LD Bowen Byram - Vancouver Giants, WHL (2019, 4th, COL)

[S E P H]

So wait, knowledgeable and well-respected hockey men and scouts alike rave about Byram being a high-end, top-pairing D yet posters on HF Boards are trashing him? Yeah, I'll stick with the pro opinions on this one... especially since my own eye test tells me Byram is a flat-out stud. And I'm a Flyers fan with no skin in the game here.

Well respected hockey men and scouts picked Pavel Brendl 4th overall and Nail Yakupov 1st overall among a list of many other names.

 

[Boxscore]

Well respected hockey men and scouts picked Pavel Brendl 4th overall and Nail Yakupov 1st overall among a list of many other names.

Some did, many didn't. Both Brendl and Yakupov were polarizing prospects... scouts and hockey people either loved them or hated them, especially Brendl. The knock on Brendl from day one was his laziness and penchant for floating or taking nights off at a time. Yakupov's hockey IQ was being questioned up to draft day. They were never slam-dunk, can't-miss prospects.

Byram is more comparable to Niedermayer, Rielly and Provorov, in terms of how they were being talked about by scouts during their draft days. Byram doesn't have one fatal flaw in his game the way Yakupov and Brendl did... he's extremely well-rounded.

 

[Zaddy]

So wait, knowledgeable and well-respected hockey men and scouts alike rave about Byram being a high-end, top-pairing D yet posters on HF Boards are trashing him? Yeah, I'll stick with the pro opinions on this one... especially since my own eye test tells me Byram is a flat-out stud. And I'm a Flyers fan with no skin in the game here.

I haven't read this thread too closely but are people really "trashing him"? Or are you considering me one of those guys because I pointed out a couple of flaws in his game? I'm pretty critical when it comes to prospects these days because the reality is that very, very few of them ever reach their ceiling or projected potential. Their hype is never as big as during their draft years. Making the NHL in itself is very hard, becoming a good player even harder and becoming a star/superstar is incredibly tough and few who does, so I think that being critical of a prospect or pointing out certain areas which may pose a problem in the NHL is very different from "trashing" a prospect. A trashing would be something more like "This guy sucks and will never make it", and I personally haven't read those comments in this thread, but again I haven't looked too closely.

Some did, many didn't. Both Brendl and Yakupov were polarizing prospects... scouts and hockey people either loved them or hated them, especially Brendl. The knock on Brendl from day one was his laziness and penchant for floating or taking nights off at a time. Yakupov's hockey IQ was being questioned up to draft day. They were never slam-dunk, can't-miss prospects.

Byram is more comparable to Niedermayer, Rielly and Provorov, in terms of how they were being talked about by scouts during their draft days. Byram doesn't have one fatal flaw in his game the way Yakupov and Brendl did... he's extremely well-rounded.

Jesse Puljujärvi is a good example of a player who was unanimously loved by the scouting community and seen as a surefire guy and someone who projected pretty much as an elite 1st line winger. There was one certain poster on these boards who disagreed with this notion and saw him as a complementary 1st line winger at best. Needless to say this poster was ridiculed by nearly everyone. I'm sure there are many other examples of this too. Also btw I'm not comparing Pulju to Byram in any way, shape or form or saying that he will bust at all, it was just an example of a guy the scouting community raved about.

Sometimes the scouting community just fall in love with a guy because of his tools (and this is especially prevalent with guys who are both big and can skate) or whatever it may be and no one really takes a closer or more critical look at some of the issues in their game. Some prospects also live off their hype from an international tournament for a very long time. The scouting community is in many ways a hive-mind and very few step outside the comfort zone and challenge the status quo. Some do it and get ridiculed, sometimes rightly so because it's obvious that it's just for clicks, sometimes they actually back up their opinion with a solid stance on why they feel a certain way, and that's something I have no issues with and I think would be healthy to see a lot more of and something I've personally been doing a lot this past season. Really trying to be critical on guys and then back it up with a solid in-depth explanation and video evidence of why I have said stance. With today's technology and all the shift-by-shift videos out there it's not like it's hard to do.

HF boards actually work a lot like the scouting community with this hive-mind mentality and it doesn't help when HF in many ways blindly follows what the scouting publications say and ridicule someone who disagree with these scouts or media guys.

Also one more thing I want to mention is that a trend that you'll notice is that VERY few of the scouting publications are actually critical of any of the prospects they rank. The vast bulk of the scouting reports they provide is positive stuff about the player, they may make some offhand comment about skating needing to be worked on or that they need to get stronger but generally speaking these scouting reports does not take a very critical stance at all, and it's actually easy to understand why as their job is to hype the draft and get people interested in it.

