LD Rasmus Dahlin - Frolunda HC, SHL (2018, 1st, BUF) Part 2

[Pavel Buchnevich]

 

[Halfy]

Can he make the Olympic team?

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

I wouldnt take anything that he says seriously, though

Edit: Szemberg, that is

 

[Narow]

This guy will go first overall!

 

[Juxtaposer]

I'm always curious about this, what would Dahlin need to do in order to be labeled a "generational prospect"?
Because compared to arguably the 2 best defensemen in the world he's on a whole nother tier compared to both at the same at the same age.

You want a frank answer? Not be a defenseman. Defensemen are much less easy to project. Two years in a row, highly hyped Swedish defensemen in Kylington and Liljegren have fallen hard. Now I'm a big believer in Dahlin, he's clearly on another level from Kylington and Liljegren at the same age, and I would be beyond shocked if he fell out of the top-2 (I would be shocked if he weren't selected #1, too), but the fact of the matter is this: the projection of 16 and 17 year old defensemen is much, much less linear than that of 16 and 17 year old forwards. There is a good reason why teams shy away from defensemen at 1st overall.

But let's keep going. What does Dahlin need to do to be considered generational? He needs to be above and beyond Svechnikov, for one; prospect people seem to be about 60-40 in Dahlin's favor as of now. Then he has to be above and beyond Eichel and Matthews, by consensus. Then there has to be a serious debate over whether people would take him over McDavid.

I am well-aware that Dahlin suffers from underexposure due to playing in Europe. But if he were as good as McDavid, people would be talking about it in those specific terms. There would, at the very, very least, be clickbait articles with the title "Is Dahlin as good as Connor McDavid?". There aren't.

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

You want a frank answer? Not be a defenseman. Defensemen are much less easy to project. Two years in a row, highly hyped Swedish defensemen in Kylington and Liljegren have fallen hard. Now I'm a big believer in Dahlin, he's clearly on another level from Kylington and Liljegren at the same age, and I would be beyond shocked if he fell out of the top-2 (I would be shocked if he weren't selected #1, too), but the fact of the matter is this: the projection of 16 and 17 year old defensemen is much, much less linear than that of 16 and 17 year old forwards. There is a good reason why teams shy away from defensemen at 1st overall.

But let's keep going. What does Dahlin need to do to be considered generational? He needs to be above and beyond Svechnikov, for one; prospect people seem to be about 60-40 in Dahlin's favor as of now. Then he has to be above and beyond Eichel and Matthews, by consensus. Then there has to be a serious debate over whether people would take him over McDavid.

I am well-aware that Dahlin suffers from underexposure due to playing in Europe. But if he were as good as McDavid, people would be talking about it in those specific terms. There would, at the very, very least, be clickbait articles with the title "Is Dahlin as good as Connor McDavid?". There aren't.

Regarding that last part - what you need are more HFBoards thread titles flowing around for you to know what to believe or not?

 

[Luddowich]

You want a frank answer? Not be a defenseman. Defensemen are much less easy to project. Two years in a row, highly hyped Swedish defensemen in Kylington and Liljegren have fallen hard. Now I'm a big believer in Dahlin, he's clearly on another level from Kylington and Liljegren at the same age, and I would be beyond shocked if he fell out of the top-2 (I would be shocked if he weren't selected #1, too), but the fact of the matter is this: the projection of 16 and 17 year old defensemen is much, much less linear than that of 16 and 17 year old forwards. There is a good reason why teams shy away from defensemen at 1st overall.

But let's keep going. What does Dahlin need to do to be considered generational? He needs to be above and beyond Svechnikov, for one; prospect people seem to be about 60-40 in Dahlin's favor as of now. Then he has to be above and beyond Eichel and Matthews, by consensus. Then there has to be a serious debate over whether people would take him over McDavid.

I am well-aware that Dahlin suffers from underexposure due to playing in Europe. But if he were as good as McDavid, people would be talking about it in those specific terms. There would, at the very, very least, be clickbait articles with the title "Is Dahlin as good as Connor McDavid?". There aren't.

