LD Sean Day (2016, 81st, NYR) II

[93LEAFS]

So plenty of hockey players and people in life have gone through what Day has in a short period of time? Please site the case (S) I look forward to seeing them. You already have a bias which is evident in your post. Nothing wrong with that, jus sad that you give no credence as to what he has gone through and how that very likely has had an effect on him. You go as far to not only diminish it, but claim is commonplace. That s a juvenile and ignorant assessment.

Did I say its commonplace? No. Do I feel bad for him as a person? Absolutely, but people work through adversity all the time. For example, Boeser's best friend died last year, and another was paralyzed. There are other examples if you look for them, former Blue Jay Aaron Hill watched his mother get killed in a car crash in highschool from a separate car.

You choose to look at Day through rose-tinted glasses, and ignore these issues existed before his brother got drunk and killed someone (which was in terrible taste to put out in an article designed to get Day sympathy). Has Day had bad luck recently yes, but tons of kids in Jr hockey have close family members with life threatening illnesses (Day's mom is out of the hospital and has a manageable illness). At the end of the day he hasn't progressed in 3 years, and these issues were either known about pior to joining the OHL (lupus), or occurred part way through his 2nd season.

 

[New Liskeard]

Did I say its commonplace? No. Do I feel bad for him as a person? Absolutely, but people work through adversity all the time. For example, Boeser's best friend died last year, and another was paralyzed. There are other examples if you look for them, former Blue Jay Aaron Hill watched his mother get killed in a car crash in highschool from a separate car.

You choose to look at Day through rose-tinted glasses, and ignore these issues existed before his brother got drunk and killed someone (which was in terrible taste to put out in an article designed to get Day sympathy). Has Day had bad luck recently yes, but tons of kids in Jr hockey have close family members with life threatening illnesses (Day's mom is out of the hospital and has a manageable illness). At the end of the day he hasn't progressed in 3 years, and these issues were either known about pior to joining the OHL (lupus), or occurred part way through his 2nd season.

Which writer painted the picture of Day getting sympathy due to what happened with his brother? Is that what the writer wrote, and can you quote it please? Or is that your interpretation, and if that is your interpretation that is in extremely poor taste and classless. Here is my quote from my post, seems you didn't read it:

Im not here to make excuses for the kid, and maybe his character isn't strong enough to endure the challenges he has faced.


You are most certainly entitled to your opinion, however your back tracking and making excuses for each post is not only in poor taste but speaks volumes yet again on your extreme bias towards Day. This thread is about Day, please try to keep it on track. You cant seem to focus on the topic at hand and chose to speak to to other athletes that have had challenges. As mentioned earlier to suggest as you have, that challenges that Day has had to endure are common place is beyond ignorant and lacks any thought and reality in the post.

 

[93LEAFS]

Which writer painted the picture of Day getting sympathy due to what happened with his brother? Is that what the writer wrote, and can you quote it please? Or is that your interpretation, and if that is your interpretation that is in extremely poor taste and classless. Here is my quote from my post, seems you didn't read it:

Im not here to make excuses for the kid, and maybe his character isn't strong enough to endure the challenges he has faced.


You are most certainly entitled to your opinion, however your back tracking and making excuses for each post is not only in poor taste but speaks volumes yet again on your extreme bias towards Day. This thread is about Day, please try to keep it on track. You cant seem to focus on the topic at hand and chose to speak to to other athletes that have had challenges. As mentioned earlier to suggest as you have, that challenges that Day has had to endure are common place is beyond ignorant and lacks any thought and reality in the post.

The Damien Cox story was clearly written in a very sympathetic tone. And I never said it was common place, and your the one who brought these up, and then attacked my character for it. He was struggling before the incident with his brother, and you want to use the fact his brother drunkingly killed a grandmother taking her grandson to soccer as the reason. OHL players have sick relatives or family members they are apart from, or friends that die. You brought it up as a reason, yet Day's issues go further back than these incidents. It sure didn't help matters, but its not like these issues were non-existent prior. And its not like his antics were to play at home, he was trying to force a trade so he could hangout in London with his buddy Max Jones. I'll be ecstatic if Day can turn it around and be a great player, but I think its highly unlikely. Flat out his issues you claim to have developed after his brother went to jail, existed way before and were reasons he slipped to 4 in the draft, and had a terrible rookie year.

