LD Jesse Pulkkinen - JYP, Liiga (2023 undrafted)

[Kiekura]

Link to picture:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GCUFHTVXkAAApiq?format=jpg&name=large

Statistic and analyzers liked his game

 

[rt]

Link to picture:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GCUFHTVXkAAApiq?format=jpg&name=large

Statistic and analyzers liked his game

It’s possible they just like him because he’s tall….

 

[rt]

Pulkkinen did not have a good game today. The lows were lower and so were the highs. More mistakes that were costlier that he did less to mitigate. Was flat footed too often and puck watching too much. I will say, that disastrous go ahead goal for Germany late in the 2nd where Pulkkinen “fell”, I’m not going to fault him for. His skate got clips by the forward.

I’d be more forgiving of his inconsistency from game one to game two, especially given it’s back to back and the whole team seems in a funk, except he’s not a first time draft eligible player and I expect more from him.

Very curious to see how he responds in game 3.

 

[Jukurit]

Good game by Pulkkinen against Sweden. Getting better with every game.

 

[GordieHowYaDoin]

Good game by Pulkkinen against Sweden. Getting better with every game.

Thanks for update. Wasn't able to catch the game. I knew he would eventually settle in. Being a kid and moving to a couple clubs early in the season then going into the WJC can't be easy. Hopefully he keeps adapting and shows off his A game this tourney

 

[LeProspector]

agreed, was downright bad for the first 3 games but was real good against Sweden

 

[Kiekura]

agreed, was downright bad for the first 3 games but was real good against Sweden

Statistics shows he actually was not downright bad in first 3 games.

 

[LeProspector]

Statistics shows he actually was not downright bad in first 3 games.

And that’s why you watch the games

 

[dreadpirateroberts]

 

[Jukurit]

Wow. I like Pulkkinen and I think he's had a good tournament, but this seems surprising to me. "Best defensive results in the tournament"

 

[rt]

agreed, was downright bad for the first 3 games but was real good against Sweden

He was very good in the first game. The late penalty was nonsense. He had a really bad first period in the second game, and was below his first game standards in the other two periods. His slick stuff wasn’t working and he stopped being physical. Wasn’t great. I think the 3rd game was a good step forward and he was quite good against Sweden, as you said.

 

[JetsFan815]

Pulkkinen did not have a good game today. The lows were lower and so were the highs. More mistakes that were costlier that he did less to mitigate. Was flat footed too often and puck watching too much. I will say, that disastrous go ahead goal for Germany late in the 2nd where Pulkkinen “fell”, I’m not going to fault him for. His skate got clips by the forward.

I’d be more forgiving of his inconsistency from game one to game two, especially given it’s back to back and the whole team seems in a funk, except he’s not a first time draft eligible player and I expect more from him.

Very curious to see how he responds in game 3.

Wait... I thought you were supposed to be cheeleading this guy on the off chance that the Coyotes drafted him... or so I was told by a certain poster here

 

[Kiekura]

And that’s why you watch the games

Wow. I like Pulkkinen and I think he's had a good tournament, but this seems surprising to me. "Best defensive results in the tournament"

I have watched games. But saying he was horrendous and then stats showing he has been one of the best D usually means your eyes are lying or you dont know what you are talking about.

I personally dont think he has ”WoW amazing player!” Just from watching him playing, but he has been good. Some mistakes here and there, but that happens to everyone on this level.

There is also lots of stuff he needs to work with. His shifts are sometimes way too long, he looks gassed (might be because of that), goes way too deep on o-zone without puck and gives opponent advantage etc.

 

[Jypinmies]

Plus minus is not a perfect stat but it's not meaningless either. Pulkkinen is +4 in this tournament. Only finnish dman that is +.

 

[LeProspector]

Plus minus is not a perfect stat but it's not meaningless either. Pulkkinen is +4 in this tournament. Only finnish dman that is +.

It is meaningless.

 

[ijuka]

It is meaningless.

So what is meaningful?

 

[LeProspector]

So what is meaningful?

I think that stupid charts that go to 100 and give zero explanation are more meaningful than +/-.

Think of a stat, it’s more meaningful than +/-.

 

[rt]

I think that stupid charts that go to 100 and give zero explanation are more meaningful than +/-.

Think of a stat, it’s more meaningful than +/-.

Zero explanation?

It’s not great but it’s not zero.

EDIT: for the record, I’m NOT a charts are gospel guy. Eye test all the way.

 

[LeProspector]

Zero explanation?

View attachment 794521

View attachment 794522

It’s not great but it’s not zero.

All of that data is subjective. What you call “entry prevention” might be so different from other people. one entry prevention Can be more important than another, in one play a player is facing a 3on2, and correctly anticipates a pass and blocks the lane with his stick before the other team gains entry, while on the other The entire other team calls for a line change and one forward is supposed to go and dump the puck but is facing 5 players back where he loses the puck while trying to carry the puck in one on 5. how Do you quanitify that? You can’t by sitting at home and tracking tally’s On your notepad. That‘s why I hate them, they don’t account for the nuances of playing the game, not every situation is created equal.