If all they did was break down every prospect and look at their weak points then people wouldn't get excited, but if they think someone (like Byram for instance) is a future #1D and has that stud potential, then naturally people will get excited, especially as with Byram being a Canadian and playing in the CHL. The scouts (and especially media guys) love to build these narratives.

 

[Zaddy]

Serious questions. In your opinion,

Are the issues you identified fixable with additional development?

What do you think Byram tops out as? Why?

Would you take Broberg over Byram? Why or why not?

Here's the thing. The Avs have the luxury of not rushing Byram into the NHL and giving him every opportunity to develop his full potential. Helping him do whatever he needs to achieve that is my goal. The decisive factor for me ultimately comes down to whether he would get enough minutes every night to work on issues to his game. The speed of the game, the ability to leverage himself in scrums against the boards, etc. There will be an adjustment for certain.

Between Rosen Timmins, Connauton, Graves and if necessary, Alt, the D is covered on the third pair until Cole returns regardless of whether Byram is back in the WHL or elsewhere.

Yes I think Byram's issues are absolutely fixable. Defensive game and skating are two of the areas that are the most improvable generally speaking when it comes to prospects. For Byram I think it's actually even more about him moving his feet and being engaged and proactive than that he is terrible at either of those skills. He just has these habits of not really bothering to retrieve pucks, or get into a good position to receive a pass from his D partner, or just in general be lazy around the boards or around the net and losing battles far too easily.

He also takes too long to make decisions with the puck sometimes and one of the things I'm most worried about is that he is not much of an outlet passer at all, which is a critical skill for a modern-day NHL defenseman. He is great at rushing the puck, but passing? Not so much. That's one of the parts I like the least about his game actually because for anyone who knows me, there's nothing I love more than defenseman who a) can really skate/is mobile and b) can really pass the puck. I consider those two probably the most critical skills for a defenseman to have in the NHL today (along with hockey IQ, of course).

I have no idea what Byram tops out as. I'm definitely not agreeing with the view that he's this surefire (or as close to as a prospect can be) #1D type. I think he's more likely a solid 2nd pairing guy who is mostly used in an offensive role and puts up a ton of points because of his skill in the offensive zone. I could be wrong, time will tell.

I would not take Broberg over Byram at this point in time. Broberg is one of those guys who is big and skates really well but doesn't really do anything else at a great level. Byram is not the same skater but he has a lot more substance to his game and if nothing else I think he'll be a productive offensive d-man in the NHL.

 

[Avaholic29]

Some of the takes in here are terrible. There has been zero indications that Byram is overrated and would likely fall in future redrafts. Terrible takes, clear cut best dman in the class and will haunt hawks fans in the future. Reminds me of heiskanen

 

[flyfysher]

Yes I think Byram's issues are absolutely fixable. Defensive game and skating are two of the areas that are the most improvable generally speaking when it comes to prospects. For Byram I think it's actually even more about him moving his feet and being engaged and proactive than that he is terrible at either of those skills. He just has these habits of not really bothering to retrieve pucks, or get into a good position to receive a pass from his D partner, or just in general be lazy around the boards or around the net and losing battles far too easily.

He also takes too long to make decisions with the puck sometimes and one of the things I'm most worried about is that he is not much of an outlet passer at all, which is a critical skill for a modern-day NHL defenseman. He is great at rushing the puck, but passing? Not so much. That's one of the parts I like the least about his game actually because for anyone who knows me, there's nothing I love more than defenseman who a) can really skate/is mobile and b) can really pass the puck. I consider those two probably the most critical skills for a defenseman to have in the NHL today (along with hockey IQ, of course).

I have no idea what Byram tops out as. I'm definitely not agreeing with the view that he's this surefire (or as close to as a prospect can be) #1D type. I think he's more likely a solid 2nd pairing guy who is mostly used in an offensive role and puts up a ton of points because of his skill in the offensive zone. I could be wrong, time will tell.

I would not take Broberg over Byram at this point in time. Broberg is one of those guys who is big and skates really well but doesn't really do anything else at a great level. Byram is not the same skater but he has a lot more substance to his game and if nothing else I think he'll be a productive offensive d-man in the NHL.

Thanks for taking the time to explain your point of view. It will give me something to observe when I go to games. However, I don't think the Avs are going to be adversely affected by Byram's alleged lack of passing ability because Barrie wasn't this great passing wizard either. Makar and Girard OTOH!

 

[Jives]

What is his ceiling for point totals in 3 to 7 years? Is he capable of 40 points? 70 points?