I think the fact that he's on another level talent wise from all the prospects we've seen coming out of Sweden, and that list contains arguably the 2 best defensemen in the NHL. Hedman was hyped to the skies but Dahlin is still on another level. He isn't and will never be the freak of an athlete that Hedman was at the same age, and he's still excelling.
The comparison between Kylington, Liljegren and Dahlin is pointless seeing how none of them were even on Hedmans tier to begin with, Dahlin is a step over that tier. That's how good he is, believe me i would rather let a 17 year old get less pressure but this kid is just one of a kind.

I also believe most of the time the forward were seen as the more talented player compared to the defenseman, which is why he was picked before the defenseman. There's just been more talented forwards than defensemen.
As for the fact for the forward over the defenseman argument i seem to be one of the few who see it as the forward in those examples have always been the better prospect. And Dahlin isn't your ordinary defensemen prospect. We haven't seen a prospect of his caliber (defenseman) since a long long time which you could make an argument that he'd be exempt of the rule if it even exists.
The talent of forwards have been stronger than the talent of defenseman in short.

McDavid wasn't 100-0 over Eichel at the start of the season where Dahlin is now. And frankly, 9/10 pre-draft lists have Dahlin as no 1 over Svechnikov. Which is no slight to Svechnikov, it's just shows what a special talent Dahlin is.

No offense, but do you need other people to tell you what you know in order for it to be correct? You need click bait posts for Dahlin to achieve generational status?
Cale Makar was mentioned in articles as being a generational talent, is he a generational talent because he's gotten called a generational talent on more bigger news platforms than Dahlin?
As for the news coverage, do you really need people to tell you something for you to believe it. The hype from the media in Sweden is very high but they don't use the term "generational talent" because they likely don't know what it is. Legends, coaches, players are saying the same thing, that he isn't like anything they've seen before. They talk about how special he is. Might be because Swedish bias or they have more coverage of him seeing that he's right on their doorstep.
If the hype will start it's all dependent on the WJC, where the majority of fans will see him against non SHL comp seeing how most don't understand how the level of play he's playing at.

I mean, NHL.com among other news sources labeled Makar a "generational talent", Dahlin has gotten zero from NA media so far which pretty much says it all. No one thinks Makar is more talented than Dahlin, or am i wrong?

Laine barely got attention pre-WJC from media, why? Because he was Finnish playing in Liiga.

But let me tell you, if Dahlin were playing in the OHL people would consensually see him as generational at this point. Dahlin doesn't have the news because people look at his non fancy numbers in the SHL while forgetting the level of hockey he's playing. It's not the OHL, it's men.

Every highlight pass because highlights is crazy seeing how the fact that he alone is playing top 4 minutes for a team like Frölunda is remarkable.

But here's my question what would he have to do (play, statistics etc) in order to be labeled a generational prospects. Because he's already checked those boxes for me, i really don't know what you want him to do. Dangle through the entire team every single game, possession?
Because what he's do right now is insanity alone.

Sorry if this became a long post but i feel like i have to tell people this to frequently. I get how difficult it is (time zones among others) to watch him play. But this kid is just in short, one of a kind.
And the fact that there's a group of people still comparing him to Liljegren or Kylington just says it all. They're nothing a like, they base their game of their speed. Dahlin sets the tempo.

 

[CherryToke]

Red Wings need Dahlin otherwise they'll never rebuild. They need him more than anything.

Nucks need him more. The Wings can just draft another superstar in the 7th round.

 

[felixpettersson]

they base their game of their speed. Dahlin sets the tempo.

This.

Also, I agree with the rest, although i don't like to jinx prospects too much hehe.

I feel like if people would just watch one full frölunda game, they'd see all the little things that he does so ridiculously well - the things that the 3 points in 26 games doesn't reflect.

 

[JoemAvs]

Nucks need him more. The Wings can just draft another superstar in the 7th round.

Avs haven't had a good #1 Dman since Rob Blake...

EJ has come the closest but I don't think he has or will ever get a single Norris vote....

So yeah...

We win ...

 

[ChiefWiggum]

Can you imagine if COL gets him and puts him and Makar on the same pairing and Makar reaches his potential?

