be eating minutes right now.

You conveniently left out the Kapanen - Leivo production bit but that's to be expected. Usage of players like Brown makes all the difference in this NHL. The -4 on Leivo if you care is mostly because of one disaster of a game and does not reflect his game.

LEIVO --- 13

1

2

3

7

-4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

BROWN ---

13

1

3

4

4

-4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Because Kapanen has nothing to do with the discussion and I'm walking around a mall posting in between purchases. Its nots worth looking into.


Don't care about plus minus, you really need to stop making such false assumptions.

Anyways, I'll leave you to fanboy out about Leivo. Have a good one.

 

[Gallagbi]

I disagree with that. I've been tracking* scoring chance generation over the season so far, and Leivo is probably among our top forwards adjusted for ice time. His last game was among the best of any forward so far.

* Big caveat in using that word. I'm not Corey Sznajder. I'm not doing a rigorous process to gather data for wide usage here. I've just taken an interest in seeing how our complementary forwards do in this regard.

Love to see the data on it.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Love to see the data on it.

That's what I meant with the caveat. I don't exactly have quantitative data, just scribbles and notes on each player in the complementary forward group, along the lines of what I used to do in the PGTs.

 

[Gallagbi]

That's what I meant with the caveat. I don't exactly have quantitative data, just scribbles and notes on each player in the complementary forward group, along the lines of what I used to do in the PGTs.

I trust ya, substantial enough difference from Brown to ignore the gap in defensive play, usage and PK?

 

[thewave]

That's what I meant with the caveat. I don't exactly have quantitative data, just scribbles and notes on each player in the complementary forward group, along the lines of what I used to do in the PGTs.

The data you have accumulated and your eyes are not betraying you IMHO, for whatever it's worth.