 

[flyfysher]

Sometimes the scouting community just fall in love with a guy because of his tools (and this is especially prevalent with guys who are both big and can skate) or whatever it may be and no one really takes a closer or more critical look at some of the issues in their game. Some prospects also live off their hype from an international tournament for a very long time. The scouting community is in many ways a hive-mind and very few step outside the comfort zone and challenge the status quo.

I never played and consequently there are many aspects of the game, playing, coaching, etc. that I will never get. So much of drafting is an educated guess as much as anything else. However, we have many posters on the Avs board that are very knowledgeable so I take what I read with a grain of salt no matter the source. For example, one poster on the Avs board always wants to include Jost in a trade proposal. I think he's dead wrong because what I'm seeing of his criticisms just doesn't pass my eye test.

Anyway, with regard to your observations, people said the same thing about Johnson. Namely that he didn't move his feet and consequently appeared to be disengaged.

Having the time to make a decision in the NHL is a different matter and is, IMHO, the more difficult area for some prospects to handle. I think that is one thing that held Jost back initially and I saw very improved play on his end towards the end of last year. So I remain hopeful.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Some of the takes in here are terrible. There has been zero indications that Byram is overrated and would likely fall in future redrafts. Terrible takes, clear cut best dman in the class and will haunt hawks fans in the future. Reminds me of heiskanen

Byram is underrated if anything.

Here’s my take on Byram fwiw First Look: Bowen Byram - Burgundy Rainbow

Go back and read the Makar thread on this board if y’all want some bad takes too.

 

[AmericanDream]

I can see this thread aging well.....

 

[Avaholic29]

Byram is underrated if anything.

Here’s my take on Byram fwiw First Look: Bowen Byram - Burgundy Rainbow

Go back and read the Makar thread on this board if y’all want some bad takes too.

Great article bro, was a good read and I couldn't agree more

 

[Foppberg]

Great article bro, was a good read and I couldn't agree more

It's broette you animal.

 

[Avaholic29]

It's broette you animal.

Oops.. that's embarassing, time to go back to neutral terms lol

 

[S E P H]

Just toying with Vegas, looks amazing out there.

 

[golgoXIII]

Hope he make the NHL this year playing 82 games 8-12 minutes with some 2nd PP time . I realy like Byram, smooth operator style of player great pick by the Nordiques ...... euuuhhh Avs

 

[howboutahug]

Looked like a man amongst boys today at the rookie showcase game.

 

[grentthealien]

How has he looked through camp and the 1st preseason game? Is he expected to make the team? This is the guy I wanted my Canucks to draft so badly, but our pick was no where close to where he was selected.

 

[S E P H]

How has he looked through camp and the 1st preseason game? Is he expected to make the team? This is the guy I wanted my Canucks to draft so badly, but our pick was no where close to where he was selected.

Gotta be honest, he was pretty terrible in his first preseason game, but there were zero NHLers playing in that game besides Jost. The problem was that he was too nervous when he had the puck, he kept trying to give it to a teammate than be more of a catalyst. For example, he was QBing a 5v3 and pretty much killed it due to his reluctance to shoot the puck.

He's playing again tonight with a very NHL heavy team so this might showcase more he can do if he's surrounded by better players.

 

[S E P H]

Gotta admit, it's been pretty disappointing in the way he's playing. He's doing a lot of good out there and is still fine in the long-run, but no chance he's going to make the NHL if he continues playing as he has been.

 

[Avaholic29]

Gotta admit, it's been pretty disappointing in the way he's playing. He's doing a lot of good out there and is still fine in the long-run, but no chance he's going to make the NHL if he continues playing as he has been.

Damn, was hoping to hear some good news about tonights game.

 

[EXTRAS]

Yeah he was bad and not living up to expectations.

 

[Kcb12345]

He doesn't have a shot at the Avs lineup this reason right? He's definitely not ready just yet

 

[EXTRAS]

He doesn't have a shot at the Avs lineup this reason right? He's definitely not ready just yet

No chance, imo.

 

[Hostile Offer]

It's nothing to be worried about if a kid isn't ready to be an NHL level dman at 18. Dahlin and Heiskanen have blinded everyone with the way they came into the NHL as teenagers and just dominated at times. The expectations on Byram have gone out of control, he will be fine even if he spends another year in juniors.

 

[Caldercanucks]

It's nothing to be worried about if a kid isn't ready to be an NHL level dman at 18. Dahlin and Heiskanen have blinded everyone with the way they came into the NHL as teenagers and just dominated at times. The expectations on Byram have gone out of control, he will be fine even if he spends another year in juniors.

This was a really weak draft, especially for D. Most scouts feel BB, would have been the 5th dman taken last year. He is another example of a man child dominating against boys imo.