 

[ChiefWiggum]

Yeah, because for him to look like Orr he would have to be a McDavid level skater which he isn't, which is why its a very far reaching comparison. Orr was the best skater in the league. When someone lacks a player's iconic trait, I don't see how they are comparable.

There seems to be a desire to compare prospects to all-time greats here under the guise of stylistically, even when the players lack obvious traits which make the comparison very far reaching. There are a bunch of young defencemen who are more explosive skaters than Dahlin. He's still the best young defensive prospect in the world by a wide margin, but he isn't explosive like some such as Makar. He's elusive due to edge work and puck control. His game is unique, but not Bobby Orr like. And that's before even getting into how fundamentally different the game is from the mid-60's.

Like most very high-end talents, he plays like himself and in a unique style. Crosby and McDavid don't really play like anyone else before them. McDavid has Bure like traits with a more play making approach. Crosby plays a combination of skill, grit and lowerbody puck protection that I can't place on anyone else.

NOTICE how Makar is faster than Dahlin but Dahlin will go numner one (worst case 2) in a deep draft, but Makar went fourth in a weak draft? So why is Dahlin's value so much higher when Makar is faster and the game is built on speed nowadays.

SPEED IS OVERRATED. What matters is change of direction, the ability to read the play, read the movement of players and then use your skating ability to act in accordance to what the game demands.

 

[ChiefWiggum]

Auto corrected, my bad.

He has the skillset and tools, but even Karlsson and Hedman don't come close to OEL defensively.

You know theres this game called hockey you should try watching. Its pretty good

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

Can you imagine if COL gets him and puts him and Makar on the same pairing and Makar reaches his potential?

Sure, but the same thing could be said about almost every other franchise

 

[Juxtaposer]

I think the fact that he's on another level talent wise from all the prospects we've seen coming out of Sweden, and that list contains arguably the 2 best defensemen in the NHL. Hedman was hyped to the skies but Dahlin is still on another level. He isn't and will never be the freak of an athlete that Hedman was at the same age, and he's still excelling.
The comparison between Kylington, Liljegren and Dahlin is pointless seeing how none of them were even on Hedmans tier to begin with, Dahlin is a step over that tier. That's how good he is, believe me i would rather let a 17 year old get less pressure but this kid is just one of a kind.

I also believe most of the time the forward were seen as the more talented player compared to the defenseman, which is why he was picked before the defenseman. There's just been more talented forwards than defensemen.
As for the fact for the forward over the defenseman argument i seem to be one of the few who see it as the forward in those examples have always been the better prospect. And Dahlin isn't your ordinary defensemen prospect. We haven't seen a prospect of his caliber (defenseman) since a long long time which you could make an argument that he'd be exempt of the rule if it even exists.
The talent of forwards have been stronger than the talent of defenseman in short.

McDavid wasn't 100-0 over Eichel at the start of the season where Dahlin is now. And frankly, 9/10 pre-draft lists have Dahlin as no 1 over Svechnikov. Which is no slight to Svechnikov, it's just shows what a special talent Dahlin is.

No offense, but do you need other people to tell you what you know in order for it to be correct? You need click bait posts for Dahlin to achieve generational status?
Cale Makar was mentioned in articles as being a generational talent, is he a generational talent because he's gotten called a generational talent on more bigger news platforms than Dahlin?
As for the news coverage, do you really need people to tell you something for you to believe it. The hype from the media in Sweden is very high but they don't use the term "generational talent" because they likely don't know what it is. Legends, coaches, players are saying the same thing, that he isn't like anything they've seen before. They talk about how special he is. Might be because Swedish bias or they have more coverage of him seeing that he's right on their doorstep.
If the hype will start it's all dependent on the WJC, where the majority of fans will see him against non SHL comp seeing how most don't understand how the level of play he's playing at.

I mean, NHL.com among other news sources labeled Makar a "generational talent", Dahlin has gotten zero from NA media so far which pretty much says it all. No one thinks Makar is more talented than Dahlin, or am i wrong?

Laine barely got attention pre-WJC from media, why? Because he was Finnish playing in Liiga.