 

[Passchendaele]

So plenty of hockey players and people in life have gone through what Day has in a short period of time? Please site the case (S) I look forward to seeing them. You already have a bias which is evident in your post. Nothing wrong with that, jus sad that you give no credence as to what he has gone through and how that very likely has had an effect on him. You go as far to not only diminish it, but claim is commonplace. That s a juvenile and ignorant assessment.

Patrick O'Sullivan's troubled past didn't prevent him from being a top OHL player.

 

[BigD66]

I hope the Red Wings draft him. If they make the playoffs why not use their first on him? Big, fast and can shoot. He can improve on lots of things as he matures

I'm all for drafting Day in like the 3rd round, but using a first round pick that'll likely be top 20 on him?!?

 

[StatsNightHeroes]

Trust me, his work ethic is bad, and really against the culture Babs, Lou and Shanahan have been trying to create. He's been trying to force his way off the Steelheads since last year, flat out just left the bench for no reason one game and acts entitled. Luke Schenn put on too much muscle (which was a bad thing), Day showed up to the U-18 camp 30 to 40 pounds overweight, and it wasn't muscle. He seems burnt out on the game, and he never should of been given exceptional status. I also think he's a low IQ player, and not much can fix that. I'm not saying blackball him but I def don't want him taken with one of our first 4 picks. I could easily see him having an Ebert like slide.

I don't care if he is a low IQ player right now. He has every other skill that you look for in a top D prospect and has years to improve his decision making. Hockey isn't rocket science, especially when it comes to being a D who can skate and play a safe game with the puck. Maybe his attitude isn't great, but there are lots of teenagers with poor attitudes who grow out of them as they mature. You have given two issues with the guy and although significant problems right now they are both solvable. His poor hockey IQ can be sorted out by one of the best coaches in the league and a team with enough money to get him a personal development coach. He'd also have the benefit of watching Rielly play the same position in the same system with a very similar skill set to Day's to learn from. As for his attitude/work ethic, I highly doubt that the guy wants to miss out on making millions of dollars and can get inspired to put in the work. Get him the right mentor/coaching and he could be the steal of the draft. I much rather the leafs take a shot at a guy like Day than draft another Dermott/Percy/Finn/Harrington who's ceilings are a #4 D. The Leafs have an abundance of prospects and picks that are safer bets and can fill out the lineup. One swing for the fences in the 2nd round isn't going to kill the prospect pool but has the potential to fill a major hole in the organization.

 

[93LEAFS]

I don't care if he is a low IQ player right now. He has every other skill that you look for in a top D prospect and has years to improve his decision making. Hockey isn't rocket science, especially when it comes to being a D who can skate and play a safe game with the puck. Maybe his attitude isn't great, but there are lots of teenagers with poor attitudes who grow out of them as they mature. You have given two issues with the guy and although significant problems right now they are both solvable. His poor hockey IQ can be sorted out by one of the best coaches in the league and a team with enough money to get him a personal development coach. He'd also have the benefit of watching Rielly play the same position in the same system with a very similar skill set to Day's to learn from. As for his attitude/work ethic, I highly doubt that the guy wants to miss out on making millions of dollars and can get inspired to put in the work. Get him the right mentor/coaching and he could be the steal of the draft. I much rather the leafs take a shot at a guy like Day than draft another Dermott/Percy/Finn/Harrington who's ceilings are a #4 D. The Leafs have an abundance of prospects and picks that are safer bets and can fill out the lineup. One swing for the fences in the 2nd round isn't going to kill the prospect pool but has the potential to fill a major hole in the organization.