 

[rt]

All of that data is subjective. What you call “entry prevention” might be so different from other people. one entry prevention Can be more important than another, in one play a player is facing a 3on2, and correctly anticipates a pass and blocks the lane with his stick before the other team gains entry, while on the other The entire other team calls for a line change and one forward is supposed to go and dump the puck but is facing 5 players back where he loses the puck while trying to carry the puck in one on 5. how Do you quanitify that? You can’t by sitting at home and tracking tally’s On your notepad. That‘s why I hate them, they don’t account for the nuances of playing the game, not every situation is created equal.

I could not agree more. We are totally on the same page. I didn’t edit my last post fast enough.

But having just read your post, that I completely agree with, I’m honestly confused.

I’m not trying to attack you, I’m trying to understand you.

I have never said I didn't stat watch. I am one of the VERY few posters on this section that admit to doing It and doing it on the regular. I don‘t try to hide it. im an excellent stat watcher though.

You claim you’re a proud “stat watcher” which I take to mean something contrary to “game watcher”. Yet you seem to really dislike stats that are either +\- or stats that are in charts. Or stats that are subjective.

I’m wondering what the stats are that you are watching to form your often quite aggressive and strong opinions? Just goals and assists, basically? Or…what am I missing?

I’m also happy to just discuss the prospects and leave individual forum posters out of this.

 

[LeProspector]

I could not agree more. We are totally on the same page. I didn’t edit my last post fast enough.

But having just read your post, that I completely agree with, I’m honestly confused.

I’m not trying to attack you, I’m trying to understand you.



You claim you’re a proud “stat watcher” which I take to mean something contrary to “game watcher”. Yet you seem to really dislike stats that are either +\- or stats that are in charts. Or stats that are subjective.

I’m wondering what the stats are that you are watching to form your often quite aggressive and strong opinions? Just goals and assists, basically? Or…what am I missing?

I’m also happy to just discuss the prospects and leave individual forum posters out of this.

Anything that leaves neuance out of it. Goals and Points are king, it shows not only are you consistently creating offence, but you‘re able to finish it off as well. Date of birth is a big one also, if you‘re a late birthday you have less runway to develop unless you’re keeping up with the best players in your birthyear. Last one is size, I am a big proponent for size, but not guys that have massive deficiencies in their games that are going to be hard to play overcome. Skating and IQ are the big ones.
Watching the games and getting the read on players with an unbiased POV is the holy grail. It shows you that a player like Dumais could just be a junior scorer, and that a player like Tyson Hinds could be a very good NHL shutdown defender.

 

[Jypinmies]

Anything that leaves neuance out of it. Goals and Points are king, it shows not only are you consistently creating offence, but you‘re able to finish it off as well. Date of birth is a big one also, if you‘re a late birthday you have less runway to develop unless you’re keeping up with the best players in your birthyear. Last one is size, I am a big proponent for size, but not guys that have massive deficiencies in their games that are going to be hard to play overcome. Skating and IQ are the big ones.
Watching the games and getting the read on players with an unbiased POV is the holy grail. It shows you that a player like Dumais could just be a junior scorer, and that a player like Tyson Hinds could be a very good NHL shutdown defender.

Assists don't have neuance to them? Yes they prove that you can consistently create offence, just like +- proves you are consistently on the ice when your team scores.

 

[ijuka]

I think that stupid charts that go to 100 and give zero explanation are more meaningful than +/-.

Think of a stat, it’s more meaningful than +/-.

I didn't ask for "more meaningful", I asked you what's meaningful. You just earlier said that those charts aren't meaningful either, so don't use them as an example.

As for your likely reply "my eyes" keep in mind that they might convince you, but they're not very likely to convince others.


On plus/minus itself, 5on5 goal differential is a meaningful stat. The main issue with +/- is that it favors defensive players due to how power play / empty net play affects it.

However, in order to dismiss the stat, you should indeed refer to power play or empty net play having influenced it. If they haven't, then it's a very meaningful stat.

Of course, few stats are going to be extremely meaningful in a tournament with just 5 games played, but that goes for any stat. Corsi and fenwick tend to do best with such sample sizes.

 

[LeProspector]

Assists don't have neuance to them? Yes they prove that you can consistently create offence, just like +- proves you are consistently on the ice when your team scores.

Notice how I didn’t say assists.

Either way that doesn’t matter, you’re purposefully diverting the conversation. +/- is useless and is only a stat people use when they try to drive a narrative.

 

[rt]

Notice how I didn’t say assists.

Either way that doesn’t matter, you’re purposefully diverting the conversation. +/- is useless and is only a stat people use when they try to drive a narrative.

One nice thing about +/- is that everyone deals with the same limitations of the stat. It’s not a great stat but it’s universal, at least. So when comparing guys on the same team, over the same games, over the course of the same tournament, it becomes slightly more meaningful.