But let me tell you, if Dahlin were playing in the OHL people would consensually see him as generational at this point. Dahlin doesn't have the news because people look at his non fancy numbers in the SHL while forgetting the level of hockey he's playing. It's not the OHL, it's men.

Every highlight pass because highlights is crazy seeing how the fact that he alone is playing top 4 minutes for a team like Frölunda is remarkable.

But here's my question what would he have to do (play, statistics etc) in order to be labeled a generational prospects. Because he's already checked those boxes for me, i really don't know what you want him to do. Dangle through the entire team every single game, possession?
Because what he's do right now is insanity alone.

Sorry if this became a long post but i feel like i have to tell people this to frequently. I get how difficult it is (time zones among others) to watch him play. But this kid is just in short, one of a kind.
And the fact that there's a group of people still comparing him to Liljegren or Kylington just says it all. They're nothing a like, they base their game of their speed. Dahlin sets the tempo.

My dude, I did not compare Dahlin to Kylington or Liljegren. I specifically say Dahlin is on a different level. But even then, Kylington was putting up historical production for his age at 16, against men in the SHL. People on HF (particularly Swedes!) were saying that Kylington was better at 16 than Victor Hedman, that if he were playing in NA everyone would know that he was better than Hanifin, etc.

Again, I don't need you to wax poetic about Dahlin. I'm already a huge fan. What I need is for you to answer my questions.

Would you take Dahlin over Matthews and Eichel, without question? Would you seriously consider taking Dahlin over McDavid? McDavid is generational and it's only been three years since his draft year. If Dahlin isn't better than McDavid, then he isn't generational.

No one seriously had Eichel over McDavid. The only people who did were writers trying to get clicks, talking heads trying to sound different, and US-biased posters. If Dahlin were generational, there would be absolutely no question from anyone that he would go over Svechnikov, unless you think Svech is better than Eichel.

You're acting like Dahlin is some obscure prospect that no one has ever seen before except Swedes. It's only 9-10 months until his draft day and he's the prospective #1 overall pick. If you think that he hasn't been scouted extensively by real professional scouts that work for scouting agencies and NHL teams and don't post on HFBoards dot com, you're nuts. Unless you think that you know better than the pros. I'm not saying scouts are perfect, but I trust the pros to know if a 17 year old is a generational prospect or not. If Dahlin were a generational prospect, we'd know. What would he have to do to he labeled generational? Be better than McDavid.

No offense, but yeah, I need to hear from someone other than Swedish HF Boards posters that Dahlin is generational. No offense, but as someone who lives in NA and literally cannot watch Dahlin on a regular basis, yeah, I do depend on others reports to form an opinion on him. And no offense, but it's awfully rich for you to get snide about me needing to do that and at the same time suggesting that I just listen to you because you're definitely right.

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

My dude, I did not compare Dahlin to Kylington or Liljegren. I specifically say Dahlin is on a different level. But even then, Kylington was putting up historical production for his age at 16, against men in the SHL. People on HF (particularly Swedes!) were saying that Kylington was better at 16 than Victor Hedman, that if he were playing in NA everyone would know that he was better than Hanifin, etc.

Again, I don't need you to wax poetic about Dahlin. I'm already a huge fan. What I need is for you to answer my questions.

Would you take Dahlin over Matthews and Eichel, without question? Would you seriously consider taking Dahlin over McDavid? McDavid is generational and it's only been three years since his draft year. If Dahlin isn't better than McDavid, then he isn't generational.

No one seriously had Eichel over McDavid. The only people who did were writers trying to get clicks, talking heads trying to sound different, and US-biased posters. If Dahlin were generational, there would be absolutely no question from anyone that he would go over Svechnikov, unless you think Svech is better than Eichel.

You're acting like Dahlin is some obscure prospect that no one has ever seen before except Swedes. It's only 9-10 months until his draft day and he's the prospective #1 overall pick. If you think that he hasn't been scouted extensively by real professional scouts that work for scouting agencies and NHL teams and don't post on HFBoards dot com, you're nuts. Unless you think that you know better than the pros. I'm not saying scouts are perfect, but I trust the pros to know if a 17 year old is a generational prospect or not. If Dahlin were a generational prospect, we'd know. What would he have to do to he labeled generational? Be better than McDavid.