He doesn't have great vison, passing, puck control or physical game. The only thing he is truly elite at is skating, do you really want a bigger Brett Lebda? And for all the talk about how elite his skating is, he should of dominated the CHL top prospects on-ice combine, which tends to be dominated by elite skaters (for example guys like Konecny, Mackinnon, Virtanen, Ehlers, and McDavid have graded out well) and he failed to place top 5, while Chychrun graded out at 2nd best, behind Jordan Kyrou.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I don't care if he is a low IQ player right now. He has every other skill that you look for in a top D prospect and has years to improve his decision making. Hockey isn't rocket science, especially when it comes to being a D who can skate and play a safe game with the puck. Maybe his attitude isn't great, but there are lots of teenagers with poor attitudes who grow out of them as they mature. You have given two issues with the guy and although significant problems right now they are both solvable. His poor hockey IQ can be sorted out by one of the best coaches in the league and a team with enough money to get him a personal development coach. He'd also have the benefit of watching Rielly play the same position in the same system with a very similar skill set to Day's to learn from. As for his attitude/work ethic, I highly doubt that the guy wants to miss out on making millions of dollars and can get inspired to put in the work. Get him the right mentor/coaching and he could be the steal of the draft. I much rather the leafs take a shot at a guy like Day than draft another Dermott/Percy/Finn/Harrington who's ceilings are a #4 D. The Leafs have an abundance of prospects and picks that are safer bets and can fill out the lineup. One swing for the fences in the 2nd round isn't going to kill the prospect pool but has the potential to fill a major hole in the organization.

You vastly overestimate the ability to significantly improve a persons hockey IQ. There is a reason high hockey IQ players are so desirable, you can't teach it. Attitude and work ethic are also things that aren't really teachable. You can show a player the type of hard work that has to be put in and you can give examples of the type of attitude he should have, but the players has to have a high desire to change those things. Poor work ethic/attitude and poor hockey IQ are two of the biggest red flags a player can have, and are significantly harder/less likely to be improved than you make it out to be. It's kind of crazy to me how much these issues are being downplayed for day simply because his skating is great. He has a heavy shot and is a decent passer, but neither of those are elite with him and the rest of his game (beyond skating) is average at the OHL level. He's a massive risk. 3rd or later I'm fine with, not that interested in him with a 2nd. I've seen him several times this year and he's been quite unimpressive just about every time.

 

[ginopuck]

No matter where he goes he will be a top 4 dman for any team. He's a late bloomer. Some guys are great early some are great later. He's going to have a great career but will need a bit of time. Brent Burns, Roman Josi, Mark Giordano, etc.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

He's a late bloomer.

Late bloomer? He was in the OHL at age 15.

 

[93LEAFS]

No matter where he goes he will be a top 4 dman for any team. He's a late bloomer. Some guys are great early some are great later. He's going to have a great career but will need a bit of time. Brent Burns, Roman Josi, Mark Giordano, etc.

He's def not a late bloomer. Giordano didn't play in the OHL til he was 19. Brent Burns grew like 6 inches entering his draft year, and Roman Josi was probably victim of an under scouted league more than being a late-bloomer. Day has almost nothing in common with these guys, he plays in one of the most heavily scouted league in Jr Hockey with Missasauga being the easiest team in the OHL to scout due to its proximity to an International Airport, he was physically developed when he entered the OHL and finally, he started playing in the OHL at 15, and didn't move around the lower levels of JR hockey like Giordano. He has practically nothing in common with them.

As for Day, I'm actually curious how he does at the draft combine (I think its mostly useless, but is good for finding out a kids commitment). For his sake I hope he took the warnings seriously and is trying to do the best that he can, but if he shows up like he did to the Hilinka camp he will be taken off a lot of teams draft boards.

 

[LeafChief]

I've read a lot about family issues really effecting the kid this season.

I've also read that he can skate like the wind.

If he makes it to the 3rd round, I would like the Leafs to pick him up.

Not sure I'd want to use any of the first four picks on him though (unless they trade the Pitt pick for two second rounders and all of the sudden have 4 2nd rounders).

 

[93LEAFS]

I've read a lot about family issues really effecting the kid this season.

I've also read that he can skate like the wind.

If he makes it to the 3rd round, I would like the Leafs to pick him up.

Not sure I'd want to use any of the first four picks on him though (unless they trade the Pitt pick for two second rounders and all of the sudden have 4 2nd rounders).

Thing is, those issues aren't going away. His mom has a manageable but permanent auto-immune disorder and his Brother isn't getting out of jail until his ELC is up. The situation sucks, but things aren't changing. While these issues sure didn't help him, it can't be ignored that these issues were prevalent (work ethic and hockey IQ) prior to these two incidents.

 

[Passchendaele]

If I were a team's head scout, I'd probably have him ND.

How often do players actually succeed after falling off a cliff in the rankings?

John McFarland, Steven Anthony, Andrei Kuchin, Angelo Esposito, Toni Rajala.

All guys who were made out to be superstars early on and who didn't do squat in the NHL.

 

[Spade]

If I were a team's head scout, I'd probably have him ND.

How often do players actually succeed after falling off a cliff in the rankings?

John McFarland, Steven Anthony, Andrei Kuchin, Angelo Esposito, Toni Rajala.

All guys who were made out to be superstars early on and who didn't do squat in the NHL.

This is a very good point. Day has done nothing this season to impress anyone, he's been just as haphazard and disinterested as he's ever been. I would be extremely surprised if even half the teams in the league still had him on their draft list, he rings all the warning bells as far as player-based reasons to fail.

A player who's stagnated in development since he was 16 is going to have to make a huge charge to catch up because if you're not getting better in such a competitive environment, you're gonna get left behind just like he has been. And quite frankly, skating is a skill that is brought by many players, Day may be exceptional at it but I don't doubt that every GM in the league would rather have a lesser skater who can actually play than a god-given skater who can't bring anything else to the table.

I don't even think he's a bad kid, but pro sports is a cutthroat business and being a nice guy doesn't mean squat when you can't play. That's just the reality.

 

[Torts]

This is a very good point. Day has done nothing this season to impress anyone, he's been just as haphazard and disinterested as he's ever been. I would be extremely surprised if even half the teams in the league still had him on their draft list, he rings all the warning bells as far as player-based reasons to fail.

A player who's stagnated in development since he was 16 is going to have to make a huge charge to catch up because if you're not getting better in such a competitive environment, you're gonna get left behind just like he has been. And quite frankly, skating is a skill that is brought by many players, Day may be exceptional at it but I don't doubt that every GM in the league would rather have a lesser skater who can actually play than a god-given skater who can't bring anything else to the table.

I don't even think he's a bad kid, but pro sports is a cutthroat business and being a nice guy doesn't mean squat when you can't play. That's just the reality.

Disagree, last 10 games of the regular + playoffs was the Sean Day everyone has been waiting for. If he played like that the past 2 seasons he'd be a sure fire 1st round pick. I know it's a small segment of the season but to say he's done NOTHING is a bit far fetched.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

No matter where he goes he will be a top 4 dman for any team. He's a late bloomer. Some guys are great early some are great later. He's going to have a great career but will need a bit of time. Brent Burns, Roman Josi, Mark Giordano, etc.

If anything he's an early bloomer...so the exact opposite.

 

[buttman*]

No matter where he goes he will be a top 4 dman for any team. He's a late bloomer. Some guys are great early some are great later. He's going to have a great career but will need a bit of time. Brent Burns, Roman Josi, Mark Giordano, etc.

I like the kid and think in the second round he has value because he should be an NHL dman with those tools. If you get an NHL dman in the second round its a good pick.

That said, he is not a late bloomer, he was given exceptional status because he was an early bloomer. Problem is he never lived up to those expectations. Still if you look at him for what he is -- an Anton Stralman type with not a lot of offence -- he's a good player. Just don't expect Bobby Orr.

 

[MS]

Wouldn't surprise me at all if he wasn't taken at all and fell completely through the draft.

Exceedingly unlikely he goes in the top 2-3 rounds. Maybe a team takes a shot with a late rounder like they did with Ebert.