No offense, but yeah, I need to hear from someone other than Swedish HF Boards posters that Dahlin is generational. No offense, but as someone who lives in NA and literally cannot watch Dahlin on a regular basis, yeah, I do depend on others reports to form an opinion on him. And no offense, but it's awfully rich for you to get snide about me needing to do that and at the same time suggesting that I just listen to you because you're definitely right.

And this is why us "swedish posters" refer to swedish media, coaches and players and what they say about Dahlin.

 

[Tomas W]

You want a frank answer? Not be a defenseman. Defensemen are much less easy to project. Two years in a row, highly hyped Swedish defensemen in Kylington and Liljegren have fallen hard. Now I'm a big believer in Dahlin, he's clearly on another level from Kylington and Liljegren at the same age, and I would be beyond shocked if he fell out of the top-2 (I would be shocked if he weren't selected #1, too), but the fact of the matter is this: the projection of 16 and 17 year old defensemen is much, much less linear than that of 16 and 17 year old forwards. There is a good reason why teams shy away from defensemen at 1st overall.

But let's keep going. What does Dahlin need to do to be considered generational? He needs to be above and beyond Svechnikov, for one; prospect people seem to be about 60-40 in Dahlin's favor as of now. Then he has to be above and beyond Eichel and Matthews, by consensus. Then there has to be a serious debate over whether people would take him over McDavid.

I am well-aware that Dahlin suffers from underexposure due to playing in Europe. But if he were as good as McDavid, people would be talking about it in those specific terms. There would, at the very, very least, be clickbait articles with the title "Is Dahlin as good as Connor McDavid?". There aren't.

Dahlin is much more mature same age compared to Kylington and Liljegren. Kylington and Liljegren had elite skating skills, but flaws specially on defense. Dahlin is more of the complete package and more of a safe bet. He wont be a bust. Maybe someone in his draftclass end up a bigger star, but Dahlin wont fail to become an established NHLer.

 

[jimmythescot]

Avs haven't had a good #1 Dman since Rob Blake...

EJ has come the closest but I don't think he has or will ever get a single Norris vote....

So yeah...

We win ...

Uh...the Canucks have never had a #1 defenceman

 

[devilsfan35]

I can't wait to watch him dominate at the world juniors. Whoever drafts this kid will be lucky.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

A future potential Top pairing of Dahlin - Makar literally makes me drool as an Avs fan. Especially after the last decade of well below average Defense.



Dahlin will be the McDavid of Dmen IMO. The kid is just oozing talent in many different areas of the game and he still has a full year of development before he gets drafted.


Even though Svechnikov will be a damn good consolation prize(Like McDavid/Eichel draft), if the Avs were to end up finishing last and lose the lottery again I will probably cry.

 

[Rebels57]

Dahlin and Makar wouldnt play on the same pair if they were on the same team.

 

[Laineux]

If Dahlin wants to be considered McDavid level, a good start would be being the best player in Europe during his draft year.

McDavid was definitely one of the best players in the world at 17.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

If Dahlin wants to be considered McDavid level, a good start would be being the best player in Europe during his draft year.

McDavid was definitely one of the best players in the world at 17.

Forwards is just about points.

As a defenceman you have to be able to defend as well. Defencemen always take longer to develop, while forwards can hit the ground running in men's leagues (Matthews in Swiss league).

 

[lawrence]

Forwards is just about points.

As a defenceman you have to be able to defend as well. Defencemen always take longer to develop, while forwards can hit the ground running in men's leagues (Matthews in Swiss league).

or maybe just talk about Dhalin for himself instead of trying to pump him like he is McDavid's level as a dman or "generational" for once?

Dahlin and Makar wouldnt play on the same pair if they were on the same team.

i'm sure there will be times they might be put together.

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

or maybe just talk about Dhalin for himself instead of trying to pump him like he is McDavid's level as a dman or "generational" for once?

What?