 

[boredmale]

Not sure I'd want to use any of the first four picks on him though (unless they trade the Pitt pick for two second rounders and all of the sudden have 4 2nd rounders).

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/hockey/DraftTrades/Years/2016.htm

Says they only have 2 2nd Round picks(their own and Washingtons). They did have a 3rd 2nd round pick but that pick was used in the Kessel Trade.

Traded • Scott Harrington • Kasperi Kapanen • Nick Spaling • conditional draft pick (2016 first round if Penguins qualify for 2016 playoffs, 2017 first round if Penguins qualify for 2017 playoffs, else 2017 second round) (?-?) • 2016 third round pick (?-?) to Maple Leafs for • Phil Kessel • Tyler Biggs • Tim Erixon • conditional second round pick (2016 second round if Penguins qualify for 2016 playoffs, 2017 second round if Penguins qualify for 2017 playoffs) (?-?) • cash on 2015-07-01

(it should be noted the 2nd round pick in question is Pittsburgh's own pick they traded to Toronto For Winnik in 2015)

 

[MS]

I like the kid and think in the second round he has value because he should be an NHL dman with those tools. If you get an NHL dman in the second round its a good pick.

That said, he is not a late bloomer, he was given exceptional status because he was an early bloomer. Problem is he never lived up to those expectations. Still if you look at him for what he is -- an Anton Stralman type with not a lot of offence -- he's a good player. Just don't expect Bobby Orr.

Anton Stralman is one of the smartest defenders in the NHL. Sean Day is a low-IQ player at the CHL level. There is no comparison.

Day is basically the 2nd coming on Shawn Belle. A big, beautiful-skating (going forward at least) defender that is good at nothing else.

 

[cyris]

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/hockey/DraftTrades/Years/2016.htm

Says they only have 2 2nd Round picks(their own and Washingtons). They did have a 3rd 2nd round pick but that pick was used in the Kessel Trade.

Traded • Scott Harrington • Kasperi Kapanen • Nick Spaling • conditional draft pick (2016 first round if Penguins qualify for 2016 playoffs, 2017 first round if Penguins qualify for 2017 playoffs, else 2017 second round) (?-?) • 2016 third round pick (?-?) to Maple Leafs for • Phil Kessel • Tyler Biggs • Tim Erixon • conditional second round pick (2016 second round if Penguins qualify for 2016 playoffs, 2017 second round if Penguins qualify for 2017 playoffs) (?-?) • cash on 2015-07-01

(it should be noted the 2nd round pick in question is Pittsburgh's own pick they traded to Toronto For Winnik in 2015)

When that poster said first four picks they meant the two firsts and two seconds the Leafs have in the upcoming draft. And they refered to the possibility getting 4 second rounders by trading Pittsburgh's first for additional seconds.
(personally I would be much more interested in trying to move up with the Pen's pick than down, we need a high end defensive prospect not more depth)

 

[cyris]

I wouldnt like to spend a first or second rounder on this kid but after that why not?
Sure there is a high chance he is a bust but most picks beyond the 3rd round are anyway. I want my team taking risks with later picks like that. I would rather the GM takes risky picks with high possible payouts than low risk picks that could turn into low value role players.

 

[buttman*]

Anton Stralman is one of the smartest defenders in the NHL. Sean Day is a low-IQ player at the CHL level. There is no comparison.

Day is basically the 2nd coming on Shawn Belle. A big, beautiful-skating (going forward at least) defender that is good at nothing else.

Stralman was not a high IQ guy when he broke into the league. He bounced around from Toronto, Calgary, Columbus, New York, and finally Tampa for a reason. He came up as a guy wiith some size and was an excellent skater.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Stralman was not a high IQ guy when he broke into the league. He bounced around from Toronto, Calgary, Columbus, New York, and finally Tampa for a reason. He came up as a guy wiith some size and was an excellent skater.

Yeah, and the reason was, "Toronto, Calgary, Columbus, and New York were poorly managed teams".

Stralman was always an effective defender, from day 1, but since he wasn't "toolsy" so dinosaur front offices were quick to turf him.